1 year / $7mil - Todd Jones reups.

[bulldogg]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfSparty®

Injuries were part of the game. The starting pitching wasn't great in parts, but isn't nearly the weakness that the bullpen is/was.

The bullpen was actually solid in the 2nd half of the season.

[P Rob]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfSparty®

Look, I want the same thing you do: a Tigers' World Series championship. I just don't agree that Todd Jones is the closer that will get us there. That's all. I made no bones about it, I thought they should go hard after Marino Rivera. I think that would have at least got them into the WS.

issues 1-3 facing the 2007 tigers in the 2nd half....(1 being most critical)

1. starting pitching
2. hitting







3. relief pitching (MAYBE)

[MSU ROX]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfSparty®

I think this captures the Jones issue pretty well:

The Detroit Tiger Weblog » Leveraging Todd Jones

Note, I would be less upset with this signing if not for the raise. Sign him at what he made last year with the idea that he'd be a set-up guy by season's end.........

Are you paying him?

This would have been the plan if Zumaya wasnt injured.

[AUAlum06]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfSparty®

Again, starting pitching had it's bad streaks. As did hitting. The bullpen was generally unreliable all season.

the bullpen was pretty much lights out once Rondey came back throwing mid to upper 90s

[MSU ROX]

Originally Posted by AUAlum06

the bullpen was pretty much lights out once Rondey came back throwing mid to upper 90s

only a few hiccups. Zoom blowing it vs Cleveland and Jonesy blowing it @ Oakland.

But then again, those losses are amplified, since it was in the middle of the pennant race.

[AUAlum06]

Originally Posted by MSU ROX

Zoom blowing it vs Cleveland

I am still pissed at LArry Pancino for that 2-2 pitch he decided wasn't a strike

[MSU ROX]

Originally Posted by AUAlum06

I am still pissed at LArry Pancino for that 2-2 pitch he decided wasn't a strike

Thanks AU for reminding me

[AASpartan]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfSparty®

Again, starting pitching had it's bad streaks. As did hitting. The bullpen was generally unreliable all season.

The bullpen was NOT the problem in the second half. I still don't know why people blame the bullpen when the starting pitching was atrocious in the second half and put us in holes nearly every game.

[MSU ROX]

Originally Posted by AASpartan

The bullpen was NOT the problem in the second half. I still don't know why people blame the bullpen when the starting pitching was atrocious in the second half and put us in holes nearly every game.

Cause people only remember the 1 or 2 games that the pen blew vs the 15-20 ****ty starts we got.

[AASpartan]

Originally Posted by MSU ROX

Cause people only remember the 1 or 2 games that the pen blew vs the 15-20 ****ty starts we got.

Man. I don't even know how that's possible. They must have been tuning in late in the games and seeing we were down and assuming that it was the bullpen.

[Heathens 87]

Todd is a rather polarizing player so these threads are often entertaining. It usually boils down to arguments based in fact vs. fans and what's often missed is the the cold reality.....

- In every way a pitcher's performance is measured, Todd Jones is a mediocre pitcher. Saves are not a valuable metric as they only measure the fact that a pitcher didn't screw up under a specific set of circumstances.

- His value is based in his experience and ability to go out there and battle even when he doesn't have his best.

- You won't find a playoff-level team with a worse closer than Todd Jones. Of that level of team, the only argument you can make is Cleveland and I'd argue that Borowski is at least comparable to Todd.

- The Tigers wanted Zumaya to close in '08. The probably has planned on '07 being a transition year and Jones not being back in 2008. Joel's health changed those plans.

- Todd is back because the Tigers needed to ensure that there'd be a basic level of performance from that position while they examine Zumaya's future and/or the market to add a better closer.

- Todd would take less money for a multi-year deal. $7-million for one-year is a fair price to pay, and when Atlanta didn't bite on adding Jones, coming back to Detroit gave him the best chance at good money with the potential to close games.

- Young pitchers pitching a lot in '06 wore down as '07 progressed, and we lost an innings-eater in Rogers. That exposed the starting pitching and over-taxed the bullpen at times. More quality starts is key to our hopes in 2008 as we don't have a bullpen that's lights-out if we're leading in the 6th.

I'm glad to have Jones in the bullpen. But if an opportunity comes to add a better closer, I hope and expect the team to take it.........

[MSU ROX]

But in that particular situation, he gets the job done the majority of the time. 86.36% of the time in that particular situation in 2007.

Hes paid his bills over the course of his career by getting the job done the vast majority of the time in that situation.

These are facts.

[P Rob]

Originally Posted by MSU ROX

But in that particular situation, he gets the job done the majority of the time. 86.36% of the time in that particular situation in 2007.

Hes paid his bills over the course of his career by getting the job done the vast majority of the time in that situation.

These are facts.

what are you talking about, he's worthless.

[Heathens 87]

Originally Posted by MSU ROX

But in that particular situation, he gets the job done the majority of the time. 86.36% of the time in that particular situation in 2007.

"Getting the job done" is not what a save measures. It measures not screwing up. The game is won when you enter. Don't blow it and you get a save. It measures not failing, not whether you're a good pitcher or even a good closer.

And if you want to look at save percentage, you'll also find that Todd Jones is a mediocre, middle-of-the-pack closer (behind Nathan, K-Rod, Rivera, Jenks, Ryan, Otsuka, Ray, Gordon, Cordero, Wagner, Hoffman, Saito and even Mike Gonzalez, who leads the majors in that category, which should tell you its worth).

Cut it any way you like, Todd Jones is a mediocre closer........

[MSU ROX]

Thats fine. Im not gonna change your opinion, and you arent gonna change mine.

I for one am glad he resigned.

[Heathens 87]

Originally Posted by MSU ROX

I for one am glad he resigned.

Like I said, it usually comes down to "facts vs. fans" and you're a fan. I've no issue with that, but we do know it's supported by emotion and not fact.

That said, we do agree on one thing - we're both glad he's re-signed. With the Zumaya injury, his experience and willingness to go out there and battle will be needed, especially if we're unable to add another arm or two to the bullpen.....

[Spartan Punk]

After the 2008 season is over, Todd Jones will be in the top 10 all time save leader, just needs 30 to pass John Wetteland for # 10. This is if Roberto Hernandez, Troy Percival and Jose Mesa do not become a closer somewhere as they are currently 25, 23 and 20 saves ahead of Jones.

[Spartan Punk]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfSparty®

The problem with the save stat is it rewards you for still sucking. For instance: Todd Jones comes on in the 9th with the Tigers leading 4-1. He gets the first two guys out. Then gets in a jam, gives up a few hits, and 2 runs. 4-3 bases loaded he gets a GO to end the game.

Tigers win.
Jones gets a save.
Jones still sucked.

The closers job is to get 3 outs before the other team ties the game or takes the lead. It really doesn't matter how it's done, just that they get the job done. Of course to a few people on here all that matters is how good he looks doing it, not the results, which as you say is, Tigers win.

By the way, just want to let you know that Mariano Rivera lost as many games for the Yankees by losing it or blowing a save as Todd Jones did this past season.

[Heathens 87]

Originally Posted by Spartan Punk

The closers job is to get 3 outs before the other team ties the game or takes the lead. It really doesn't matter how it's done, just that they get the job done.

Todd Jones would prefer this be the definition for success in the role of closer - who cares how, just as long as you don't fail, you're considered effective.

Meanwhile, you ignore the fact that even in terms of "getting the job done" there are 13 other closers from 30 teams better at that than Todd Jones. Even by your asinine definition of success, Todd Jones is mediocre.......

[Spartan Punk]

Originally Posted by Heathens '87

Todd Jones would prefer this be the definition for success in the role of closer - who cares how, just as long as you don't fail, you're considered effective.

Meanwhile, you ignore the fact that even in terms of "getting the job done" there are 13 other closers from 30 teams better at that than Todd Jones. Even by your asinine definition of success, Todd Jones is mediocre.......

Please tell me where I've said (or anyone else on here) that Jones is one of the best closers in baseball. You are incredibly ignorant to assume that anyone who supports / backs Jones thinks that he is one the best. Of course you're only asinine reply to everyone is, "Todd Jones is mediocre" again and again and again. You seem obsessed with putting that in every reply about him. Congrats on your mental issues of having to put down a baseball player on a message board who doesn't meet your expectations of his position. Most of the posters on here realize what Jones is, a good closer, nothing more, nothing less.

[Heathens 87]

Originally Posted by Spartan Punk

Please tell me where I've said (or anyone else on here) that Jones is one of the best closers in baseball.

Most of the posters on here realize what Jones is, a good closer, nothing more, nothing less.

Hmm.....you're on here right now saying he's a good closer. One of the best?! Yeah, people have tried to make that claim based on number of saves or save percentages, and you're welcome to look through the various threads to find such statements and "Todd Jones - Hall of Famer" posts.

And he's not a "good closer" by any definition. He's mediocre (and I like to stay on point), but since he's a mediocre closer on our team, "fans" like to make more of that than they should. I'm just here to speak truth to power, my friend...........

[Spartan Punk]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfSparty®

Fixed it.

Wow, what a great fix. By the way, you never responded to the post where I listed the link to Jones' game log to prove how ignorant you were by saying he lost 12 games all by himself. .I wonder why that is?

[P Rob]

[MSU ROX]

Originally Posted by Spartan Punk

Wow, what a great fix. By the way, you never responded to the post where I listed the link to Jones' game log to prove how ignorant you were by saying he lost 12 games all by himself. .I wonder why that is?

Its pointless Punk. why bother.

[AASpartan]

Originally Posted by MSU ROX

Its pointless Punk. why bother.

I'm going to have a hard time taking someone's opinion seriously when they assert that the bullpen was a big reason for the second half collapse.