tOfficial 2008 Football Recruiting Thread

[BillOGoods]

For those disgruntled about recruiting, I say:

1. Dantonio has done quite well with his first class. Good evidence he's actually a very good recruiter. Solid recruiter.

2. Nevertheless, I'm not sure what to make of the star system. I haven't seen any hard evidence that it's worth while. But, whether it is or isn't, we aren't going to get large numbers of four and five star guys until our Program starts to make statements that it's ready to be a top 15 program on a regular basis. So, until then, what we need to do is keep our proven talent in the Program for four or even five years. Yes, convince them early that they need to play out their eligibility---not jump to the NFL.

The only exception here, like Nike Saban says in his book How Good Do You Want To Be?, is when the player is guaranteed to be a first round draft choice. Devin Thomas, notwithstanding that he appears to have left the Program with class, should have stayed and been another senior leader. I'm not exactly sure how this would be done, but the potential stars who are going to be juniors next season and could potentially have good enough seasons to have a shot at being drafted should be schooled, now, about staying and what it means to them and this Program to stay.

I know people hate to hear it, but Bo's promise that "Those who stay will be champions," must, in some form or fashion, become a mantra in this Program. Then we neutralize the major programs that are sucking up all the four and five stars in large numbers. Man, how good would we be with the LSU offensive line? But we can have that effect at a lot of positions by keeping guys for four or five years that could have left.

When we become an established big time program, again, we can absorb the odd departures of second or third rounders that get, basically, bad or marginal advice from agents. That will be the day when we literally are reloading with equal or greater talent at very high levels, each year.

[Plate of Shrimp]

Originally Posted by BillOGoods

I know people hate to hear it, but Bo's promise that "Those who stay will be champions," must, in some form or fashion, become a mantra in this Program.

[FredLee]

Originally Posted by Michigan State Fan

What happened with Jones?

MSU is too far from home for him

[Robbub]

Originally Posted by St8 Law

NOt wigging out just being realistic. Last year we had the same thing with possibilities in Barksdale and RoJo only to be shut out and crushed. I love but I will get excited when they sign. Look at Minn list of verbals. Why can they do it to this point and not us?

Minn has 25 verbals right now...
(6) 4-Stars
(11) 3-Stars
(8) 2-Stars

They average 2.92 stars and have 1136 points. They are ranked #21 which is good for 4th in the Big-10 - RIGHT NOW. Of their 4-Stars... 2-3 of them are JUCOs and one of them is a QB that we stopped recruiting because of grade and injury issues. They've got another 2 JUCO's in there as well. In about 3 weeks, watch their classrank drop significantly as people start committing to other schools.

Basically put, if that was OUR class - you guys would be whining about the high number of JUCOs and that it wasn't a very good class.

Now, if you look at our class, we're currently ranked #43 with an average star ranking of 2.75 and 539 points but we only have 16 commitments.
(1) 4-Star
(10) 3-Star
(5) 2-Star
There are a bunch of high ranked guys still left on the board and if we get some of them and fill the class with at least Div-1 guys (not the scrubs that JLS sometimes picked up at the end to fill-holes after Plan C guys were gone), we'll be ahead of Minnesota - maybe even top-30 and 4th in Big-10.

[Heaph]

Originally Posted by AASpartan

Because he couldn't get into MSU or ASU.

You might as well post this once a day as you (and others) have answered this question a number of times. It will get asked again.

[msuferd]

Originally Posted by Robbub

Minn has 25 verbals right now...
(6) 4-Stars
(11) 3-Stars
(8) 2-Stars

They average 2.92 stars and have 1136 points. They are ranked #21 which is good for 4th in the Big-10 - RIGHT NOW. Of their 4-Stars... 2-3 of them are JUCOs and one of them is a QB that we stopped recruiting because of grade and injury issues. They've got another 2 JUCO's in there as well. In about 3 weeks, watch their classrank drop significantly as people start committing to other schools.

Basically put, if that was OUR class - you guys would be whining about the high number of JUCOs and that it wasn't a very good class.

Now, if you look at our class, we're currently ranked #43 with an average star ranking of 2.75 and 539 points but we only have 16 commitments.
(1) 4-Star
(10) 3-Star
(5) 2-Star
There are a bunch of high ranked guys still left on the board and if we get some of them and fill the class with at least Div-1 guys (not the scrubs that JLS sometimes picked up at the end to fill-holes after Plan C guys were gone), we'll be ahead of Minnesota - maybe even top-30 and 4th in Big-10.

That's probably true, but we're not coming off of a 1-11 disaster of a season where the new coach took a decent program down the tubes, are we? They're getting 10X the level of recruits they should get based on what has transpired in that program.

[BillOGoods]

Originally Posted by Plate of Shrimp

Good. So, I can conclude, therefore, we otherwise agree.

[spartanNTX]

Originally Posted by Robbub

They average 2.92 stars and have 1136 points. They are ranked #21 which is good for 4th in the Big-10 - RIGHT NOW. Of their 4-Stars... 2-3 of them are JUCOs and one of them is a QB that we stopped recruiting because of grade and injury issues. They've got another 2 JUCO's in there as well. In about 3 weeks, watch their classrank drop significantly as people start committing to other schools.

Basically put, if that was OUR class - you guys would be whining about the high number of JUCOs and that it wasn't a very good class.

And those people would be stupid. Many of our top players have been from Junior Colleges. How would you like to take away Baldwin, St. Dic, Thomas, Cobb, Burress, Banks, Julian Peterson...

[Robbub]

Originally Posted by spartanNTX

And those people would be stupid. Many of our top players have been from Junior Colleges. How would you like to take away Baldwin, St. Dic, Thomas, Cobb, Burress, Banks, Julian Peterson...

Doesn't stop people from complaining about JUCOs... I'm going to guess that Minnesota will drop down to around 35-40 when everything is said and done with recruiting.

And as far as high hopes JUCO's... how about: John Goss, Kenny Jackson, Daniel Zynn, Bobby Jones, Emory Jones, Brendon Moss, Kenny Shane, Demond Williams, Haywood Stanton, David Stanton, Jesse Cole and Ken Tinny to name just a few...?

Personally, I'd be "happy" this year with a class in the low-30's that had a ton of non-JUCO talent on the defensive side of the ball - especially one that did NOT have a high amount of attrition like the 2004 class did (which WAS highly ranked).

As we've already seen, MD appears to know how to coach. That already gives me a little bit more faith in recruiting that shear star numbers.

[Martin Spartan]

Originally Posted by Robbub

Personally, I'd be "happy" this year with a class in the low-30's that had a ton of non-JUCO talent on the defensive side of the ball - especially one that did NOT have a high amount of attrition like the 2004 class did (which WAS highly ranked).

Uh, we won't be signing more than 25? Unless you are talking rank?

[SpartyUp]

Originally Posted by spartanNTX

And those people would be stupid. Many of our top players have been from Junior Colleges. How would you like to take away Baldwin, St. Dic, Thomas, Cobb, Burress, Banks, Julian Peterson...

and that sucks

[Scully60]

Originally Posted by Robbub

And as far as high hopes JUCO's... how about: John Goss, Kenny Jackson, Daniel Zynn, Bobby Jones, Emory Jones, Brendon Moss, Kenny Shane, Demond Williams, Haywood Stanton, David Stanton, Jesse Cole and Ken Tinny to name just a few...?

Kenny Jackson never stepped foot on MSU's campus.
Brendon Moss is a Sophomore.
Kenny Shane contributed.
Demond Williams started from the get-go.
David Stanton was solid at DT.
Ken Tinney never made it through summer workouts.

I think your post proves how many JUCO's have contributed. Would you like to go through how many true freshman have never contributed in the last five years? It has to be twice or three times as many as the JUCO's you have listed.

[DantonIzzo]

Originally Posted by Scully60

Kenny Jackson never stepped foot on MSU's campus.
Brendon Moss is a Sophomore.
Kenny Shane contributed.
Demond Williams started from the get-go.
David Stanton was solid at DT.
Ken Tinney never made it through summer workouts.

I think your post proves how many JUCO's have contributed. Would you like to go through how many true freshman have never contributed in the last five years. It has to be twice or three times as many as the JUCO's you have listed.

JLS did well finding JUCO's (Ervin Baldwin, too), but you can't go to that well too often. It builds absolutely zero depth in the program.

To me, JUCO kids should fill an immediate, overwhelming need. If you don't have that and/or don't have a sure-fire kid you know won't be a problem off the field or in the classroom, why bother?

[spartanNTX]

Originally Posted by SpartyUp

and that sucks

No it doesn't. It doesn't matter.

[spartanNTX]

Originally Posted by DantonIzzo

JLS did well finding JUCO's (Ervin Baldwin, too), but you can't go to that well too often. It builds absolutely zero depth in the program.

To me, JUCO kids should fill an immediate, overwhelming need. If you don't have that and/or don't have a sure-fire kid you know won't be a problem off the field or in the classroom, why bother?

Maybe because we have had success picking up most of our NFL caliber talent that way? And why not? because it is not "cool" in recruiting circles? I could care less about that crap.

[AASpartan]

Originally Posted by Robbub

And as far as high hopes JUCO's... how about: John Goss, Kenny Jackson, Daniel Zynn, Bobby Jones, Emory Jones, Brendon Moss, Kenny Shane, Demond Williams, Haywood Stanton, David Stanton, Jesse Cole and Ken Tinny to name just a few...?=

There is no such recruit as Haywood Stanton. Ken Tinney was a prep schooler.

[spartan80]

Originally Posted by Scully60

Kenny Jackson never stepped foot on MSU's campus.
Brendon Moss is a Sophomore.
Kenny Shane contributed.
Demond Williams started from the get-go.
David Stanton was solid at DT.
Ken Tinney never made it through summer workouts.

I think your post proves how many JUCO's have contributed. Would you like to go through how many true freshman have never contributed in the last five years. It has to be twice or three times as many as the JUCO's you have listed.

Strange argument! Why would you only look at a HS player contributing his freshman year? The ideal would be for a freshman to redshirt and maybe play his third, but more likely his fourth and fifth year. I'm with Dantonio, take JUCO's ONLY when you have to, otherwise develop good HS talent. Keep in mind there's a reason they're JUCOs, they didn't have the grades or talent to be recruited out of HS. To avoid more eligibility problems that hurt the team in the recent bowl, it's probably better to get character kids who are willing to do the work in the classroom.

[spartanbychoice]

Originally Posted by AASpartan

There is no such recruit as Haywood Stanton. Ken Tinney was a prep schooler.

Haywood was a highschooler out of Louisiana.

[kgbmsu]

Originally Posted by AASpartan

There is no such recruit as Haywood Stanton. Ken Tinney was a prep schooler.

as was plaxico

[AASpartan]

Originally Posted by spartanbychoice

Haywood was a highschooler out of Louisiana.

His name was Haywood Howard

[AASpartan]

Originally Posted by kgbmsu

as was plaxico

For some reason people always remember him as a JUCO. I don't know why.

[spartan80]

Originally Posted by msuferd

That's probably true, but we're not coming off of a 1-11 disaster of a season where the new coach took a decent program down the tubes, are we? They're getting 10X the level of recruits they should get based on what has transpired in that program.

It only looks like they're getting 10x anything. High on JUCOs, with M. Gray as the QB, consider that MSU backed off Gray. Saw him in the recent HS All Star game, and he didn't look that impressive.

This is a case of apples and oranges, Minnesota has filled it's quota early, MSU still has slots to fill, why? Could it be that MSU is in on some better players who are taking their trips and will decide closer to signing day? That's the case with Nick Perry, and I'm sure others as well. Minnesota is a case of filling slots early, not pulling in a monster class the way Zook did last season. The Gophers' ranking will drop.

[Scully60]

Scout.com: Terps Working on South Carolina Linebacker

Lucas plans on making his decision sometime in February after taking all of his official visits. He’s already got visits planned to North Carolina State, North Carolina and Michigan State and is working out a date to come up to College Park.

[DantonIzzo]

Originally Posted by Scully60

Scout.com: Terps Working on South Carolina Linebacker

Lucas plans on making his decision sometime in February after taking all of his official visits. He’s already got visits planned to North Carolina State, North Carolina and Michigan State and is working out a date to come up to College Park.

Lucas and Smith are kind of longshots, but I'd love to see land at least one of them.

[spartanbychoice]

Originally Posted by AASpartan

His name was Haywood Howard

Right you are!!