tOfficial Blu-ray vs. HD DVD discussion thread

[hexydes]

Originally Posted by tuff bob

I remember that there were HD-DVD players for $99 ... I tried to buy one but they were sold out. BR fanboys have to realize the price difference is all licensing costs ... to sony.

QFT, adding that Sony is fixing the price, for all the aforementioned reasons (by me).

[Babies Need Tickets]

Originally Posted by tuff bob

I remember that there were HD-DVD players for $99 ... I tried to buy one but they were sold out. BR fanboys have to realize the price difference is all licensing costs ... to sony.

I don't think anyone doubts this. And as I said before, I don't even know which is the better technology, all things considered.

I do know, though, that in order to make people buy things you will have to price them accordingly. So that means the prices will probably come down. And that's really what this whole argument has been about.

[Goose17]

Originally Posted by tuff bob

I remember that there were HD-DVD players for $99 ... I tried to buy one but they were sold out. BR fanboys have to realize the price difference is all licensing costs ... to sony.

Agreed, I think the BR players will eventually go down in price but not for a while. Like Hex said, since the PS3 did so terrible in sales they obviously are going to want to make it back somehow. Since BR may have won the war; now is their chance. They have no good reason at this point to allow any BR players to go much under the price of a PS3. If anything, they had a better reason before when HD was still a strong competitor.

Also keep in mind that no matter how low the BR players ever get, the HD players would have been that much less.

[Trevor Barnes]

Originally Posted by hexydes

So then, what you're saying there is that, in theory, should HD-DVD go away, people will rally around Blu-Ray as a format. Doing this will drive sales of the PS3.

So obviously, the PS3 is what people are buying (if I understand correctly, because that is causing the PS3 to rebound). Sony clearly can't afford to lower the price of the PS3 any more than they already have (they're already losing tons of money on it as-is), so they're going to keep it at the $399 mark, maybe dropping to $349 by Christmas. And because they are using the PS3 as the main driver of Blu-Ray players, they will have to fix Blu-Ray prices very near that amount.

This is what I was saying before. You just agreed with me, when you were disagreeing before. That, or you somehow think I'm wrong, and that Sony will be able to cut the price of the PS3 in half somehow (I think you alluded to that before, that because they will theoretically be making licensing money from Blu-Ray, it will subsidize the price somehow)?

Which is also what I said, but then I was told I was wrong because people don't have broadband and thus this will not succeed.

Sure they can afford to lower the price. Components become cheaper and cheaper each quarter. Assuming that Blu-ray "wins", there will be sub-$300 and possibly near $200 Blu-ray standalone players by holiday season 2008. PS3 sales up until this point have helped Blu-ray's numbers, but a VAST MAJORITY of consumers with HDTVs are really just waiting for one format to "win".

[ShowtimeSparty]

Originally Posted by Goose17

I guess I am not understanding why everyone on the "Blu-Ray Team" in this thread is gloating like a bunch of elementary school students after they won a football game. All I can think is that you were all terribly worried that your 500 black monstrosity of a gaming machine might become obsolete and now that it isnt you can all wipe the sweat from your brows and thank god you didnt waste all that money on a blu-ray player with limited gaming.

I have an HD player and to be honest, I am just going to wait until all of the HD-DVDs go on clearance and buy every single one I want. Then at that point I will have enough to keep me happy until blu-ray players are as cheap as dvd players. Considering the fact that I already own hundreds of standard DVDs that my HD player can upconvert, I am sittin pretty IMO. I am not some sort of Video Quality snob who needs to prove his worth by having ONLY 1080P DVDs.

Anyways, I am with Hexydes on this, he is right. The two platforms are identical in video quality, but one is already down to 200 dollars. Everyone on here that is justifying the Blu-ray pricing by saying it will go down is a moron because while yes it will go down, if HD stayed around it will only go down even further as blu-ray does. Nothing hurts the consumer more than having only one option... Not to mention the media costing more as well. So while you are all sitting here calling him stupid for complaining, look at yourselves celebrating for getting to pay more for the exact same thing.

"Nothing hurts the consumer by having one option, huh!"

Just like these one options:
1. VHS over BETA - that hurt us
2. Microsoft Windows OS - that really, really hurt us
3. DVD format only one - that hurts SOOO BAD

You have no idea what you are talking about

[hexydes]

Originally Posted by Babies Need Tickets

I do know, though, that in order to make people buy things you will have to price them accordingly. So that means the prices will probably come down. And that's really what this whole argument has been about.

Yes, but if Sony wins the format war, then they won't be as inclined to lower the prices anymore. It will be as if it was back to 2004, when HD players first appeared. Sony will be happy to let the technology slowly catch up. They are going to be more concerned about pushing PS3's at this point.

Which, again, is what I have been saying. That is why I do not think the price will drop.

[hexydes]

Originally Posted by ShowtimeSparty

"Nothing hurts the consumer by having one option, huh!"

Just like these one options:
1. VHS over BETA - that hurt us
2. Microsoft Windows OS - that really, really hurt us
3. DVD format only one - that hurts SOOO BAD

You have no idea what you are talking about

What poor examples.

The difference here is that the two formats already constituted the competition. They were competing with each other, driving the price down. Now, Blu-Ray will be left alone to compete with itself. Prices will go down obviously, but at a much slower pace than they would if they had to compete with an outside technology.

Good try though.

[H.G. Pennypacker]

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

Sure they can afford to lower the price. Components become cheaper and cheaper each quarter. Assuming that Blu-ray "wins", there will be sub-$300 and possibly near $200 Blu-ray standalone players by holiday season 2008. PS3 sales up until this point have helped Blu-ray's numbers, but a VAST MAJORITY of consumers with HDTVs are really just waiting for one format to "win".

Consider me part of the vast majority. I was planning on buying an a dvd player of my new tv but decided to wait on either the HD or BluRay players because of the competition. If I can't get EVERY movie I want on my player, I'm going to wait it out until one wins. I just went with a cheaper upconverting one for the time being. I'm just glad one format is prevailing, I don't give a crap which one it is.

[tuff bob]

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

Sure they can afford to lower the price. Components become cheaper and cheaper each quarter. Assuming that Blu-ray "wins", there will be sub-$300 and possibly near $200 Blu-ray standalone players by holiday season 2008. PS3 sales up until this point have helped Blu-ray's numbers, but a VAST MAJORITY of consumers with HDTVs are really just waiting for one format to "win".

I don't believe we will see players below $250 in the near future, when you compare the "best" price of HD-DVD (99) and the best price for Blu-Ray (350?)

Sony has paid out a ton of money to "buy" a win for Blu-Ray, they're gonna to recover it in per-player licensing fees.

[Goose17]

Originally Posted by ShowtimeSparty

"Nothing hurts the consumer by having one option, huh!"

Just like these one options:
1. VHS over BETA - that hurt us
2. Microsoft Windows OS - that really, really hurt us
3. DVD format only one - that hurts SOOO BAD

You have no idea what you are talking about

You clearly read my post wrong. My exact quote was, "Nothing hurts the consumer more than HAVING ONLY one option..". By this I mean having only one option for the consumer is HARMFUL to the consumer. I am glad to see that you agree with me though.

[hexydes]

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

Sure they can afford to lower the price. Components become cheaper and cheaper each quarter. Assuming that Blu-ray "wins", there will be sub-$300 and possibly near $200 Blu-ray standalone players by holiday season 2008. PS3 sales up until this point have helped Blu-ray's numbers, but a VAST MAJORITY of consumers with HDTVs are really just waiting for one format to "win".

That applies to a normal technology though. Sony has tied two technologies together, the PS3, and Blu-Ray. Their entire premise is that the Blu-Ray will sell the PS3 as an add-on. They want Blu-Ray to win, simply so that they can use it to leverage the PS3 against the XBox.

And the main reason that is important is because Sony can't lower the price of the PS3 any more than they already do. They already lose a TON of money on it. And even if the components that constitute a "Blu-Ray player" get cheaper, Sony needs to sell PS3's. If they are letting the competition sell Blu-Ray players well-below the PS3, then Blu-Ray no longer helps to leverage the PS3 in any meaningful way; people would simply buy a 360 or a Wii, and then a $99 Blu-Ray player.

I don't know how to make that make any more sense here...

[Fat Green Sac]

one word comes to mind after reading this thread.

nerdfest.

[tuff bob]

Originally Posted by ShowtimeSparty

2. Microsoft Windows OS - that really, really hurt us

you'd be surprised how much that adds to the cost of a new PC.

[ShowtimeSparty]

Originally Posted by Goose17

You clearly read my post wrong. My exact quote was, "Nothing hurts the consumer more than HAVING ONLY one option..". By this I mean having only one option for the consumer is HARMFUL to the consumer. I am glad to see that you agree with me though.

I was being sarcastic, blueberryface!

Those things don't hurt us

[scimini]

Originally Posted by tuff bob

I don't believe we will see players below $250 in the near future, when you compare the "best" price of HD-DVD (99) and the best price for Blu-Ray (350?)

Sony has paid out a ton of money to "buy" a win for Blu-Ray, they're gonna to recover it in per-player licensing fees.

Funai have announced a low price Blu-ray player for the North American market. It is expected to hit retail stores during the second quarter for under $300.

It has BD-VIDEO Profile 1.1 that supports Picture-in-Picture, HDMI 1.3a,up-conversion from DVD to 1080p and a SD card slot. Sub $300 ($299.98 probably) isn't exactly cheap but its a step in the right direction. To quote:

Press Release
Funai Corporation, Inc., the North American sales and marketing subsidiary of Funai Electric Co., Ltd., today announced the introduction of its first Blu-ray Disc player (NB500 series) for the North American market.

The Company will begin production in the first quarter of 2008, and plans to begin selling the player at retail stores in North America during the second quarter. The retail price is projected to be under $300.

[Trevor Barnes]

Originally Posted by tuff bob

I don't believe we will see players below $250 in the near future, when you compare the "best" price of HD-DVD (99) and the best price for Blu-Ray (350?)

Sony has paid out a ton of money to "buy" a win for Blu-Ray, they're gonna to recover it in per-player licensing fees.

No they aren't. They're going to recover it in per-DISC licensing fees. They stand to make FAR MORE money from the sale of each disc than the sale of each player. It's in their best interest (similar to video game consoles) to flood the market with cheap players.

[Trevor Barnes]

Originally Posted by scimini

It has BD-VIDEO Profile 1.1 that supports Picture-in-Picture, HDMI 1.3a,up-conversion from DVD to 1080p and a SD card slot. Sub $300 ($299.98 probably) isn't exactly cheap but its a step in the right direction.

If that's the MSRP, it'll probably cost $250 or less.

[scimini]

Originally Posted by tuff bob

I don't believe we will see players below $250 in the near future, when you compare the "best" price of HD-DVD (99) and the best price for Blu-Ray (350?)

Sony has paid out a ton of money to "buy" a win for Blu-Ray, they're gonna to recover it in per-player licensing fees.

The last estimate I had seen was the Blu-Ray fee was $30 and the HD Fee was $12.

[tuff bob]

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

It's in their best interest (similar to video game consoles) to flood the market with cheap players.

not when it decimates the only reason people buy PS3s.

[Trevor Barnes]

Originally Posted by tuff bob

not when it decimates the only reason people buy PS3s.

The sales of Blu-ray movies, should it become the standard for HD movie purchases, FAR OUTWEIGHS the amount of cash that can be made by the PS3. Sony would get licensing fees for every single Blu-ray disc sold.

[misterorange]

Gamernode: News - Microsoft says Blu-ray for 360 is possible

[Goose17]

Originally Posted by ShowtimeSparty

I was being sarcastic, blueberryface!

Those things don't hurt us

Then you are just an idiot. How does having only one option for the consumer seem like a good idea to you. Your examples were terrible. If blu-ray becomes the only option (like VHS and others) then we are forced to either pick that or nothing else. With consumers only having an option of blu-ray or nothing, Sony has no reason to drop prices at a reasonable pace, sure they may eventually come down as their costs to produce go down but having a competitor that is constantly cheaper than blu-ray would force Sony to lower prices accordingly as HD did. Nice try.

[hexydes]

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

The sales of Blu-ray movies, should it become the standard for HD movie purchases, FAR OUTWEIGHS the amount of cash that can be made by the PS3. Sony would get licensing fees for every single Blu-ray disc sold.

And how much money is Sony losing on each PS3 sold currently? $200? $300? If they drop the price to something the market will willingly accept (which has been said to be between $100 and $200, so let's say $150), they would be losing upwards of $550 on each system sold! Granted, parts will come down a little, but even still, you're talking about losing $400+ on each console sold. Add to that the hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars they spent in getting studios on board that they now have to recoup.

So once again, either Sony will need to take a HUGE hit on how much they sell the PS3 for (and I don't care what you say, Blu-Ray movie disc sales will not make up for it, especially when there are no games for them to generate additional revenue off of), or they will have to artificially control the price of standalone Blu-Ray players.

[hexydes]

Just as an aside (displaying more Sony shenanigans), apparently Sony (among two others) is so proud of the quality of their games, they refuse to send reviewers who have given them negative reviews in the past, copies of new games to review.

Journalism: 3 Companies Bar EGM From Coverage Following Poor Reviews

But other than that...and the rootkit...and using copy-protection on DVDs that breaks their playback on some players...and exploding laptop batteries...they're basically a good company. I don't see why anyone SHOULDN'T trust them to make something consumers would like.

[scimini]

Those numbers were at the beginning, as the price of the components come down as the current $399 sales price did bring in over 1 Million sold during the holidays so I doubt the real price point is around 150-200.

According to Sony they will no longer lose money on every console sold during this year.