So as of today MD has locked up

[Michigan State Fan]

Originally Posted by nicho197

Spencer is top wr, jackson is top athlete because that is what schools are recruiting him as.

That makes sense. However, I've heard Cameron Gordon is ranked higher than Spencer. Is there any truth to this?

[SpartanFan81]

Originally Posted by Michigan State Fan

That makes sense. However, I've heard Cameron Gordon is ranked higher than Spencer. Is there any truth to this?

very true. he will be ranked higher. His best potential is on defense at safety or a bulked up LB, he just hasn't realized and wants to play offense in college.

[detroitsportscity]

Originally Posted by Mitch C.

Why do we seem like the only school with silent commits every year?

Bullcrap. ND, Miami, USC, Texas, UM, and every other team has silents every year. Sorry that you aren't paying that much attention to other teams.

['86]

Originally Posted by Mitch C.

Why do we seem like the only school with silent commits every year?

And, I want to know why even have silent verbals, what purpose do they serve? If a guy has decided to come here, who do they not want to know?

TIA

[EMSP]

Originally Posted by '86

And, I want to know why even have silent verbals, what purpose do they serve? If a guy has decided to come here, who do they not want to know?

TIA

Maybe the ranking services or Elite 11 camps? Seems to be pretty political on who they invite...

['86]

Originally Posted by spartyguy

Maybe the ranking services or Elite 11 camps? Seems to be pretty political on who they invite...

Hmph...Maybe, I don't know anything about those camps...

[Mitch C.]

Originally Posted by spartyguy

Maybe the ranking services or Elite 11 camps? Seems to be pretty political on who they invite...

Doesn't verballing help the rankings of said players? Does it really matter even if it doesn't?

If you want to attend a school, wouldn't it help to let others know you want to go there to try and get others to follow?

This silent verbal crap, I just don't get it, regardless of the motivation behind it.

[Chi Town Sparty]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dunkenstein

I hope these kids are for real because Saban and Pete Carroll will be coming in like vultures next February. (Crossing fingers) that they sign with MSU

I agree, it's like Tiller said, none of that crap would happen if there was an early signing period. Right now I wish there was one and I wish it started next Monday.

[Michigan State Fan]

Originally Posted by Mitch C.

Doesn't verballing help the rankings of said players? Does it really matter even if it doesn't?

If you want to attend a school, wouldn't it help to let others know you want to go there to try and get others to follow?

This silent verbal crap, I just don't get it, regardless of the motivation behind it.

I think verballing hurts the ranking of players.

[StatsETC]

Originally Posted by Mitch C.

Doesn't verballing help the rankings of said players? Does it really matter even if it doesn't?

If you want to attend a school, wouldn't it help to let others know you want to go there to try and get others to follow?

This silent verbal crap, I just don't get it, regardless of the motivation behind it.

Verballing always hurts the ranking. The recruiting sites always drop committed players in favor of uncommitted players because the uncommitted players still have multiple fanbases following them.

[spartan80]

Originally Posted by Mitch C.

Doesn't verballing help the rankings of said players? Does it really matter even if it doesn't?

If you want to attend a school, wouldn't it help to let others know you want to go there to try and get others to follow?

This silent verbal crap, I just don't get it, regardless of the motivation behind it.

Let's say Maxwell commits to MSU and then isn't invited to the Elite 11 camp, was it the commitment? Let's say Maxwell doesn't indicate a preference, and IS invited to the Elite 11. Regardless of where he rates in the Elite 11, he'll have more pull being in that group. Better to be an E11 QB then commit.

[AASpartan]

Originally Posted by spartan80

Let's say Maxwell commits to MSU and then isn't invited to the Elite 11 camp, was it the commitment? Let's say Maxwell doesn't indicate a preference, and IS invited to the Elite 11. Regardless of where he rates in the Elite 11, he'll have more pull being in that group. Better to be an E11 QB then commit.

I've gotta say that I've never heard of someone not being invited to Bob Johnson's camp because they were committed somewhere. Johnson really like Maxwell at an Elite 11 camp last year. Drew Stanton was an E11 participant even being committed to MSU....as was Keith Nichol (FWIW).

[MiamiSpartan]

Originally Posted by StatsETC

Verballing always hurts the ranking. The recruiting sites always drop committed players in favor of uncommitted players because the uncommitted players still have multiple fanbases following them.

Not to mention that kids who give an early verbal tend to receive a lot less scholarship offers, and offers play a significant part in a kid's ranking. Norman has a ton of offers already, but we'll never know how many he would have gotten (and from who) if he remained uncommitted. To have so many quality offers this early could have put him on pace for a legit shot at 5 stars, as it is likely more of the big boys around the country would come calling.

Each of these early commits have already lost points not just because they committed early, but because they committed to MSU. I understand when a UM offer makes a kid jump up in the rankings as opposed to an MSU offer. But if the offers are already there, then who they commit to should not matter. But Tyler Hoover proved that it does matter.

['86]

Originally Posted by MiamiSpartan

Not to mention that kids who give an early verbal tend to receive a lot less scholarship offers, and offers play a significant part in a kid's ranking. Norman has a ton of offers already, but we'll never know how many he would have gotten (and from who) if he remained uncommitted. To have so many quality offers this early could have put him on pace for a legit shot at 5 stars, as it is likely more of the big boys around the country would come calling.

Each of these early commits have already lost points not just because they committed early, but because they committed to MSU. I understand when a UM offer makes a kid jump up in the rankings as opposed to an MSU offer. But if the offers are already there, then who they commit to should not matter. But Tyler Hoover proved that it does matter.

So what's the point? If the ranking is based on the school he commits to, maybe it doesn't matter who else offers. And really, why do we even care about the rankings? Oh, I know it has value, but that value is nothing compared to the two utimate values that everybody is looking for- 1) does the school win games? 2) does the athlete have a successful career and po$ition himself for opportunite$ beyond college. Somebody said both Stanton and Nichols went to elite 11 camps as MSU commits, I just hate this implication that MSU is so inferior.

We are a major program, afterall. Sometime next fall, we'll have a 17,000 sq ft weight room (Texas has 20k). Things are changing. Sure, we're not elite, yet, but we do have history in putting guys into the NFL, ancient glory days, big time facilities that are ever improving, a large, national fanbase, and a coaching staff that may be coronated Izzo-esque!

[MiamiSpartan]

Originally Posted by '86

So what's the point? If the ranking is based on the school he commits to, maybe it doesn't matter who else offers. And really, why do we even care about the rankings? Oh, I know it has value, but that value is nothing compared to the two utimate values that everybody is looking for- 1) does the school win games? 2) does the athlete have a successful career and po$ition himself for opportunite$ beyond college. Somebody said both Stanton and Nichols went to elite 11 camps as MSU commits, I just hate this implication that MSU is so inferior.

We are a major program, afterall. Sometime next fall, we'll have a 17,000 sq ft weight room (Texas has 20k). Things are changing. Sure, we're not elite, yet, but we do have history in putting guys into the NFL, ancient glory days, big time facilities that are ever improving, a large, national fanbase, and a coaching staff that may be coronated Izzo-esque!

To touch on a couple of your points:

- I'll be among the first to say that the rankings don't matter. Their value is for the fans to have something to discuss.
- Who someone commits to is only part of what matters in a ranking (though I don't know that the Rivals guys would admit to it). But if a kid commits early to UM and basically has no other offers, chances are he'll be higher ranked than a kid who commits to MSU and has no other offers (in both cases, I am only saying no other offers because of a very early committment).
- The Elite 11 invitations are not based on Rivals rankings. So I don't think that is based on where a kid is committed to.
- I hope you didn't think that I am implying that MSU is inferior. But realistically we are viewed as middle of the road by national "experts". An MSU offer is not going to lift a kid from 3 stars to 4 stars. A UM offer can easily lift a kid from 3 stars to 4 stars. On the other hand, an MSU offer can lift a kid from 2 stars to 3 stars. So we're respected enough to get kids bumped from lower to middle tier, but not to bump kids from mid to upper tier.

And when you see a kid drop from 4 stars to 3 stars without playing a game, and the only thing that changed was that he committed to MSU, then you know that the B.S. is piling high in the Rivals offices.

But at the end of the day, if fans have faith in their coaching staff, then they should have faith in the players that they bring in.

[twig1318]

I heard the last few seconds of an interview of Mike Fowler who works at GS.net on the HUGE show and I thought he said something about possibly two more prospects committing in the next few days, did anyone else hear this or I am just crazy?

[I still hate Weber State]

Originally Posted by twig1318

I heard the last few seconds of an interview of Mike Fowler who works at GS.net on the HUGE show and I thought he said something about possibly two more prospects committing in the next few days, did anyone else hear this or I am just crazy?

I believe he was talking about basketball by then. Usually I change the radio station as soon as I get into the car after work, but caught the tail end of Sam Webb talking about Baker and decided to keep it there for the Fowler interview.

Either way, we could be getting even more good news on the football front or at the very least, maybe some of the "I can't believe Izzo hasn't landed any 5 star 2009 recruits yet" sentiment will die down.

['86]

Originally Posted by MiamiSpartan

To touch on a couple of your points:

- I'll be among the first to say that the rankings don't matter. Their value is for the fans to have something to discuss.
- Who someone commits to is only part of what matters in a ranking (though I don't know that the Rivals guys would admit to it). But if a kid commits early to UM and basically has no other offers, chances are he'll be higher ranked than a kid who commits to MSU and has no other offers (in both cases, I am only saying no other offers because of a very early committment).
- The Elite 11 invitations are not based on Rivals rankings. So I don't think that is based on where a kid is committed to.
- I hope you didn't think that I am implying that MSU is inferior. But realistically we are viewed as middle of the road by national "experts". An MSU offer is not going to lift a kid from 3 stars to 4 stars. A UM offer can easily lift a kid from 3 stars to 4 stars. On the other hand, an MSU offer can lift a kid from 2 stars to 3 stars. So we're respected enough to get kids bumped from lower to middle tier, but not to bump kids from mid to upper tier.

And when you see a kid drop from 4 stars to 3 stars without playing a game, and the only thing that changed was that he committed to MSU, then you know that the B.S. is piling high in the Rivals offices.

But at the end of the day, if fans have faith in their coaching staff, then they should have faith in the players that they bring in.

Cool, my post really wasn't just directed at you. Sometimes the 'we suck' mentality gets to me. I know this fan base has taken a beating in football, I just want us to snap out of it. In basketball, we have an enviable program. I was watching that show about the Minnesota team on the BTN the other day and Tollackson (sp?), the center, he was lamenting on two close losses to us. To him, and I think to a lot of schools, just touching the place where our progam sits right now was like a dream. We need to be happy and grateful.

In football, this new building has got to be really, really cool. Of course, our campus is 'elite'. I think these coaches are real winners, too. After the Penn State win, everyone started talking about a little differently. OSU hasn't won a national championship since he left. I'm not sure exactly what that means, but this guy may just be really, really good. A good man, great faith and character, but a truly talented leader, administrator and coach as well. Swap quarterbacks with Boston College, and I think we would have blown out the #10 team in the country with the kids he inherited.

From the things I've heard about Johnny Adams, I wonder why he was a ***. Was it because of the college he chose? 'F' it! If that's what it is, maybe it'll take awhile for people to change their perceptions. That shouldn't get us down. The fact is, he came here, not some place else. It surely seems plenty of other talent is moving this way, too.

All this started with the question about silent verbals. The best answer we've come up with so far is the star game. If that's it, ok, whatever... I think this coach is going to make people change their perceptions!

[SpartanGA]

while I agree the star system doesnt matter, I care what MD and staff evaluate. And once a player is committed, it matters less.

However, perception is reality in this world and especially with younger kids. Getting 4 4*+ verbals early is much more impressive than a bunch of 3*, in perception. This alone can bring more kids, which is helpful. The players themselves are the same, but the perception can draw more good kids.

Then MD has to weed them out based on his evaluation of talent and character.

[SpartanRocky]

Originally Posted by smithsonga

while I agree the star system doesnt matter, I care what MD and staff evaluate. And once a player is committed, it matters less.

However, perception is reality in this world and especially with younger kids. Getting 4 4*+ verbals early is much more impressive than a bunch of 3*, in perception. This alone can bring more kids, which is helpful. The players themselves are the same, but the perception can draw more good kids.

Then MD has to weed them out based on his evaluation of talent and character.

I agree with this entirely, perception does generally matter among the higher rated guys.

FWIW, MD personally evaluated 16 of the 21 guys we got this year and all but 3 of them were at one or more of our camps. This kind of in depth "recruit scouting" means that more of our guys are likely to contribute because MD thinks that they'll fit our system.

I gotta say, MD seems to have built a reputation in 2 recruiting classes and now at class #3 is putting that rep to work. I like the way things are going

['86]

Originally Posted by smithsonga

while I agree the star system doesnt matter, I care what MD and staff evaluate. And once a player is committed, it matters less.

However, perception is reality in this world and especially with younger kids. Getting 4 4*+ verbals early is much more impressive than a bunch of 3*, in perception. This alone can bring more kids, which is helpful. The players themselves are the same, but the perception can draw more good kids.

Then MD has to weed them out based on his evaluation of talent and character.

There's a sense in which that is very true. I hope we can all keep it in perspective, just exactly what 'perception' is, and what it isn't.

took over a troubled program. He's fixing it (along with many others like those who actually initiated this football building). I hope everyone can believe in what they are making, not just the past.