Tracking the Tigers in the offseason

nicho197 · 11-01-2007, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heathens '87

Jones is more than not pretty. He gets saves, which are perhaps the most over-rated statistic in baseball. It's completely situation and not a reflection on how well a pitcher actually pitched. If you look at metrics that measure actual performance, you won't find a worse closer on a playoff-level team than Todd Jones, and you can add a few handful of non-playoff teams to the list of teams that have a better end-of-game option than Todd.

I think there wouldn't even be a question about Zumaya if he hadn't gotten hurt last season. Still, the Tigers need to upgrade their closing situation and the owe it to themselves to find out if Joel is the answer. If Todd is plan B or plan C, that's great. A veteran fall-back option is needed given the untested waters we'd be treading with Zumaya or Rodney.

But combining Todd's performance (or lack of) and the rising skill set of Zumaya, there's every reason to explore that option fully.........

I totally agree with that statement. But, the fact is he did get hurt and lost a whole season because of it. There are only two other closers out there that would benefit us: rivera and cordero. Are either legitimate options? I do not know. I also agree we owe it to ourselves (the tigers) to see if Zumaya is ready. But, I do not want to rush him either. Who else would you look at?

nicho197 · 11-01-2007, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AASpartan

I haven't seen enough consistency from Zumaya to make me even want to think about handing the closer role over to him. There aren't a plethora of closers out there that the Tigers are somehow missing.

thank you! well said!

jdbmst3k · 11-01-2007, 03:21 PM

It's Zumaya's job to lose!

Heathens 87 · 11-01-2007, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicho197

I totally agree with that statement. But, the fact is he did get hurt and lost a whole season because of it. There are only two other closers out there that would benefit us: rivera and cordero. Are either legitimate options? I do not know. I also agree we owe it to ourselves (the tigers) to see if Zumaya is ready. But, I do not want to rush him either. Who else would you look at?

To step in and close?! I don't think there's anyone on the market we'd go after. To be a handcuff to Zumaya (plan A) and Rodney (maybe plan B), there are a number of options besides Jones out there should he not be back.

I'm not expecting to see the Tigers going after a closer via free agency or a trade this off-season. I think the approach is to hand Joel the ball in the spring and see if he's ready and have some other options if he's not.........Rodney, an experienced veteran, and some non-roster invitees to compete for a job......

Heathens 87 · 11-01-2007, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdbmst3k

It's Zumaya's job to lose!

Seems like that's the plan...........

Jones, 39, is considered an important insurance policy for the bullpen as the Tigers prepare to turn Joel Zumaya, 22, into their long-term closer.

With Renteria in fold, Tigers focus on pitching

jdbmst3k · 11-01-2007, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heathens '87

Seems like that's the plan...........

Jones, 39, is considered an important insurance policy for the bullpen as the Tigers prepare to turn Joel Zumaya, 22, into their long-term closer.

With Renteria in fold, Tigers focus on pitching

Check Valenti's Zumaya thread on the first page and get back to us.

Heathens 87 · 11-01-2007, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdbmst3k

Check Valenti's Zumaya thread on the first page and get back to us.

The same guy who is a roller-coaster of opinions depending on whether State's won or lost that week?! Valenti isn't a journalist, he's a commentator, a "fan," and a bit manic-depressive..........

jdbmst3k · 11-01-2007, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heathens '87

The same guy who is a roller-coaster of opinions depending on whether State's won or lost that week?! Valenti isn't a journalist, he's a commentator, a "fan," and a bit manic-depressive..........

I guess we'll just have to see how Zumaya does in spring training with that shoulder.

Wonder if the 10,000% inferior Jones can beat him out given the latest news.

AASpartan · 11-01-2007, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heathens '87

The same guy who is a roller-coaster of opinions depending on whether State's won or lost that week?! Valenti isn't a journalist, he's a commentator, a "fan," and a bit manic-depressive..........

Your opinion of him doesn't change the fact that Joel Zumaya is out for a long time rehabbing.

nicho197 · 11-01-2007, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AASpartan

Your opinion of him doesn't change the fact that Joel Zumaya is out for a long time rehabbing.

it is on mlive, so it did happen

the good news is it happened before most of the pitchers were taken and we can go get some extra guys now.

Heathens 87 · 11-01-2007, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdbmst3k

I guess we'll just have to see how Zumaya does in spring training with that shoulder.

Wonder if the 10,000% inferior Jones can beat him out given the latest news.

If true....well, crap. There goes the plan for '08. A well-timed bit of news for the thread, I'd say........

Good news for Todd, bad news for the Tigers, and I'll turn the argument into one that says Fernando Rodney is even a better option than Todd and deserves a look in the spring. They've got to find a better option than Todd Jones. If not Zumaya, they've got to look at other options rather than settling for his mediocrity........

pjkgreen · 11-01-2007, 04:02 PM

I would think that going after cordero would be thier #1 option if they sign Jones. Bringing bactk Jones even before this injury was a no brainer. IMO they should look from within to find another reliever. Someone like Lopez, or Del La Cruz given the opportunity would flourish in that roll. That God Illitch is the owner, so we don't have to worry about if ownership is going to flip the bill for another fa reliever. Also, DD knows what he is doing by getting good young pitchers on the farm. I think the Tigers will be ok.

Heathens 87 · 11-01-2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjkgreen

I would think that going after cordero would be thier #1 option if they sign Jones. Bringing bactk Jones even before this injury was a no brainer. IMO they should look from within to find another reliever. Someone like Lopez, or Del La Cruz given the opportunity would flourish in that roll. That God Illitch is the owner, so we don't have to worry about if ownership is going to flip the bill for another fa reliever. Also, DD knows what he is doing by getting good young pitchers on the farm. I think the Tigers will be ok.

This bad news does open the door to thinking about the market for a reliever. Cordero may be seeking a huge deal here and I've a sneaking suspicion that he solid '07 was a classic becoming-a-free-agent performance. The market price for him may not be that high so I'm sure Dombrowski will ask. The Phillies might be looking to deal Tom Gordon, the Rockies might want to move Brian Fuentes, etc. Hard to say what'll happen now.......

bulldogg · 11-02-2007, 11:36 AM

With the Zumaya injury, it looks like the Tigers have to retool the backend of the bullpen. This ought to be interesting.

One other name that has been floated out there: BJ Ryan - Tommy John surgery this year for Toronto. Should be close to returning by the beginning of next year. If Toronto picked up a lot of his contract (due to make 10M each year in 2008, 2009 and 2010), I might take a flier there.

bulldogg · 11-02-2007, 11:50 AM

Two Japanese closers are also looking at making the jump to MLB:

Hitoki Iwase LH (all-time Japan saves leader)
Masahide Kobayashi RH (mid-90s fast ball)

Both will be 33 when the season begins.

bulldogg · 11-05-2007, 09:27 PM

More A-Rod speculation

SI.com - Writers - First things first (cont.) - Monday November 5, 2007 4:26PM

Tigers #2 contender?

(Also, Tigers in the hunt for Gagne mentioned)

nicho197 · 11-06-2007, 10:59 AM

more info on zumaya...good news
and some more about free agency and who the tigs are looking at

Zumaya's prognosis good; Tigers' reliever says, 'I believe a miracle happened'

State or Die · 11-06-2007, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulldogg

Two Japanese closers are also looking at making the jump to MLB:

Hitoki Iwase LH (all-time Japan saves leader)
Masahide Kobayashi RH (mid-90s fast ball)

Both will be 33 when the season begins.

That dude can do everything.... i cant believe he can stay in shape while eating all those hotdogs

bulldogg · 11-06-2007, 12:33 PM

Red Sox sign Schilling.

ESPN - One more year: Schilling, Red Sox agree on deal - MLB

Quote:

Curt Schilling and the Boston Red Sox have reached an agreement on a one-year deal worth about $8 million in base salary and another $2 million in potential incentives, ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney reports.

nicho197 · 11-06-2007, 03:23 PM

I do not understand why they keep saying they are going to go after jones first over cordero. it better be a loyalty thing! Screw that and get cordero! I am glad they are looking at getting two other relievers as well!

Heathens 87 · 11-06-2007, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicho197

I do not understand why they keep saying they are going to go after jones first over cordero. it better be a loyalty thing! Screw that and get cordero! I am glad they are looking at getting two other relievers as well!

The Tigers wanted Zumaya to step into the closing role next year until this injury popped up. I'd imagine that Dombrowski may have some reservations about offering Cordero the longer-team he's likely seeking. Gagne is in a similar situation and wants to close and not just for one year.

It's a real question time for the Tigers - do they still believe in Zumaya as their future closer and simply need to fill that slot until he's back and ready or do they invest in an established closer for what would likely be a 3-year or so window?!

For a playoff-level team, Jones is little more than a back-up plan option at closer at this point in his career. Zumaya's injury makes him relevant yet again. But if the Tigers feel like they can't rely on Zumaya to come back and solidify the end of the pen, they'll move on and look at the needed upgrade from Jones.

Given the type of injury Joel has, I'd say it's time to look at upgrading through free agency or a trade........

AASpartan · 11-06-2007, 03:36 PM

Maybe the Tigers are still wishing they hadn't given up Cordero in the JuanGone deal.

Spartan Punk · 11-06-2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heathens '87

The Tigers wanted Zumaya to step into the closing role next year until this injury popped up. I'd imagine that Dombrowski may have some reservations about offering Cordero the longer-team he's likely seeking. Gagne is in a similar situation and wants to close and not just for one year.

It's a real question time for the Tigers - do they still believe in Zumaya as their future closer and simply need to fill that slot until he's back and ready or do they invest in an established closer for what would likely be a 3-year or so window?!

For a playoff-level team, Jones is little more than a back-up plan option at closer at this point in his career. Zumaya's injury makes him relevant yet again. But if the Tigers feel like they can't rely on Zumaya to come back and solidify the end of the pen, they'll move on and look at the needed upgrade from Jones.

Given the type of injury Joel has, I'd say it's time to look at upgrading through free agency or a trade........

So is that why if Jones wants to come back he will be offered before Cordero or Gagne? Just wondering how many more times you're gonna say "Jones is only back up plan, he is plan B/C now, blah blah blah". We get it, you think he shouldn't be resigned, you think he's not good enough as a closer to win on a playoff team.

Spartan Punk · 11-06-2007, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AASpartan

Maybe the Tigers are still wishing they hadn't given up Cordero in the JuanGone deal.

Just noticed........when do you become a mod?

Cordero has more blown saves of any reliever in baseball in the past 4 years (30).

DantonIzzo · 11-06-2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartan Punk

So is that why if Jones wants to come back he will be offered before Cordero or Gagne? Just wondering how many more times you're gonna say "Jones is only back up plan, he is plan B/C now, blah blah blah". We get it, you think he shouldn't be resigned, you think he's not good enough as a closer to win on a playoff team.

I'm not a Jones fan at all, but he's > a 'roidless Gagne.