Looking for a new laptop

[bulldogg]

Originally Posted by mrob

Didn't know I was working for you--sorry. Had to run out to my other job for a few hours.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6484737.html

Comparable machines, MacBook Pro more than held its own against the crowd.

Or here: http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-10442_7....html?tag=lnav

MacBook "lost" this one in a tight race, 5-4.

Or here:http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/02...son2/index.php

This one compares an Inspiron 9400 configured through Dell’s Medium & Large Business store priced at $2,944 against a $2199 MacBook Pro, comparably equipped. This makes the MacBook Pro even less less expensive than the Dell laptop before coupons—$482 cheaper overall after coupons, to be exact.

Still listening?

Yes, YOU still haven't told me anything. YOU are telling me that YOU want "elegance" - I've asked you many times, describe that to me. YOU have stated that Apple is easy, and Windows is difficult. Please explain.

I don't want these CNET reviews. I want YOU to tell me what YOU think.

This isn't too hard.

You know what, if you just want to say that you like the little icons at the bottom that get bigger when you hover the mouse over them, that's cool. Just say something.

Also, who the heck is going to pay $2500 for a laptop? OK, you got me. Mac is comparable in that market. Now, come back down to Earth and lets talk comparable in a market that most people would buy.

Thank you.

[bulldogg]

Originally Posted by mrob

:http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/02...son2/index.php

This one compares an Inspiron 9400 configured through Dell’s Medium & Large Business store priced at $2,944 against a $2199 MacBook Pro, comparably equipped. This makes the MacBook Pro even less less expensive than the Dell laptop before coupons—$482 cheaper overall after coupons, to be exact.

Still listening?

So, first this is "macworld", so I was a bit skeptical. I just went to Dell's site and configured a comparable machine for $874. Not the 2199 or 2944 or any other number they throw out.

Here are the specs (differences are 20GB in HD, and 128MB in video card):

PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T5600 (1.83GHz, 2MB L2 Cache, 667MHz FSB) edit
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Basic edit
LCD PANEL 15.4 inch Wide Screen XGA Display edit
MEMORY 1GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz, 2 Dimm edit
HARD DRIVE 80GB 5400rpm SATA Hard Drive edit
OPTICAL DRIVE 8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability edit
VIDEO CARD 256MB ATI MOBILITY™ RADEON® X1400 HyperMemory™ edit
WI-FI WIRELESS CARD Dell Wireless 1390 802.11b/g Mini Card (54Mbps) edit
SOUND OPTION Integrated Audio edit
MEDIA DIRECT Media Direct 3.0 edit
Accessories
BATTERIES 85 WHr 9-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery edit
Software
PRODUCTIVITY No productivity suite- Includes Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD edit
SECURITY No Security Subscription edit
Service
WARRANTY & SERVICE 1 Year Mail-in Economy Plan edit
DIAL-UP INTERNET ACCESS 6 Months of America Online Membership Included edit
PURCHASE INTENT Purchase is not intended for resale. edit
ALSO INCLUDED WITH YOUR SYSTEM
Network Card and Modem Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem
Miscellaneous 6400 dual
Processor Branding Intel Core 2 Duo Processor
Labels Windows Vista™ Basic
A/C ADAPTER Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.0
Digital Imaging Corel Snapfire Basic - Organize and Edit your photos

[mrob]

OK, last time for this. I'm getting bored with this "conversation."

Here's what I think I know:

You think that I am an arrogant, elitist Mac fanboy, who unquestioningly accepts anything out of Steve Jobs' mouth and loves anything with an Apple logo affixed to it (mostly true, BTW!).

I think that you are a smug, defensive IT guy who thinks that you know more about computers than most of the "civilian" population, especially anyone who uses a Mac.

You have seen Apple wage an increasingly aggressive marketing campaign against Microsoft--and by extension, the PC world, of which you are a card carrying member. It makes you nervous, because as an IT guy you know that if everyone used a Mac you'd be out of a job, and you also feel very uncomfortable around Macs as you have spent most of your adult life figuring out how to navigate in Windows.

So, you do the only thing you can whenever one of these "Mac vs. PC" threads pops up: you try to disparage the Mac as a silly little kids computer, imply that its not a "serious" machine, lacks the "power" a real working guy needs to do his job in the real world, that there are no applications available for Macs, that so few people use the Mac that no one even bothers writing viruses for the Mac OS; am I forgetting anything?--and at the same time try to trot out the tired, contradictory argument that the Mac is too expensive for "normal" folks, all the while ignoring the fact that its by and large "normal" folks (students, senior citizens, teachers, etc.) who are switching to the Mac in increasingly large numbers.

Now, here's what I'm sure I know:

The Mac is easier to use. Period. I'm not sure why you need me to tell you when I've provided several examples from objective sources, but here goes.

Apple first established its user base in the schools, due in large part to its ease of use. As someone who has worked in the schools for nearly 30 years, I can't remember ever meeting a school IT guy who didn't love Macs, and wouldn't switch to an all-Mac environment if given a choice. Macs require less IT support, are easier to set up and network, they "play well" with PCs, and are more resistant to viruses and student tampering. BTW, when Macs first made their way into the schools there weren't any "school IT guys." They only appeared after PCs started showing up. Unfortunately, school business administrators often "require" PCs for the administrative side of things, perpretuating the myth that "Macs are for kids, PCs are for adults."

The aesthetics of the machine's design are superior with Apple. And aesthetics matter when you use the machine for hours each day. Apple users actually enjoy using their machines, which makes work more enjoyable--and improves productivity.

The GUI is far more intuitive and user friendly. It anticipates the way that you work with the applications and utilities installed on the machine. If you could find someone who had never used a computer and sat them down in front of a Windows machine they wouldn't know what to do--do the same thing with a Mac and they'd be up and running in minutes. (My Mom is a good example--and she actually used PCs for 20 years before she retired.)

When I use MS Word or PowerPoint on a PC, everything seems a little "fuzzy," for lack of a better word. On a Mac, edits are more seamless, changes to documents get applied more logically, and the screen refreshes more pleasingly. I don't expect you to understand--its just my experience.

The OS is more stable. System crashes are rare, viruses nearly non-existent.

Plug-n-play actually means plug-n-play with Macs. No loading drivers from the included CD, fiddling with installers or trouble shooting for incompatibilities between your new accessory and some hidden utility that you didn't even know existed.

Macs includes a host of applications (iTunes, iPhoto, Mail, Safari, etc.) that. . .actually work right out of the box--and that work with each other.

Macs include as standard several things, like the iSight camera, that make peoples' lives easier. PC owners often need to add these things as aftermarket accessories. I guess you'd call that "choice."

Apple customer service is fast and reliable.

Apple is one of the few computer companies that is still actively innovating--see Apple TV, iPhone, iPod, etc.

Oh, and I almost forgot about the Dock. I just love the way the icons get bigger when you hover over them. Its so cool!

Feel free to respond, but I'm done with this discussion. Apple doesn't need me to defend them, they are doing just fine all by themselves.

I'll look forward to your posts slamming the iPhone in June.

Till then. . .

[bulldogg]

mrob -

Contrary to what you might think, I have absolutely no problem with the Mac. My problem starts with the Mac fans that, I swear, would try to convince me the sky is orange if Steve Jobs told them and labeled it iOrange.

Each has its advantages and disadvantages. To me there are three main disadvantages of the Mac: 1) The price. I don't see how you can even debate this. Macs cost more. You tried and failed miserably. 2) The number of applications. Again, I think that you look foolish to debate this. Maybe you don't use all the apps, but I'm not sure how you can debate this fact. 3) Since OSX is different than Windows, why would anyone that doesn't want to learn two OSes learn it? Everyone needs to know how to use Windows - like it or not, its life. If you want to learn another OS, OSX might be the easiest thing to learn - great - but not my point.

Next, I feel that most Mac guys are really just anti-Microsoft guys. Why the hate? By all means, I'm not a pro-everything-Windows guy (I am still part of the minority that thinks Novell is a better server OS), but I can appreciate Windows.

Apple makes great commercials - true. I love them ... seriously.

Is Apple more of an innovator than MS? Probably, but that doesn't necessarily make them better at everything they do.

Regarding the apps. You actually have to hand it to Microsoft here. They recognized years ago, that getting app developers to easily write for this OS was a key to "winning" the OS wars. Their ability to actually make a suite of products work and work well together actually catapulted the whole company - I'm speaking of Office here. They took down the monsters Wordperfect, 1-2-3, and dBase by doing so.

I always ask - why is a Mac "so easy to use" and never get a response, only "it is". I don't have a problem using Windows. Maybe it is a fact that I don't know what I'm missing, but that is why I ask ... and never get answered.

Speaking of the iPhone, I have stated that I will reserve judgment until I actually hold it. However, it looks to big for me. People are getting so excited about a device, when there are other devices on the market now that do the same thing. I'm not a huge music lover (but I do like my iPod), and I don't have more than 2GB of music that I need to keep on my device ... which would be the biggest reason that I could seen the iPhone being cool. We'll see - I'm just not going to wet my pants because Steve Jobs told me to. I'll wait and see.

Those are just my opinions, agree/disagree if you want. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. It's just not my style.

[AASpartan]

bulldogg, you're doing a great job...but if you're not with them, you obviously don't know how much better Macs are at everything. That seems to be the prevailing sentiment. My 3 year old niece has her own Windows laptop and she has no problem with it.

Why can't Mac folks understand that Macs aren't for everyone?

[bulldogg]

Originally Posted by AASpartan

Why can't Mac folks understand that Macs aren't for everyone?

Like the poor guy that started the thread wanting to only spend around $750?

[bulldogg]

Originally Posted by Jiggy Spartan

things i never skimp on are computers, good luggage, authentic 7-11 slurpees, non-store brand cheese, cheerios, sony tv's, and toilet paper.

but thats just me

Gotta disagree here (I had to disagree with you on something today, right ).

Bought a nice luggage set, and after a 5-6 trips - they are beat to hell. Damn airline workers.

Might as well skimp, and buy new ones every year.

[bulldogg]

Originally Posted by Top Dog

Oh we already had that debate. Not only did bulldog slam it for being too big (having never seen one) he actually admitted to carrying a much thicker phone himself. He expects the iphone to tank.

He can keep posting his obsolete opinions (like anyone cares) but the sales trend is undeniable. Mac is surging and I expect to continue riding the stock to high after high.

Not to mention enjoying my 3 Mac laptops, 3 ipods...and soon 2 iphones.

Oh God, don't bring this up again. My phone is smaller (albeit thicker), but to me (not trying to convince you) the iPhone is not a front pocket phone. But like I said then, I will hold off judgment until I hold it (but I'm basing my opinion on the fact that it is the same size as the MotoQ).

I never said that the iPhone would tank - nice try.

[bulldogg]

Originally Posted by Jiggy Spartan

did you buy them from nordstrom? cuz i know they will replace any piece of luggage that fails for life.

Define "fails".

[bulldogg]

Originally Posted by Jiggy Spartan

failure is defined as the $6 hr luggage loader at DTW who throws your bag onto the conveyor as hard as he wants which destroys both wheels requiring you to carry the bag and render its purpose as a roller bag useless.

take that bag back to nordstrom and they replace it no questions asked. if its been discontinued, they offer store credit or the latest model.

Yep, that is one of the problems. Zippers are the other. Then the bumps, bruises, discolorations are the others.

I'll have to check out this place. Just went to the website and there is one in GR. Thanks.

[Heat Miser]

Much like the "Looking for a new desktop PC" thread started Fridayish (hope he was trolling), this one also degenerated into a Mac vs. PC thread. Though this thread originator didn't specifically say "PC laptop", IMO it was implied.

We get it...Macs rule, PCs suck, Gates is the Devil, Jobs is God, we're all morons for not seeing the light, the Mac empire will someday rule the world & deliver us to the promised land, cats & dogs will live in harmony, blah blah blah. Until then, can a person start a simple PC question thread without having the 2nd or 3rd reply be a Mac advertisement?!?!?

[bulldogg]

Originally Posted by mcongdon

Much like the "Looking for a new desktop PC" thread started Fridayish (hope he was trolling), this one also degenerated into a Mac vs. PC thread. Though this thread originator didn't specifically say "PC laptop", IMO it was implied.

We get it...Macs rule, PCs suck, Gates is the Devil, Jobs is God, we're all morons for not seeing the light, the Mac empire will someday rule the world & deliver us to the promised land, cats & dogs will live in harmony, blah blah blah. Until then, can a person start a simple PC question thread without having the 2nd or 3rd reply be a Mac advertisement?!?!?

Not on tRCMB.