'09 CA WR Jamar Howard (Cincy Verbal)

[wingfanjim]

Originally Posted by spartaspartan

yeah, we didn't get enough of that with JLS.

Are you people forgetting that MD runs a pro style set, all these wideouts are pointless

Incorrect. The wideouts are important. While much of the time our offense runs out of a traditional I-formation set with a TE and 2 WRs, we also have plays in the play book where the offense lines up in a spread formation that is 3, 4 or 5 WR wide. It is still VERY important to have quality receivers because if you can't successfully pass the ball, defenses can gang up on your running game and your offense grinds to a halt.

[ERR]

Originally Posted by wingfanjim

Incorrect. The wideouts are important. While much of the time our offense runs out of a traditional I-formation set with a TE and 2 WRs, we also have plays in the play book where the offense lines up in a spread formation that is 3, 4 or 5 WR wide. It is still VERY important to have quality receivers because if you can't successfully pass the ball, defenses can gang up on your running game and your offense grinds to a halt.

You are right on. I was impressed that we spread the field at times last season. I think in this era some spread elements should be integrated into the offense. However, I still like having FB's on the roster. I'm no coach, but it seems to me that a coach should run schemes and call plays to match the strengths of his personnel.

[wingfanjim]

Originally Posted by ERR

You are right on. I was impressed that we spread the field at times last season. I think in this era some spread elements should be integrated into the offense. However, I still like having FB's on the roster. I'm no coach, but it seems to me that a coach should run schemes and call plays to match the strengths of his personnel.

The goal should be having strength in ALL positions so that way you can keep a defense off balance with a variety of plays and formations. That is what I like so much about the offense MD and Treadwell are putting together. On one play they can line up in an I formation and run the ball down your throat behind a mammoth offensive line, tight ends and a fullback. On the next play they can line up 5 wide in a shotgun formation and sling the ball anywhere on the field. Having that flexibility on offense allows you to call plays that negates your opponent's strengths and emphasizes their weaknesses.

[spartaspartan]

Originally Posted by wingfanjim

Incorrect. The wideouts are important. While much of the time our offense runs out of a traditional I-formation set with a TE and 2 WRs, we also have plays in the play book where the offense lines up in a spread formation that is 3, 4 or 5 WR wide. It is still VERY important to have quality receivers because if you can't successfully pass the ball, defenses can gang up on your running game and your offense grinds to a halt.

games are won in 2 places, on the O-line and the D-line.

If you want depth, I'll take the lineman any day of the week

the last thing I'm worried about is a position that might touch the ball 10 times a game, yeah, they are involved in other things, but the lineman are involved 100% on every play.

We have plenty of depth already with receivers, I don't need another JUCO kid who will be gone in 2 years regardless of what his film shows.

Than again, if MD decides to take the kid, I'm just a stupid message board poster and I back him 100%

[BlackShirtChris]

Originally Posted by spartaspartan

games are won in 2 places, on the O-line and the D-line.

and the message boards!!!

[wingfanjim]

Originally Posted by spartaspartan

games are won in 2 places, on the O-line and the D-line.

If you want depth, I'll take the lineman any day of the week

the last thing I'm worried about is a position that might touch the ball 10 times a game, yeah, they are involved in other things, but the lineman are involved 100% on every play.

We have plenty of depth already with receivers, I don't need another JUCO kid who will be gone in 2 years regardless of what his film shows.

Than again, if MD decides to take the kid, I'm just a stupid message board poster and I back him 100%

We don't really need any more linemen with this class unless there is attrition. Typically speaking for solid depth and balance you need 16 scholarship offensive linemen on the roster.

Next fall when this class gets on campus this is how things will look in that regard.

Seniors 5
Cironi
Moss
Nitchman
Schmeding
Stipek

Juniors 2
Diehl
Deane

Sophomores 2
McGaha
Foreman

Redshirt Freshman 5
Deyo
Hueter
McDonald
Ruhland
Woods

Freshman 3
Barrent
Klatt
Reynolds

Other Possible linemen 2
Ray
France

Total linemen: Between 17 and 19

Attrition is a major factor here. Who knows if Ray or Diehl will get/stay healthy enough to play. Also, Schmeding, Stipek, and Deane are potential guys who could leave the program because they got passed up in the depth chart. If any of those happen, then yes, you should look for more linemen. However, until that time, unless you get a guy who is an offensive line equivalent to Jamar Howard in terms of talent, it won't hurt you to take him to help bolster a young receiver corp.

As far as D line is concerned, we are also in good shape there.

Defensive Tackles
Seniors 1
Jordan

Juniors 2
Wilson
Jeremiah

Sophomores 2
Wheat
Pickelman

Redshirt Freshmen 1
Worthy

Freshmen 2
Treadwell
France

Total Defensive Tackles: 8

Defensive End

Seniors 1
Anderson

Juniors 2
Neely
Johnson

Sophomores 1
Hoover

Redshirt Freshmen 1
Jude

Other Possible Defensive Ends:
Williams
France

All in all we are pretty well set at DT and we could probably take another DE. The bottom line is that we are already pretty solid on the lines.

[AASpartan]

Originally Posted by wingfanjim

Also, Schmeding, Stipek, and Deane are potential guys who could leave the program because they got passed up in the depth chart.

I'd say that the last thing that I'm worried about are 3 juniors transferring so that they could maybe play their senior years at a FCS school.

That being said, enough with the friggen hijacks in this thread! No more posts about linemen!

[wingfanjim]

Originally Posted by AASpartan

I'd say that the last thing that I'm worried about are 3 juniors transferring so that they could maybe play their senior years at a FCS school.

That being said, enough with the friggen hijacks in this thread! No more posts about linemen!

It's actually relevant to the conversation. Spartaspartan was saying that we shouldn't take another wide receiver because we need to focus on the offensive and defensive line. I was simply showing that we do have depth there and that we don't need to take any more linemen unless we get attrition. This means that we have space available if we wish to take another WR like Jamar Howard.

[AASpartan]

Originally Posted by wingfanjim

It's actually relevant to the conversation. Spartaspartan was saying that we shouldn't take another wide receiver because we need to focus on the offensive and defensive line. I was simply showing that we do have depth there and that we don't need to take any more linemen unless we get attrition. This means that we have space available if we wish to take another WR like Jamar Howard.

I give you guys a lot of space. Work with me here. Please keep the conversation to updates about Jamar Howard only.

Oddly enough, no one ever talked about the 2 updates that had been posted about Jamar last month, yet this thread has almost tripled in size in the last week to discuss what is probably the least important part of this whole process....what people think that we should do.

[EMSP]

Originally Posted by ERR

You are right on. I was impressed that we spread the field at times last season. I think in this era some spread elements should be integrated into the offense. However, I still like having FB's on the roster. I'm no coach, but it seems to me that a coach should run schemes and call plays to match the strengths of his personnel.

Or weaknesses of the opposition.

[Coached By Duffy]

Originally Posted by wingfanjim

We don't really need any more linemen with this class unless there is attrition. Typically speaking for solid depth and balance you need 16 scholarship offensive linemen on the roster.

Next fall when this class gets on campus this is how things will look in that regard.

Seniors 5
Cironi
Moss
Nitchman
Schmeding
Stipek

Juniors 2
Diehl
Deane

Sophomores 2
McGaha
Foreman

Redshirt Freshman 5
Deyo
Hueter
McDonald
Ruhland
Woods

Freshman 3
Barrent
Klatt
Reynolds

Other Possible linemen 2
Ray
France

Total linemen: Between 17 and 19

Attrition is a major factor here. Who knows if Ray or Diehl will get/stay healthy enough to play. Also, Schmeding, Stipek, and Deane are potential guys who could leave the program because they got passed up in the depth chart. If any of those happen, then yes, you should look for more linemen. However, until that time, unless you get a guy who is an offensive line equivalent to Jamar Howard in terms of talent, it won't hurt you to take him to help bolster a young receiver corp.

As far as D line is concerned, we are also in good shape there.

Defensive Tackles
Seniors 1
Jordan

Juniors 2
Wilson
Jeremiah

Sophomores 2
Wheat
Pickelman

Redshirt Freshmen 1
Worthy

Freshmen 2
Treadwell
France

Total Defensive Tackles: 8

Defensive End

Seniors 1
Anderson

Juniors 2
Neely
Johnson

Sophomores 1
Hoover

Redshirt Freshmen 1
Jude

Other Possible Defensive Ends:
Williams
France

All in all we are pretty well set at DT and we could probably take another DE. The bottom line is that we are already pretty solid on the lines.

Good analysis of the lines. As you mentioned we could probably use another DE for added depth especially since John Stipek is no longer medically able to play. If you look at the playing rotation for 2009, the options appear to be Anderson, Hoover, Johnson, and possibly Jude if he's ready as a RS Fr. Neely @ 6' 1", 248 lbs. just hasn't shown much and already is a RS Soph. This is a pretty thin rotation. Other DE possibilities are Chris McDonald and maybe converting one of the Fr. LB's to DE, i.e., Jamihr Williams @ 6' 3", 240 lbs. or Drew Stevens @ 6' 4", 225 lbs. Also, with the DT depth looking pretty good Dan France could end up @ DE.
P.S. You missed DE Johnathon Strayhorn, a 6' 0", 252 lb. RS Fr. walk-on, who @ that size will never be much of a factor.

[Brian1]

Originally Posted by spartaspartan

games are won in 2 places, on the O-line and the D-line.

If you want depth, I'll take the lineman any day of the week

the last thing I'm worried about is a position that might touch the ball 10 times a game, yeah, they are involved in other things, but the lineman are involved 100% on every play

We have plenty of depth already with receivers, I don't need another JUCO kid who will be gone in 2 years regardless of what his film shows.

Than again, if MD decides to take the kid, I'm just a stupid message board poster and I back him 100%

You mean a JUCO receiver like D. Thomas was for us last year? Right, we don't need guys like that.

[SCOTT'S BLOATED LIVER]

Originally Posted by AASpartan

I give you guys a lot of space. Work with me here. Please keep the conversation to updates about Jamar Howard only.

Oddly enough, no one ever talked about the 2 updates that had been posted about Jamar last month, yet this thread has almost tripled in size in the last week to discuss what is probably the least important part of this whole process....what people think that we should do.

I think you should summarize the updates for us.....dance you little monkey...dance !

[AASpartan]

Originally Posted by SCOTT'S BLOATED LIVER

I think you should summarize the updates for us.....dance you little monkey...dance !

Had MSU and Cal in his top 2. Really likes Oregon. Sounds like he'd prefer to stay on the west coast, but the interviewer sounded like a Pac-10 guy.

[SCOTT'S BLOATED LIVER]

Originally Posted by AASpartan

Had MSU and Cal in his top 2. Really likes Oregon. Sounds like he'd prefer to stay on the west coast, but the interviewer sounded like a Pac-10 guy.

Thank you Hmmm...I bet if MD really wants this kid and puts the full court press on him he would end up in EL. I base this off nothing more than a gut feeling...and I had chili last night...

[Mr. (G) Jones and me]

Ok lets say that we take Howard, where does that leave us with Cam Gordan? I know lots of people are saying that he might line up on the defensive side of the ball for the green & white but is Jamar Howard really that good to pass up an INSTATE superstar?

[wingfanjim]

Originally Posted by Mr. (G) Jones and me

Ok lets say that we take Howard, where does that leave us with Cam Gordan? I know lots of people are saying that he might line up on the defensive side of the ball for the green & white but is Jamar Howard really that good to pass up an INSTATE superstar?

Cam Gordon appears to have grade issues

[AASpartan]

Originally Posted by wingfanjim

Cam Gordon appears to have grade issues

At the end of the day, I don't think that we'll see Howard in green and white either. Even if he really wants to come here, I know that it's much more difficult to get JUCOs into State now than it was 2 years ago. I believe that's the main reason that Howard is looking elsewhere. I don't see this happening.

[Old Hort]

Originally Posted by Mr. (G) Jones and me

Ok lets say that we take Howard, where does that leave us with Cam Gordan? I know lots of people are saying that he might line up on the defensive side of the ball for the green & white but is Jamar Howard really that good to pass up an INSTATE superstar?

I think that is a little much to call Gordon a "superstar". He seems to be rated as high as he is because of his physical stature, and his potential. From many reports, the kid does not have good hands, and hence, the questions of his ability to play WR and the desire to see him as LB/S.

Also, either he has grade issues, or not many see him as a possible superstar: MSU, Minny, and Cincy are his only offers. Compare that to Howard's offer list.

However, I agree with AA, I don't think Howard (or Gordon) end up in E. Lansing.

[Randolph Junuh]

Originally Posted by Brian1

You mean a JUCO receiver like D. Thomas was for us last year? Right, we don't need guys like that.

Maybe he meant a JUCO receiver like Emory Jones or Kenny Jackson. Do we want guys like that?

[DrTre11]

I believe this kid is a two win swing for a team period. You can win two games you might have otherwise lost because of his impact and that might be understating it. I wish I had the number of hours I've logged watching videos of 4 and 5 star kids over the last few years and nobody has impressed me more at the WR position on tape.

This is the one kid I'd be heartbroken over if he went elsewhere. (i mean that in a rational, i have a life, fan perspective of course) He's just got that over the top superstar look to him. One of those guys you watch on every play because you know the big one is coming.

[OPSpartan]

Originally Posted by Randolph Junuh

Maybe he meant a JUCO receiver like Emory Jones or Kenny Jackson. Do we want guys like that?

D. Thomas and Kerry Reed vs Emory Jones and Kenny Jackson. Did the risk outweigh the reward or vice versa?