"The Book" has a less than glowing review of our 2008 class

[Randolph Junuh]

The Oakland Press: Sport Columnists

[Spartyman14]

Originally Posted by Randolph Junuh

The Oakland Press: Sport Columnists

less then glowing but I didn't think it was unfair. I think when we say it is a solid recruiting class we refer to the fact that it is building a foundation for the future not only the players but the places we got them. It's a process and is going to be here for a long time.

[MrMojoRisin]

you can't disagree with these comments


When State has knocked heads with the big boys of college football, it has not been by accident. It's when the Spartans have had talent. Lots of it, actually. When they have faltered, it has been because of a dearth in recruiting. Coaching 'em up only nets so much.

[GreenMeany]

To a certain extent, he's right. We have done better when we've had better recruits. We've also done better when we've had better coaching (as we do now). I'd have to look back and see how Perles and Saban recruited in their first couple of years. That's sort of the real comparison, isn't it? Also, that was pre-Internet. Did Perles have to contend with a recruiting environment in which recruits could go on the "hometown" website and find people asking, "Why would X come here when he can go to USC (or Alabama)?" I still found people asking that question on this site per the recruiting of people like Perry and Ingram and it stupefied and maddened me. ... Does the phrase "Shooting yourself in the foot" mean anything? Why did Plaxico Burress choose to come here? He didn't do so bad. How about Andre Rison? He did okay. Etc., etc.

[Dr. Dunkenstein]

Hiring some stud recruiters will solve the problem. Time to open up the checkbooks.

[GreenMeany]

Yeah, that too.

[GreenMeany]

P.S.: I hope Dantonio and Co. are beating the bushes for unsigned recruits. After-Signing-Day recruits are like the low rounds of the NFL draft. Picking up a few gems there can go a long way.

[SpartanRocky]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dunkenstein

Hiring some stud recruiters will solve the problem. Time to open up the checkbooks.

That's how we end up with sanctions

[Mitch C.]

Originally Posted by Randolph Junuh

The Oakland Press: Sport Columnists

A few points. The better schools can't take everyone, they don't have enough needs at each position.

There are plenty of upstarts who emerge and take kids from the top schools, whether they do it the right way is not apparent, yet.

We have seen the resurgence of Rutgers and Illinois, among others, as of late. We've seen what Butch Davis has done at UNC. and of course what Carroll has done at USC.

It begs the question, why can't MSU surge like ILL, UNC, USC or Rutgers, to name a few? It's either we don't have a good staff in place to recruit or the others are doing something we aren't, good or bad.

You make the call.

[Golfnut]

Originally Posted by Mitch C.

A few points. The better schools can't take everyone, they don't have enough needs at each position.

There are plenty of upstarts who emerge and take kids from the top schools, whether they do it the right way is not apparent, yet.

We have seen the resurgence of Rutgers and Illinois, among others, as of late. We've seen what Butch Davis has done at UNC. and of course what Carroll has done at USC.

It begs the question, why can't MSU surge like ILL, UNC, USC or Rutgers, to name a few? It's either we don't have a good staff in place to recruit or the others are doing something we aren't, good or bad.

You make the call.

Illinois is cheating.
Butch Davis is a better coach and recruiter than Dantonio.
USC is USC, and Carroll is a better coach.
Rutgers plays in a weak league, weaker now that WV will not be a factor.

[Green Forever]

Originally Posted by Mitch C.

We have seen the resurgence of Rutgers and Illinois, among others, as of late. We've seen what Butch Davis has done at UNC. and of course what Carroll has done at USC.

It begs the question, why can't MSU surge like ILL, UNC, USC or Rutgers, to name a few? It's either we don't have a good staff in place to recruit or the others are doing something we aren't, good or bad.

You make the call.

It took Schiano four years to turn Rutgers around (helped, in part, by the turnaround victory over JLS' MSU squad). Illinois is most likely cheating. And UNC??? "We've seen" Butch Davis go 4-8 in his first season at UNC, including a season-ending overtime win against that football powerhouse, Duke. Rivals ranks UNC's recruiting class at 34, compared to MSU's 47, but there's not a huge difference, quality-wise, in the 30-50 classes on Rivals.

As far as I'm concerned, Caputo "researched" his article by looking at recruiting rankings alone. Dantonio had to start somewhere, and, IMO, he's doing more to set the foundation for future success, rather than making a "flash-in-the-pan" statement (as he could've done by loading up on JC's for more immediate success).

[GoBlueFromOhio]

I am glad someone said that because I was sitting here wondering what Butch did at UNC. Now we can watch this season and see if he does something but they stunk last year.

[MrMojoRisin]

Originally Posted by Golfnut

Illinois is cheating.
Butch Davis is a better coach and recruiter than Dantonio.
USC is USC, and Carroll is a better coach.
Rutgers plays in a weak league, weaker now that WV will not be a factor.

I wouldn't write off WVU just because Rodriguez left.

[Golfnut]

Originally Posted by MrMojoRisin

I wouldn't write off WVU just because Rodriguez left.

They'll be good as long as White is still the QB. They will probably always be decent because the Big East is a weak league.

[Spartanic]

Two items:

1. Article written by Pat Caputo of the Oakland Press. Why would anyone care what this guy wrote?
2. The article is based completely on the Rivals star system assessment of the recruiting class. Caputo could probably name one recruit (4 star Fred Smith). He has in all likelihood never seen any of the other guys play.

[Nals]

Did anyone see any insight in that article at all. Basically what Spartanic said. He named off 4 recruits. It's basically a statistical analysis of a subjective of set of statistics.

[Scully60]

Originally Posted by Spartanic

Two items:

1. Article written by Pat Caputo of the Oakland Press. Why would anyone care what this guy wrote?
2. The article is based completely on the Rivals star system assessment of the recruiting class. Caputo could probably name one recruit (4 star Fred Smith). He has in all likelihood never seen any of the other guys play.

1. You guys seem to care! You're getting all bent-out-of-shape about it.

2. How many years can Dantonio go, when his classes are lowly rated by recruiting services? He seemed to do it at Cinci. with low rated classes, that achieved more on the field. But can a coach string together numerous years where he is depending on diamonds-in-the-rough? Are all the recruiting services wrong and Dantonio is right? At some point, he needs to start nailing-down recruits that are looking at ND, um. Ohio State, USC, and Alabama.

[abjordan88]

Originally Posted by Scully60

1. You guys seem to care! You're getting all bent-out-of-shape about it.

2. How many years can Dantonio go, when his classes are lowly rated by recruiting services? He seemed to do it at Cinci. with low rated classes, that achieved more on the field. But can a coach string together numerous years where he is depending on diamonds-in-the-rough? Are all the recruiting services wrong and Dantonio is right? At some point, he needs to start nailing-down recruits that are looking at ND, um. Ohio State, USC, and Alabama.

You can't really expect him to do that after his first year as coach. JLS basically ran this program into the ground and its gonna take a while to repair all that damage. The only way MSU will start actually competing with those powerhouses for recruits is if they can prove they can consistently win games on the field, simple as that.

[DantonIzzo]

Originally Posted by Golfnut

Illinois is cheating.
Butch Davis is a better coach and recruiter than Dantonio.
USC is USC, and Carroll is a better coach.
Rutgers plays in a weak league, weaker now that WV will not be a factor.

Well he did prove that in his first season at UNC, so that point goes without saying.

[spartan80]

Originally Posted by GreenMeany

To a certain extent, he's right. We have done better when we've had better recruits. We've also done better when we've had better coaching (as we do now). I'd have to look back and see how Perles and Saban recruited in their first couple of years. That's sort of the real comparison, isn't it? Also, that was pre-Internet. Did Perles have to contend with a recruiting environment in which recruits could go on the "hometown" website and find people asking, "Why would X come here when he can go to USC (or Alabama)?" I still found people asking that question on this site per the recruiting of people like Perry and Ingram and it stupefied and maddened me. ... Does the phrase "Shooting yourself in the foot" mean anything? Why did Plaxico Burress choose to come here? He didn't do so bad. How about Andre Rison? He did okay. Etc., etc.

Plaxico came from either a prep school or military academy for academic reasons, and MSU was one of the few schools working with kids in that situation, and helping them get eligible.

You must be kidding about the Perry comment. You must think Perry, Ingram, Pryor are all so dumb that if people on this board didn't point out that USC has major environmental advantages over E.L. in January, and a better recent success on the field, those kids wouldn't be able to figure that out by themselves!

[Spartanic]

Originally Posted by Scully60

1. You guys seem to care! You're getting all bent-out-of-shape about it.

Yeah, I'm really "bent-out-of-shape" about it. No kidding. You really caught me on that one. Good job.

Originally Posted by Scully60

2. How many years can Dantonio go, when his classes are lowly rated by recruiting services? He seemed to do it at Cinci. with low rated classes, that achieved more on the field. But can a coach string together numerous years where he is depending on diamonds-in-the-rough? Are all the recruiting services wrong and Dantonio is right? At some point, he needs to start nailing-down recruits that are looking at ND, um. Ohio State, USC, and Alabama.

How many years? Got me. Probably as long as the recruiting services want to keep rating his classes low. That's just my guess though.

BTW, Hoover, Smith and Burrell were all recruited by um and other schools. Do they count?

[Scully60]

Originally Posted by abjordan88

You can't really expect him to do that after his first year as coach. JLS basically ran this program into the ground and its gonna take a while to repair all that damage. The only way MSU will start actually competing with those powerhouses for recruits is if they can prove they can consistently win games on the field, simple as that.

See South Carolina, Minnesota, Alabama, Notre Dame, Illinois, Florida, etc.

[abjordan88]

Originally Posted by Scully60

See South Carolina, Minnesota, Alabama, Notre Dame, Illinois, Florida, etc.

Alabama, Notre Dame, and Florida are all traditional football powerhouses with a much better tradition of winning than we do. No comparison there. South Carolina Steve Spurrier... Illinois Ron Zook... two of the better recruiters in college football. And apparently Tim Brewster is no slouch either.

Dantonio is not the kind of guy who's gonna be able to sell the Spartan program to top tier talent right away. He is going to be straightforward with the recruits and tell them that they're trying to build something up. He's not going to promise them immediate playing time either, he'll probably tell them that they're going to have to compete for a spot like everyone else on the team.

Once Dantonio has actually built a stable program with these "mid-level" recruits, 4 and 5 star recruits will start to give us a much harder look, and I think that trend is already underway a little bit for next year's class.