tOfficial iPhone news and discussion thread

[Trevor Barnes]

Originally Posted by bulldogg

Completely agree ... Apple markets well to the technical novices.

It's not just the marketing though, it's being able to create a UI that the masses will absolutely love to use and almost instantly understand how to use. People seriously underestimate how extremely difficult that is to accomplish. It's a huge technological feat in and of itself. Revolutionary some might even say.

[misterorange]

So are these bad lads hard to find or what?

[bulldogg]

Originally Posted by Fighting With A Vim

Very interesting.

One note I'd like to make is that many of these are small UI issues. I agree with the ones they mention, but it is misleading to say "68 confirmed iPhone bugs", when only a handful are major issues (application crash, functionality failure, etc).

That is why my comment and the article starts off stating that it is "extremely solid".

[bulldogg]

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

It's not just the marketing though, it's being able to create a UI that the masses will absolutely love to use and almost instantly understand how to use. People seriously underestimate how extremely difficult that is to accomplish. It's a huge technological feat in and of itself. Revolutionary some might even say.

We are saying the same thing. They did well with marketing and the UI.

Strictly technically speaking, they are still behind in many areas compared to other smartphones.

[Trevor Barnes]

Originally Posted by bulldogg

We are saying the same thing. They did well with marketing and the UI.

Strictly technically speaking, they are still behind in many areas compared to other smartphones.

When you say "technically" you're referring to hardware I assume. I guess I consider the software/UI part to be "technical" as well. And in that respect, I think Apple is way ahead of the competition already.

[bulldogg]

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

When you say "technically" you're referring to hardware I assume. I guess I consider the software/UI part to be "technical" as well. And in that respect, I think Apple is way ahead of the competition already.

The UI is technical, but it is more "how" you do something, not "what" you can do.

For the half-way technical person, you can do more with a Windows/Palm/Blackberry today than you can with an iPhone.

[tuff bob]

Originally Posted by bulldogg

For the half-way technical person, you can do more with a Windows/Palm/Blackberry today than you can with an iPhone.

like VPN access to reboot servers with ssh very handy on my treo

[Trevor Barnes]

Originally Posted by tuff bob

like VPN access to reboot servers with ssh very handy on my treo

That will likely be coming in future software updates. They already have a remote access app for iPhones/Macs available.

[Trevor Barnes]

Originally Posted by bulldogg

For the half-way technical person, you can do more with a Windows/Palm/Blackberry today than you can with an iPhone.

Very true, but are they things that the masses will miss for instance? I'd wager that the "cool" features that the masses will use 90% of the time are a better experience on the iPhone already:

• music
• video
• web surfing
• email (the masses don't need Exchange, but that support is coming soon too)
• Google Maps
• YouTube
• Weather

[bulldogg]

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

Very true, but are they things that the masses will miss for instance? I'd wager that the "cool" features that the masses will use 90% of the time are a better experience on the iPhone already:

• music
• video
• web surfing
• email (the masses don't need Exchange, but that support is coming soon too)
• Google Maps
• YouTube
• Weather

All of those are also available on the other platforms.

music
Again, Windows Mobile and Blackberries aren't hard, but I'd probably give the edge to the iPhone.

video
What kind of video? Playing movies? Watching TV (Slingbox? RediTV?) Is there any kind of TV for the iPhone?

web surfing
It's Internet Explorer on the Windows Mobile. It doesn't get much easier. I'ver heard that the zoom-in/zoom-out is cool though. But worth it?

email (the masses don't need Exchange, but that support is coming soon too)
This is remarkably easy on Windows Mobile with Outlook. I can't see how it would be any easier on the iPhone.

Google Maps
I gotta believe that this is the exact same on all platforms. Just an icon that I click on to start.

YouTube
Never tried on any platform. Can't comment (but then again since I haven't tried - not sure how important it is)

Weather
There are about a zillion different ways to get your weather on any platform - from dumbly easy to too much data.

[Trevor Barnes]

Originally Posted by bulldogg

All of those are also available on the other platforms.

Yes, but I'd wager that the interface and user experience of all of those are done better on the iPhone. Actually, I already know that's the case from personal use.

Originally Posted by bulldogg

music
Again, Windows Mobile and Blackberries aren't hard, but I'd probably give the edge to the iPhone.

Hard? No, but there's little doubt that the user experience is much nicer on the iPhone. Not even in the same league. Dare I say, elegant?

Originally Posted by bulldogg

video
What kind of video? Playing movies? Watching TV (Slingbox? RediTV?) Is there any kind of TV for the iPhone?

Playing movies and Youtube videos. The "masses" don't own Slingboxes. I bet they'll support it in the next year though.

Originally Posted by bulldogg

web surfing
It's Internet Explorer on the Windows Mobile. It doesn't get much easier. I'ver heard that the zoom-in/zoom-out is cool though. But worth it?

It's not just "easier" but it just plain looks and works better than Pocket IE or Opera Mobile. Zooming in and out is pretty cool too and is effortless.

Originally Posted by bulldogg

email (the masses don't need Exchange, but that support is coming soon too)
This is remarkably easy on Windows Mobile with Outlook. I can't see how it would be any easier on the iPhone.

I'd say that this category is almost a push, but the integration of the phone's Contact system on the iPhone is very nice.

Originally Posted by bulldogg

Google Maps
I gotta believe that this is the exact same on all platforms. Just an icon that I click on to start.

It's not actually. The app running on the iPhone was custom made by Apple. Google has even said it was by far the best interface to Google Maps they've seen yet on a portable device. It actually surprised Google how well it worked.

Originally Posted by bulldogg

YouTube
Never tried on any platform. Can't comment (but then again since I haven't tried - not sure how important it is)

Probably not that important, but the masses will love it and it gives it that "cool" factor.

Originally Posted by bulldogg

Weather
There are about a zillion different ways to get your weather on any platform - from dumbly easy to too much data.

I think the key is that it's already built in and works very well. You don't need to search for an app to download. I was pleased with the Windows Mobile weather app I ended up with but I had to try three different ones before I found the one I used most of the time.

[bulldogg]

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

Playing movies and Youtube videos. The "masses" don't own Slingboxes. I bet they'll support it in the next year though.

But the point is that technically, the iPhone is behind.

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

I'd say that this category is almost a push, but the integration of the phone's Contact system on the iPhone is very nice.

A push? Please even Apple has recognized that the lack of Exchange integration sets them way behind. If they had this single feature, I would have one right now. (Only because I switch phones every 4-6 months, and I like to try new ones )

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

It's not actually. The app running on the iPhone was custom made by Apple. Google has even said it was by far the best interface to Google Maps they've seen yet on a portable device. It actually surprised Google how well it worked.

I'd have to see it. The Google Maps on the Blackberry is pretty nice though - way better than the TeleNav junk that came with it.

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

(youtube) Probably not that important, but the masses will love it and it gives it that "cool" factor.

I tried. I can't get it to work on the Blackberry. It keeps saying that it needs Flash. Funny, because I thought that the iPhone was lacking Flash too. Must be built into their youtube player thing ... just not in the browser?

Bottom line - for the technically savvy people, you can do everything and a lot more with other devices. Apple did a great job with the UI and marketing the device to bring it more mainstream. And its a great first entry into the market, but face it they are a couple of years behind (time-wise, not technical-wise). I would think they will catch up.

Is it true that you can't text message with those? Or is it just MMS messaging that it lacks?

[misterorange]

Wow so im downloading itunes I cant believe how slow it dl off their site.

[mrob]

Originally Posted by bulldogg

But the point is that technically, the iPhone is behind.

bulldogg,

If I admit that I'm a helpless Apple fanboy, will you admit that you are a pathological Apple hater, and we can all just get on with our lives?

You keep saying that if iPhone could just do Exchange email you'd have one already. Here you go: More evidence of iPhone's Exchange support and RSS reader - Engadget

Can't wait to see the pix of you and your iPhone!

[bulldogg]

Originally Posted by mrob

bulldogg,

If I admit that I'm a helpless Apple fanboy, will you admit that you are a pathological Apple hater, and we can all just get on with our lives?

You keep saying that if iPhone could just do Exchange email you'd have one already. Here you go: More evidence of iPhone's Exchange support and RSS reader - Engadget

Can't wait to see the pix of you and your iPhone!

So not true. I think the phone looks cool and have given them props for the awesome marketing job and what appears to be a great UI, but I don't see anything that it gets me (except a likely better UI) over my phone now except the ability to play Youtube videos ... and there are other things that it just doesn't do.

It doesn't support Exchange!!! POP and IMAP don't count - this isn't the 1990's. I want synchronization with my email, calendar, contacts, and tasks. When it does (notice I do say when, because they will eventually have it), I will get one - and I'll gladly send you a picture . I'm willing to try anything - I have a Blackberry now and don't like that either, but I am getting used to it - there are a couple of advantages that I have found (not many, but a couple).

Heck, I'd love to try OSX if they just allowed me to install it on my machine that I already have (I am thinking of trying Ubuntu soon). Don't make me go out and overpay for their special machines.

[TurboSpartan]

Far less sophisticated in what way (I get the feeling this isn't a home-court subject for you). Show me the network that will respond well to having a bunch of devices blasting out 18000 broadcast arp requests per second. That will pretty much **** up the broadcast domains the phones are on. So what are you telling me, it's not a big deal because it will only take down one department of the university per phone?

And where in your post do you admit the fact that pretty much no other phone does this crap? Did you ever hear of a Palm, Windows Mobile, Blackberry or Symbian phone doing that? No, because they'd have to be ******ed to let a phone out the door that is going to cripple an entire broadcast domain, period.

Bottom line: So far Apple has made two big mistakes with this phone: accidentally letting out their weak 6-letter developer root passwords(nice security guys), and inadvertantly generating Denial of Service attacks on any LAN unfortunate enough to host the phone(nice quality control guys).

[Trevor Barnes]

Originally Posted by TurboSpartan

Far less sophisticated in what way (I get the feeling this isn't a home-court subject for you). Show me the network that will respond well to having a bunch of devices blasting out 18000 broadcast arp requests per second. That will pretty much **** up the broadcast domains the phones are on. So what are you telling me, it's not a big deal because it will only take down one department of the university per phone?

Show me some stories about other universities having the same problem and I'll start to believe that this isn't isolated to Duke's particular network. You'd think for instance that the entire Bay area, with their tens of thousands of iPhones out in the public, would have all their wifi hotspots ground to a halt. Strange isn't it that you really aren't hearing about this problem from anywhere but Duke? Many are saying this is Cisco's issue, not Apple's.

[kgbmsu]

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

Show me some stories about other universities having the same problem and I'll start to believe that this isn't isolated to Duke's particular netowk. You'd think for instance that the entire Bay area, with their tens of thousands of iPhones out in the public, would have all their wifi hotspots ground to a halt. Strange isn't it that you really aren't hearing about this problem from anywhere but Duke?

Would you just buy one already. Sheesh.

[Trevor Barnes]

Originally Posted by kgbmsu

Would you just buy one already. Sheesh.

[Mel]

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

[kgbmsu]

Originally Posted by Mel

Oh, he's already got one??

[TurboSpartan]

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

Show me some stories about other universities having the same problem and I'll start to believe that this isn't isolated to Duke's particular network. You'd think for instance that the entire Bay area, with their tens of thousands of iPhones out in the public, would have all their wifi hotspots ground to a halt. Strange isn't it that you really aren't hearing about this problem from anywhere but Duke? Many are saying this is Cisco's issue, not Apple's.

OK, so 18000 arp requests per second originating from an iPhone's address is a Cisco issue. Whatever.

The thing that makes Apple fanatics so insufferable is that they bull**** too much. Not that all of them bull**** as much as mrob, but generally they bull**** too much. They'll buy a product, talk about rehashed features as if they're innovations, tell you the product is better than anything else, deny any obvious flaws and not present a balanced story. And if you say anything to balance it, you get attacked or get a sermon about networks from people who aren't qualified to give it. I'm sure Trevor must be a CCNA though since he knows about how "sophisticated" Duke and MSU's networks are.

I'd love to keep calling out bull**** in this thread but who has the time.

[mrob]

Yup--Apple is just a bunch of hacks who steal the great ideas of other companies and fool suckers with slick marketing.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Trevor Barnes]

Originally Posted by TurboSpartan

OK, so 18000 arp requests per second originating from an iPhone's address is a Cisco issue. Whatever.

Still waiting for the links to news stories about other networks having this problem. With hundreds of thousands of iPhones out in the wild I'm positive you'll have no problem finding dozens and dozens of news stories besides Duke's problem with reportedly 2 iPhones out of 150+ on their network.

[ErnieMcCracken]

According to Think Secret- Jobs is giving all full time employees at Apple the 8 gig Iphone and part time employees with more than one year of service a Iphone also. Pretty cool gift to show appreciation.