Red-shirts

[hagger23]

How about some speculation as to which true freshmen see the field this year...

I am the guy who always pushes for incoming freshmen to be red-shirted, citing the benefits of having 23 yr old fifth yr players in lieu of 18 yr old 1st yr players.I am willing to make a concession from that point, but not for the normal reasons.
Given that each team has a limited number of scholarships each year, red-shirting may not always be the best idea.
Consider MSU:The 07 and 08 recruiting classes are viewed as not very good. The 09 class is looking very strong and we hope the trend continues going forward.
That being said; what do we do with the menial 07-08 recruits?
I think it makes sense that if a guy like caulton ray is going to be surpassed in the future by caper and baker, let him play this year, and stay for four instead of five years. That will free up a scholarship down the road.




If ray proves himself worthy, he can always be red-shirted later on, but my point is, we can flush out some lower rated prospects to make room for better players down the road!

[AASpartan]

Originally Posted by hagger23

How about some speculation as to which true freshmen see the field this year...

I am the guy who always pushes for incoming freshmen to be red-shirted, citing the benefits of having 23 yr old fifth yr players in lieu of 18 yr old 1st yr players.I am willing to make a concession from that point, but not for the normal reasons.
Given that each team has a limited number of scholarships each year, red-shirting may not always be the best idea.
Consider MSU:The 07 and 08 recruiting classes are viewed as not very good. The 09 class is looking very strong and we hope the trend continues going forward.
That being said; what do we do with the menial 07-08 recruits?
I think it makes sense that if a guy like caulton ray is going to be surpassed in the future by caper and baker, let him play this year, and stay for four instead of five years. That will free up a scholarship down the road.




If ray proves himself worthy, he can always be red-shirted later on, but my point is, we can flush out some lower rated prospects to make room for better players down the road!

I completely disagree with the sentiment in this thread. Don't redshirt players to get them out of the system faster? Menial 07-08 recruits? Terrible.

[49ers169]

Originally Posted by hagger23

How about some speculation as to which true freshmen see the field this year...

I am the guy who always pushes for incoming freshmen to be red-shirted, citing the benefits of having 23 yr old fifth yr players in lieu of 18 yr old 1st yr players.I am willing to make a concession from that point, but not for the normal reasons.
Given that each team has a limited number of scholarships each year, red-shirting may not always be the best idea.
Consider MSU:The 07 and 08 recruiting classes are viewed as not very good. The 09 class is looking very strong and we hope the trend continues going forward.
That being said; what do we do with the menial 07-08 recruits?
I think it makes sense that if a guy like caulton ray is going to be surpassed in the future by caper and baker, let him play this year, and stay for four instead of five years. That will free up a scholarship down the road.




If ray proves himself worthy, he can always be red-shirted later on, but my point is, we can flush out some lower rated prospects to make room for better players down the road!

Ummm I hate to rag on you but this post is idiotic.

First off last years class didn't have the star hype like this year but don't consider them not very good. All of those guys from last years class have the potential to be very good.

Caulton Ray is a tremendous athlete and you redshirt him. If he gets passed on the depth chart then you tell him he fits in better at a different position. He is a damn good defensive back as well. Same thing with Glenn Winston but at linebacker. But he may not redshirt.

The guys I don't see redshirting are Fred Smith, Johnny Adams, Tyler Hoover, Keshawn Martin, 1 of Charles Burrell/Brynden Trawick, 1 or 2 of the linebackers and possibly Jerel Worthy.

I think you are going to look back in 4 or so years and say that Rivals missed the boat on a lot of these guys. Greg Jones was a 3 star player and I doubt anybody thinks that now.

We have very good guys in place. I see a lot of potential in the guys we have brought in the last 2 years.

Lastly, there is nothing set in stone that we will continue to recruit the way we are. I am certain that recruits would love us rushing players out the door and treating them like crap.

[Nals]

Originally Posted by 49ers169

Ummm I hate to rag on you but this post is idiotic.

First off last years class didn't have the star hype like this year but don't consider them not very good. All of those guys from last years class have the potential to be very good.

Caulton Ray is a tremendous athlete and you redshirt him. If he gets passed on the depth chart then you tell him he fits in better at a different position. He is a damn good defensive back as well. Same thing with Glenn Winston but at linebacker. But he may not redshirt.

The guys I don't see redshirting are Fred Smith, Johnny Adams, Tyler Hoover, Keshawn Martin, 1 of Charles Burrell/Brynden Trawick, 1 or 2 of the linebackers and possibly Jerel Worthy.

I think you are going to look back in 4 or so years and say that Rivals missed the boat on a lot of these guys. Greg Jones was a 3 star player and I doubt anybody thinks that now.

We have very good guys in place. I see a lot of potential in the guys we have brought in the last 2 years.

Lastly, there is nothing set in stone that we will continue to recruit the way we are. I am certain that recruits would love us rushing players out the door and treating them like crap.

Martin is an unknown. He has talent, we know that. But is he as polished as a WR as Fred Smith? I just hope we don't burn the redshirt on him with special teams this year, because he could develop into a very good player 3-4 years from now. (the sky is the limit for all of these guys)

[spartaspartan]

Originally Posted by 49ers169

Ummm I hate to rag on you but this post is idiotic.

First off last years class didn't have the star hype like this year but don't consider them not very good. All of those guys from last years class have the potential to be very good.

Caulton Ray is a tremendous athlete and you redshirt him. If he gets passed on the depth chart then you tell him he fits in better at a different position. He is a damn good defensive back as well. Same thing with Glenn Winston but at linebacker. But he may not redshirt.

The guys I don't see redshirting are Fred Smith, Johnny Adams, Tyler Hoover, Keshawn Martin, 1 of Charles Burrell/Brynden Trawick, 1 or 2 of the linebackers and possibly Jerel Worthy.

I think you are going to look back in 4 or so years and say that Rivals missed the boat on a lot of these guys. Greg Jones was a 3 star player and I doubt anybody thinks that now.

We have very good guys in place. I see a lot of potential in the guys we have brought in the last 2 years.

Lastly, there is nothing set in stone that we will continue to recruit the way we are. I am certain that recruits would love us rushing players out the door and treating them like crap.

baring injury, I don't see Worthy hitting the field this year. I think he gets a redshirt behind Kershaw, Jeremiah, Wheat, and Wilson (I can't spell so don't even go there).

He could work himself into the 2-deep though with a solid August

[thehuskyone]

Originally Posted by Nals

Martin is an unknown. He has talent, we know that. But is he as polished as a WR as Fred Smith? I just hope we don't burn the redshirt on him with special teams this year, because he could develop into a very good player 3-4 years from now. (the sky is the limit for all of these guys)

Although practice has not started yet I have heard from a couple players that Martin may be further along than Smith is. Smith might see a lot of playing time this year(both special teams and also in the slot).

[05steve10]

Originally Posted by hagger23

How about some speculation as to which true freshmen see the field this year...

I am the guy who always pushes for incoming freshmen to be red-shirted, citing the benefits of having 23 yr old fifth yr players in lieu of 18 yr old 1st yr players.I am willing to make a concession from that point, but not for the normal reasons.
Given that each team has a limited number of scholarships each year, red-shirting may not always be the best idea.
Consider MSU:The 07 and 08 recruiting classes are viewed as not very good. The 09 class is looking very strong and we hope the trend continues going forward.
That being said; what do we do with the menial 07-08 recruits?
I think it makes sense that if a guy like caulton ray is going to be surpassed in the future by caper and baker, let him play this year, and stay for four instead of five years. That will free up a scholarship down the road.




If ray proves himself worthy, he can always be red-shirted later on, but my point is, we can flush out some lower rated prospects to make room for better players down the road!

just a little advice for the future, no one likes to read a lot.
also, most of us are smart and know what red shirting is; don't treat us like we are dumb.

maybe you should've just said: who does everyone think will be red shirted and who do you think gets playing time this year?

[burnsmi4]

i think his post was aimed at the Wake Forest program where everyone redshirts. I am all for redshirting average players if we have the depth at that position. But when the players coming in are better than last year starters then you have to play them

[AASpartan]

Originally Posted by 05steve10

maybe you should've just said: who does everyone think will be red shirted and who do you think gets playing time this year?

He was asking "So because our 07 and 08 kids are crappy recruits in comparison to players we'll get in the future, should we just play them all and burn up their eligibility to get more schollies later?

[SpartanRocky]

Originally Posted by AASpartan

He was asking "So because our 07 and 08 kids are crappy recruits in comparison to players we'll get in the future, should we just play them all and burn up their eligibility to get more schollies later?

Well, he failed to take into consideration the fact that real life does not = NCAA2009

[Tide06]

I think most would agree that you should put a shirt on the linemen whenever possible but the rest depends on program need and player ability. Thats why JLS constantly pi**ed me off with his complete reliance on JUCO kids in the trenches. He was right to bring in a couple difference makers but the bottom line is that unless you have the four year kids making up the bulk of your line depth you are going to pay in the end.

And for the record, kids like Ray have as good a shot as any to play because we have a senior RB who has been hurt in the past and not a whole lot of established backs behind him.

[wingfanjim]

Originally Posted by spartaspartan

baring injury, I don't see Worthy hitting the field this year. I think he gets a redshirt behind Kershaw, Jeremiah, Wheat, and Wilson (I can't spell so don't even go there).

He could work himself into the 2-deep though with a solid August

don't forget Pickelman as well. I'm almost positive that Worthy redshirts this year.

[wingfanjim]

Originally Posted by thehuskyone

Although practice has not started yet I have heard from a couple players that Martin may be further along than Smith is. Smith might see a lot of playing time this year(both special teams and also in the slot).

I could have sworn it was the other way around.

[dhoffsparty]

Yeah I heard the same thing, Smith is going to have a good shot at PT...Martin and Adams might return kicks due to unreal speed and big play threat.
Williams if Jones is the solid MIKE starter
Worthy...we have a lot of depth inside
Heuter and Woods....deyo and Ruhland are more polished
Rolf, unless decker goes down early or we have to move jones back outside
Jude is 50/50 depending on Johnsons ability to walk into the 2 deep with hoover, anderson and long
Ray, Robinson, and White almost 100% RS...white needs to gain a lot of weight, robinson just bc we don't have a need at corner and he's behind adams, and ray bc we have a lot of backs

There is a chance that Winston or Ray get into the mix at RB but there would have to be some injuries, and I think Winston will get some reps at LB which is the position of his future I think. Even though he would make an unreal FB option if they can get his weight up and teach him to block. Caper and Baker spliting carries at Tail and Winston at FB/H-Back.

[SpartanRocky]

Originally Posted by wingfanjim

I could have sworn it was the other way around.

From what you were saying on the main board, he's going to have a big time impact

[thehuskyone]

Originally Posted by wingfanjim

I could have sworn it was the other way around.

I would think that one of either Smith or Martin will redshirt. From what I hear as of right now it looks like it will be Smith. Martin needs to work on running better routes but physically he is ahead of Smith as far as being big ten ready as a true freshmen. This is just what I have been told. I think both will have very good careers in the green and white but I think Smith gets a red shirt this year.

[dhoffsparty]

at 6-2 225 (from what Dorsey is saying) the guy would be our biggest receiver. He can go up and get it, runs ok routes (that's his issue), and has very good hands. There is no reason for him not to be Dell's backup, with Cunningham and Curry spliting time on the other side. I think they are going to reserve that slot spot for a Rucker/Martin type that can take a drag route and turn it up field for 30 yrds or a little screen behind Curry or BJ. But if Smith is going to get PT running the three of them out there with Smith in the slot, Hawk and Ringer in the backfield might be fun to watch....give us 3 deep threats and 2 backs. I do like a little I formation slot. Also, people are starting to talk about Smith turning into an TE/H-Back kind of guy with his size. So running him out there in the slot will get him use to being over the middle more often.

[dhoffsparty]

Originally Posted by thehuskyone

I would think that one of either Smith or Martin will redshirt. From what I hear as of right now it looks like it will be Smith. Martin needs to work on running better routes but physically he is ahead of Smith as far as being big ten ready as a true freshmen. This is just what I have been told. I think both will have very good careers in the green and white but I think Smith gets a red shirt this year.

6-0 185 is more physically ready than 6-2 225?

[AASpartan]

Originally Posted by thehuskyone

I would think that one of either Smith or Martin will redshirt. From what I hear as of right now it looks like it will be Smith. Martin needs to work on running better routes but physically he is ahead of Smith as far as being big ten ready as a true freshmen. This is just what I have been told. I think both will have very good careers in the green and white but I think Smith gets a red shirt this year.

That's surprising as Fred Smith is pretty thick and Martin has a much slighter build.

I'm still curious about the rumors that Martin was still trying to become eligible.

[thehuskyone]

Originally Posted by dhoffsparty

6-0 185 is more physically ready than 6-2 225?

I am just going with what I have been told. We will see how it plays out its just my guess that Fred Smith gets a red shirt. In a perfect world I would hope that neither of them did and they were both all americans. What ever decides to do I would also trust in.

Practice doesn't start for a little while and thats when everything will be determined. But from what I hear Smith is behind Martin at this point. Things could change come August.

[dhoffsparty]

In the case of eligability, every has qualified and is on campus.

It's going to be fun to watch the depth chart in a few weeks. There are a lot of good battles for a change. There are freshmen that are going to challange the 2 deep, some position changes that looked like they were working in the spring game, it's just a really exciting time for Spartan football.....In