tOfficial 2008 Football Recruiting Thread

[DantonIzzo]

Originally Posted by kgbmsu

If Gardiner was plan A or B we would have offered him months ago....period.

But do you know the reasoning behind that?

Exactly.

Look, the kid has been offered by Ohio State (grayshirt), West Virginia, Pitt, etc. He's obviously talented. The reasoning behind him not being offered until now is anyone's guess. For you to assume you know -- that he simply isn't big or good enough to be on scholarship -- is absurd.

[DantonIzzo]

Originally Posted by barberb6

Oh my God! So EVEN IF he wasn't a Plan A recruit, that's because we thought there were players out there that could better fit the system. Who we didn't get, for reasons I have outlined at length earlier in this thread. That doesn't mean that he isn't a GOOD player. Demens was plan A, does that mean that everyone else is crap? Jonas Gray was the plan A recruit, does that mean that Ingram is trash? NO!

barber is owning your ass, kgb.

[Island of misfit toys]

Originally Posted by spartan80

Yeah, just because Tressel & Dantonio brought in Greg Jones, coached him, gave him playing time, and he ended up a freshman AA, that doesn't mean they know what they're doing.

Oh, look at that little laughing emoticon. You owned me. You cited one example of a three star who did well, largely because of all the playing time he got (not because he has the most ability of all the other freshmen in the country backing up excellent upperclassmen). Well, I've been owned today.

[Ozymandias]

Originally Posted by '86

Oh, look at that little laughing emoticon. You owned me. You cited one example of a three star who did well, largely because of all the playing time he got (not because he has the most ability of all the other freshmen in the country backing up excellent upperclassmen). Well, I've been owned today.

And just because someone was a good player (like Snow and Banks) doesn't mean they will be a good coach.

[spartan80]

Originally Posted by DantonIzzo

Greg Jones

That's fine, but Misch is the same size as Gardiner & Jones (WAS), and I wouldn't say Misch was as good a LB as Jones. Also, Jones isn't anywhere near 205 now, and it may be the staff doesn't think Gardiner can beef up the same way Jones did.

[MSU addict]

Originally Posted by Prince Delight

Devoe Torrence supposidly had sex with a 13 year old. I don't think he will be going to college anywhere and if he does hopefully it's not at MSU.

The ages of the three girls potentially invloved were 11, 12 and 14.

[kgbmsu]

Originally Posted by DantonIzzo

barber is owning your ass, kgb.

Please. Gardiner isn't even plan C. Do you need a list of players we offered before him?? The list is rather long. Hey I'm not saying the kid isn't a good high school player but if Dantonio thought he was great prospect he would have been offered from day 1. I mean the kid is from Ohio, Dantonio's stomping ground for Gods sake.

[DantonIzzo]

Originally Posted by spartan80

That's fine, but Misch is the same size as Gardiner & Jones (WAS), and I wouldn't say Misch was as good a LB as Jones. Also, Jones isn't anywhere near 205 now, and it may be the staff doesn't think Gardiner can beef up the same way Jones did.

Bottom line: as fans, we don't know.

That's what makes these rants and temper tantrums amusing -- even moreso than a meltdown after a game. At least then, the morons on this board have actually seen the kids they bash and question play, which is low enough in and of itself.

[DantonIzzo]

Originally Posted by kgbmsu

Please. Gardiner isn't even plan C. Do you need a list of players we offered before him?? The list is rather long. Hey I'm not saying the kid isn't a good high school player but if Dantonio thought he was great prospect he would have been offered from day 1. I mean the kid is from Ohio, Dantonio's stomping ground for Gods sake.

So you do trust Dantonio's judgment and skills as a recruiter or don't? I'm so confused.

And why would tOSU, Pitt, WVU, Cincinnati etc. be interested in him if he's just a "good high school player"?

Face it: you don't know any more than any of us do, yet you're trying to connect the dots to fit your own agenda and looking like a fool in the process.

[Island of misfit toys]

Originally Posted by Ozymandias

And just because someone was a good player (like Snow and Banks) doesn't mean they will be a good coach.

C'mon dude, I'm with you. Tell me this, you don't think 17 year old kids don't drink up Harlon Barnett's stories of the NFL? You think they don't want him to be the one to tell them what they've got to do to do what he's done?

Duzzer didn't play in the NFL but I'm betting kids could get much more excited about him as a position coach than...You need to be a bad ass to have WOW power with LB recruits. I agree with you, playing in the NFL itself isn't everything. A LB coach needs to be a bad ass. He needs a wow factor. Tell me that isn't true? Tell me the positon coach doesn't matter? Yes, it's damned cold. So what's new? IIRC, most people who talk about what they want from a football program put things like 'winning' way up there on their lists. This is it, I'm telling you.

[barberb6]

Originally Posted by kgbmsu

Please. Gardiner isn't even plan C. Do you need a list of players we offered before him?? The list is rather long. Hey I'm not saying the kid isn't a good high school player but if Dantonio thought he was great prospect he would have been offered from day 1. I mean the kid is from Ohio, Dantonio's stomping ground for Gods sake.

We already have 4 LBs! SO YES! By definition he is PLAN E at BEST! So was Hill, so was Edet, so was Yourhighness, etc

[Ozymandias]

Originally Posted by kgbmsu

Please. Gardiner isn't even plan C. Do you need a list of players we offered before him?? The list is rather long. Hey I'm not saying the kid isn't a good high school player but if Dantonio thought he was great prospect he would have been offered from day 1. I mean the kid is from Ohio, Dantonio's stomping ground for Gods sake.

You don't understand how recruiting works, right? I mean, that's the only explanation for your response.

Coaches just don't offer every kid they think is the cat's pajamas. They look at how many spots they will have open, positions they need to fill and prioritize prospects accordingly. There were questions about Gardiner's size (and still are), but MSU is willing to take the chance. You know who else is? Ohio State.

If OSU likes the kid, are you saying that they're wrong because they just offered him?

[kgbmsu]

Originally Posted by DantonIzzo

So you do trust Dantonio's judgment and skills as a recruiter or don't? I'm so confused.

And why would tOSU, Pitt, WVU, Cincinnati etc. be interested in him if he's just a "good high school player"?

Face it: you don't know any more than any of us do, yet you're trying to connect the dots to fit your own agenda and looking like a fool in the process.

Well tell me something since we all don't know jack, why were you so convinced that getting Scruggs was so important to our class?? I mean you've never actually seen him play. Can't wait to hear your answer.

[barberb6]

Originally Posted by DantonIzzo

So you do trust Dantonio's judgment and skills as a recruiter or don't? I'm so confused.

And why would tOSU, Pitt, WVU, Cincinnati etc. be interested in him if he's just a "good high school player"?

Face it: you don't know any more than any of us do, yet you're trying to connect the dots to fit your own agenda and looking like a fool in the process.

I now understand how you have 25k+ posts. Thanks for providing some sanity to this board

[Ozymandias]

Originally Posted by '86

C'mon dude, I'm with you. Tell me this, you don't think 17 year old kids don't drink up Harlon Barnett's stories of the NFL? You think they don't want him to be the one to tell them what they've got to do to do what he's done?

Duzzer didn't play in the NFL but I'm betting kids could get much more excited about him as a position coach than...You need to be a bad ass to have WOW power with LB recruits. I agree with you, playing in the NFL itself isn't everything. A LB coach needs to be a bad ass. He needs a wow factor. Tell me that isn't true? Tell me the positon coach doesn't matter? Yes, it's damned cold. So what's new? IIRC, most people who talk about what they want from a football program put things like 'winning' way up there on their lists. This is it, I'm telling you.

Kids don't give a **** about "that time I played for the Super Bowl champs". They care about "that year 3 of my DBs got drafted". They would rather hear about examples of them getting guys to the NFL rather than they themselves getting there.



*the "3 of my DBs getting drafted" line is just a hypothetical

[spartan80]

Originally Posted by '86

Oh, look at that little laughing emoticon. You owned me. You cited one example of a three star who did well, largely because of all the playing time he got (not because he has the most ability of all the other freshmen in the country backing up excellent upperclassmen). Well, I've been owned today.

People with a work ethic and some ability out perform more talented people all the time. Compare Matt Trannon to Devon Thomas. Trannon was supposed to be a monster coming out of H.S. and had an average career at MSU. Thomas had to take the JUCO route, then ride the pine, and NO ONE expected what he produced this season. So how many more cases do you need?

The point is it would be perfectly logical for LB recruits to look at what the staff did this year with Jones and Gordon, and believe they'd have a chance to play early and could do very well also. If Ingram doesn't come to MSU are you going to say fire Enos because he was a QB in college?

[Island of misfit toys]

Originally Posted by Ozymandias

Kids don't give a **** about "that time I played for the Super Bowl champs". They care about "that year 3 of my DBs got drafted". They would rather hear about examples of them getting guys to the NFL rather than they themselves getting there.



*the "3 of my DBs getting drafted" line is just a hypothetical

I guess you give 17 year olds more credit for being cerebral than I do.

Even so, I can go there with you. Ted Gill has a long list of accomplishments like that. What does Tressel have?

[DantonIzzo]

Originally Posted by kgbmsu

Well tell me something since we all don't know jack, why were you so convinced that getting Scruggs was so important to our class?? I mean you've never actually seen him play. Can't wait to hear your answer.

I've said over and over again that I'm disappointed Scruggs and Jacquies Smith aren't coming, but I've also said I'm in the same boat as everyone else in that I haven't seen any of these kids play in person and it's all a crapshoot anyway, so why get worked up over a kid you know in name and video only?

Shake it off and move on. Like buying a car or a home, sometimes a better "get" is right around the corner.

[Island of misfit toys]

Originally Posted by spartan80

People with a work ethic and some ability out perform more talented people all the time. Compare Matt Trannon to Devon Thomas. Trannon was supposed to be a monster coming out of H.S. and had an average career at MSU. Thomas had to take the JUCO route, then ride the pine, and NO ONE expected what he produced this season. So how many more cases do you need?

The point is it would be perfectly logical for LB recruits to look at what the staff did this year with Jones and Gordon, and believe they'd have a chance to play early and could do very well also. If Ingram doesn't come to MSU are you going to say fire Enos because he was a QB in college?

Somebody help me here, somebody strong in sales. Somebody please attest to the extent to which emotions factor into selling.

The opportunity to play early, the new football building, yada, yada... I'll say this one more time, whereever we recognize areas where we can improve and we have the power to do so, and we don't, for whatever reason, we are ceding those inches claims are the difference between winning and losing.

If we thought Enos were a liability with players like Ingram as opposed to a RB coach like Bobby Williams, then yes, he should come under review. As it turns out, Enos is regarded as a good recruiter, Coach would have to look at the whole package.

[Ozymandias]

Originally Posted by '86

I guess you give 17 year olds more credit for being cerebral than I do.

Even so, I can go there with you. Ted Gill has a long list of accomplishments like that. What does Tressel have?

Every coach has to start somewhere. And I think Greg Jones' success this past year was a great feather in his cap. You say "well, he got lots of PT"...yeah, but so did Kaleb Thornhill. Just because you get PT doesn't mean you are gonna be as good as Jones was.

[kgbmsu]

Originally Posted by DantonIzzo

I've said over and over again that I'm disappointed Scruggs and Jacquies Smith aren't coming, but I've also said I'm in the same boat as everyone else in that I haven't seen any of these kids play in person and it's all a crapshoot anyway, so why get worked up over a kid you know in name and video only?

Shake it off and move on. Like buying a car or a home, sometimes a better "get" is right around the corner.

Good you at least admit you're a hypocrite

[Island of misfit toys]

Originally Posted by Ozymandias

Every coach has to start somewhere. And I think Greg Jones' success this past year was a great feather in his cap. You say "well, he got lots of PT"...yeah, but so did Kaleb Thornhill. Just because you get PT doesn't mean you are gonna be as good as Jones was.

Yeah well, Jesus thinks highly of good Samaritans. I was just going by the criterion of most football fans, winning.

[spartan80]

Originally Posted by '86

Somebody help me here, somebody strong in sales. Somebody please attest to the extent to which emotions factor into selling.

The opportunity to play early, the new football building, yada, yada... I'll say this one more time, whereever we recognize areas where we can improve and we have the power to do so, and we don't, for whatever reason, we are conceding those inches claims are the difference between winning and losing.

If we thought Enos were a liability with players like Ingram as opposed to a RB coach like Bobby Williams, then yes, he should come under review. As it turns out, Enos is regarded as a good recruiter, Coach would have to look at the whole package.

Who was the LB coach last year when Jones came to MSU?

[Island of misfit toys]

Originally Posted by spartan80

Who was the LB coach last year when Jones came to MSU?

Fine, I'll play along. Off the top of my head, I don't know.

I think it's pretty obvious. Even so, it's your move.

[DantonIzzo]

Originally Posted by kgbmsu

Good you at least admit you're a hypocrite

I have never once questioned this class or 's gameplan, even if we don't land our "Plan A" recruits. Disappointed? At times, sure. But I don't start making blanket generalizations and sweeping assumptions about the status of this class or the kids we have signed or offered by using words like "failure, "disaster" and other drama-queen catch phrases your ilk throws around so freely.

You've contradicted yourself and proven yourself wrong over and over again not just in this thread but countless others, yet have you ever owned up to it?