tOfficial Blu-ray vs. HD DVD discussion thread

[Winston Wolf]

Originally Posted by locd32

hex sounds like a disgruntled HD-DVD owner. Sorry you couldn't see this coming months ago but suck it up and get over it...

I felt the same way when my Sega Saturn got pimped by the Playstation

[hexydes]

Originally Posted by locd32

hex sounds like a disgruntled HD-DVD owner. Sorry you couldn't see this coming months ago but suck it up and get over it...

See what months ago? That HD-DVD might not pan out? I got my HD-DVD player two weeks ago; I'm still in the window of where I could return it if I wanted (though I'm not going to). I have no vested interest in this, other than the fact that I'm disgusted that Sony was able to somehow convince all of you that it is a good thing that their players are twice as much, their movies cost more, and that despite the fact that they are one of the ****tiest companies that has ever existed, you should be excited about the prospect that they would control every which way you will watch HD content.

[tuff bob]

The reason that Blu-Ray players have never gotten cheap is because of licensing costs. Only format competition can lower those prices.

[locd32]

Originally Posted by hexydes

Sony should probably use that money to recoup the $500+ million they have now spent bribing the studios to come to their format.



Again, they're just the ones that set the bar on where other manufacturers can price the players at. So at this point, Sony will need to decide whether it wants to sacrifice the console division, or risk artificially inflating prices and simply turning consumers off to an HD optical format altogether (and thus leaving the window open for a new technology to swoop in and fill the gap), thus negating all the money they spent on this little boondoggle of theirs.

You act like Toshiba didn't bribe Paramount to go HD-DVD only....

By having other Blu-Ray manufacturers in the market it creates competition. Being a state student/grad I hope you can understand the effects of that on the market. Also, Sony already does sacrifice it's console division. They lose hundreds of dollars per console. If that's not sacrificing the division then I don't know what is...

[hexydes]

Originally Posted by Babies Need Tickets

It's not. Go on Amazon right now and there are several Blu-Ray players below $350.

Oh, ok, I thought we were just talking about brick and mortar retailers. Fine, there is a Blu-Ray player for $340, and there is an HD-DVD player for $180. A week ago, you could have gotten that same HD-DVD player for $150.

HD-DVD players are cheaper. A LOT cheaper. And it is because Sony is holding the price up. Yes, when dealing with online retailers, they make special agreements with the understanding that shipping gets involved and raises the price back up to near PS3 levels again.

Your point?

[hexydes]

Originally Posted by Babies Need Tickets

No ****. I don't understand why anyone would have bought HD-DVD anyway. All I ever hear about is Blu-Ray.

So if all you heard was about Blu-Ray, it must be the better format then, right?

[Trevor Barnes]

Originally Posted by Babies Need Tickets

It's not. Go on Amazon right now and there are several Blu-Ray players below $350.

Yep. Samsung has a BD player for $299. A price point of around $300 doesn't scare me in the least. They'll be down to $200 or less by holiday season 2008.

[Trevor Barnes]

Originally Posted by hexydes

Oh, ok, I thought we were just talking about brick and mortar retailers. Fine, there is a Blu-Ray player for $340, and there is an HD-DVD player for $180. A week ago, you could have gotten that same HD-DVD player for $150.

HD-DVD players are cheaper. A LOT cheaper. And it is because Sony is holding the price up. Yes, when dealing with online retailers, they make special agreements with the understanding that shipping gets involved and raises the price back up to near PS3 levels again.

Your point?

HD-DVD players are going to get EVEN cheaper than that. Maybe there's a reason they were so cheap holiday season 2007.

Oh, and Amazon has FREE shipping on all those BD players.

[hexydes]

Originally Posted by locd32

You act like Sony didn't bribe Paramount to go HD-DVD only....

By having other Blu-Ray manufacturers in the market it creates competition. Being a state student/grad I hope you can understand the effects of that on the market. Also, Sony already does sacrifice it's console division. They lose hundreds of dollars per console. If that's not sacrificing the division then I don't know what is...

I take it you mean Toshiba, not Sony? At any rate, yes, they did bribe them. That isn't the point. The point is that Blu-Ray costs more and is majority-controlled by a company that hates you, and you're cheering about it.

Being a State grad, I hope you can see how having more and broader competition (i.e. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, rather than just Blu-Ray) would simply further support the point you were attempting to make.

If you can't see what I'm saying about Sony either needing to concede the console race or risk losing Blu-Ray to some soon-to-come technology, then I don't know what else to say. Sorry?

[Fish1988]

Originally Posted by hexydes

Oh, ok, I thought we were just talking about brick and mortar retailers. Fine, there is a Blu-Ray player for $340, and there is an HD-DVD player for $180. A week ago, you could have gotten that same HD-DVD player for $150.

HD-DVD players are cheaper. A LOT cheaper. And it is because Sony is holding the price up. Yes, when dealing with online retailers, they make special agreements with the understanding that shipping gets involved and raises the price back up to near PS3 levels again.

Your point?

Well, when I started paying attention to this last August when I got my HD tv, I don't recall the HD-DVD players being significantly cheaper. What I've observed over the last 4 months is a company desperate to increase sales, and so they significantly cut prices and offered a ton of free DVD's with each purchase to sweeten the deal. And they still couldn't compete with Blu-Ray.

[Winston Wolf]

Originally Posted by hexydes

See what months ago? That HD-DVD might not pan out? I got my HD-DVD player two weeks ago; I'm still in the window of where I could return it if I wanted (though I'm not going to). I have no vested interest in this, other than the fact that I'm disgusted that Sony was able to somehow convince all of you that it is a good thing that their players are twice as much, their movies cost more, and that despite the fact that they are one of the ****tiest companies that has ever existed, you should be excited about the prospect that they would control every which way you will watch HD content.

I think you're missing the point. I think people are just accepting of the fact that the battle is over and that Blu-ray won. If HD-DVD had won, then so be it, but they didn't so why dwell on it?

[hexydes]

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

Yep. Samsung has a BD player for $299. A price point of around $300 doesn't scare me in the least. They'll be down to $200 or less by holiday season 2008.

Which Samsung player can you by FROM AMAZON (i.e. not one of their shady e-tailers) for $299.99?

Honest question, I may be missing it on their page.

[Winston Wolf]

Originally Posted by hexydes

I take it you mean Toshiba, not Sony? At any rate, yes, they did bribe them. That isn't the point. The point is that Blu-Ray costs more and is majority-controlled by a company that hates you, and you're cheering about it.

Being a State grad, I hope you can see how having more and broader competition (i.e. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, rather than just Blu-Ray) would simply further support the point you were attempting to make.

If you can't see what I'm saying about Sony either needing to concede the console race or risk losing Blu-Ray to some soon-to-come technology, then I don't know what else to say. Sorry?

Sony hates me?

[hexydes]

Originally Posted by Fish1988

Well, when I started paying attention to this last August when I got my HD tv, I don't recall the HD-DVD players being significantly cheaper. What I've observed over the last 4 months is a company desperate to increase sales, and so they significantly cut prices and offered a ton of free DVD's with each purchase to sweeten the deal. And they still couldn't compete with Blu-Ray.

There was one thing HD-DVD couldn't compete with, and that was the money that Sony paid the studios to come to Blu-Ray (and extra content protection to sweeten that deal).

Blu-Ray outsold HD-DVD? What, 200,000 units to 100,000 units? 200,000 discs to 100,000 discs? Please. How many DVD players sold last year? Probably 7-10 million? How many discs sold? Probably 50-100 million? Sales statistics are nothing at this point, just numbers to try to confuse people into thinking someone has won or lost.

[locd32]

Originally Posted by hexydes

I take it you mean Toshiba, not Sony? At any rate, yes, they did bribe them. That isn't the point. The point is that Blu-Ray costs more and is majority-controlled by a company that hates you, and you're cheering about it.

Being a State grad, I hope you can see how having more and broader competition (i.e. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, rather than just Blu-Ray) would simply further support the point you were attempting to make.

If you can't see what I'm saying about Sony either needing to concede the console race or risk losing Blu-Ray to some soon-to-come technology, then I don't know what else to say. Sorry?

Actually multi format hurts the market. It confuses the consumer and they hold off on making a commitment. Marketing 101: Don't confuse the consumer....

[hexydes]

Originally Posted by TK421

Sony hates me?

Yes, but don't feel bad, they love your money, so as long as you have that, they'll at least pretend to like you.

[hexydes]

Originally Posted by locd32

Actually multi format hurts the market. It confuses the consumer and they hold off on making a commitment. Marketing 101: Don't confuse the consumer....

That's stupid. It's like saying there are two car companies, each making cars. One has a starting price of $60,000, one a starting price of $40,000. Very few people can afford them. Then the expensive one drops to $55,000, and the cheap one drops to $20,000. Then the expensive one drops to $50,000 and the cheap one drops to $15,000. People are starting to get interested in the cheap one when OOPS THE EXPENSIVE COMPANY BOUGHT ALL THE ROADS AND GAS STATIONS AND NOW THE CHEAP ONE CAN'T DRIVE ANYMORE.

Then the expensive company lowers the price of the car to $49,000, still way more than the cheap one.

So yes, multiple formats can be confusing to consumers, but at some price point, people will just jump in. We were at that price point with HD-DVD, and Sony basically colluded to destroy them. Now, you'll have to sit back and hope that Sony lowers the price to a point where the market accepts it again (around $100 to $150).

And to see why I don't think they'll do that, go back and read what I wrote previously.

[Trevor Barnes]

Originally Posted by hexydes

There was one thing HD-DVD couldn't compete with, and that was the money that Sony paid the studios to come to Blu-Ray (and extra content protection to sweeten that deal).

Blu-Ray outsold HD-DVD? What, 200,000 units to 100,000 units? 200,000 discs to 100,000 discs?

You're really off on those numbers hex.

Meanwhile, recent sales numbers discussed at the event illustrate some of the reasons why Warner made the decision that it did. Blu-ray Disc movie titles outsold HD DVD in the United States by a nearly 2-to1 margin last year, according to sales figures from Home Media Research. Moreover, Blu-ray titles outsold HD DVD in the United States every single week of 2007, and the Blu-ray editions of titles released on both formats consistently outsold their HD DVD counterparts, often by "significant" margins. Total domestic sales of Blu-ray movie titles topped six million in December 2007. It took 10 months for Blu-ray sales to reach the first one million; from there, every three months the format racked up another million titles sold. The last two million worth of discs sold occurred in the past month alone. By contrast, according to Home Media Research's numbers, HD DVD didn't reach the 2.5 million mark until mid-November.

Despite the lower price of HD DVD players, Blu-ray beat HD DVD in disc sales all year long. With this pie chart standing as it is, that's only going to get MUCH MUCH worse.

[hexydes]

Originally Posted by Babies Need Tickets

Okay, looking into this a little more, it seems that the 1080p HD-DVD players are roughly as expensive as the Blue-Ray players. It's only if you don't want 1080p that the players come down in price. (I see one 1080p HD-DVD player on Amazon for $250, but the rest are between $3-400.)

First, it's nice that you have the option even available, isn't it? My HDTV at home is not 1080p, so I don't need to pay $50 extra for that. Additionally, unless you have a really high-end 1080p display that is over 46", then 1080p is basically worthless to you.

And uh, yeah, that "only one" 1080p player you see for $247.53 is the main HD-DVD player made by Toshiba, so don't play it down like it is some knock-off brand that Duwhatsohita Corp makes. That's their main player, and it is over $100 cheaper than the cheapest Blu-Ray player on Amazon.

But again, most people at this point don't even have (or need) a 1080p display, so why should they pay extra for something that won't even show up? I think it is great that Toshiba and HD-DVD even have the option, whereas Sony and Blu-Ray don't.

[hexydes]

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

You're really off on those numbers hex.

Just throwing some proportional numbers out there. I'm sure they are way off in volume, but the point stands that despite whatever the numbers are, they vastly pale in comparison to what the market will eventually arrive at, so why bother? If Blu-Ray sold 20 discs, HD-DVD sold 10 discs, and DVD sold 100,000 discs, do the stats for HD-DVD or Blu-Ray really even matter at that point?

Despite the lower price of HD DVD players, Blu-ray beat HD DVD in disc sales all year long. With this pie chart standing as it is, that's only going to get MUCH MUCH worse.

Not the point I'm trying to make. I'm simply saying, the fact that some of you are almost ecstatic that Blu-Ray might "win", despite the fact that HD-DVD was better for the consumer in almost every aspect, is pretty alarming to me.

[Trevor Barnes]

Originally Posted by hexydes

Just throwing some proportional numbers out there. I'm sure they are way off in volume, but the point stands that despite whatever the numbers are, they vastly pale in comparison to what the market will eventually arrive at, so why bother? If Blu-Ray sold 20 discs, HD-DVD sold 10 discs, and DVD sold 100,000 discs, do the stats for HD-DVD or Blu-Ray really even matter at that point?

Not the point I'm trying to make. I'm simply saying, the fact that some of you are almost ecstatic that Blu-Ray might "win", despite the fact that HD-DVD was better for the consumer in almost every aspect, is pretty alarming to me.

As I've said, I don't care which format wins. BD+ and Sony's pricing don't scare me. It'll be $200 by the end of 2008 when I'll likely buy one. I just want the war to end, so any big move, and Warner was a BIG move, towards ending the war is good in my book.

[hexydes]

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

As I've said, I don't care which format wins. BD+ and Sony's pricing don't scare me. It'll be $200 by the end of 2008 when I'll likely buy one. I just want the war to end, so any big move, and Warner was a BIG move, towards ending the war is good in my book.

I suppose, as long as you don't care at all about the fact that Sony is controlling all of this, disagree (or disregard) my opinion that they will continue to artificially inflate prices on players and movies, and don't think they will continue to morph BD+ to make it much harder to do what you want with content (even if it is always crackable, they can make it very hard, which will take time to crack, which will inconvenience you immensely)...

...I suppose if you can get around all of that, then...I dunno, I guess I'm happy that you're happy? I'm certainly not. Most of that scares the **** out of me, but then again, I tend to be a realist in most situations. Hopefully it turns out in a way that you find favorable.

[Trevor Barnes]

Originally Posted by hexydes

I suppose, as long as you don't care at all about the fact that Sony is controlling all of this, disagree (or disregard) my opinion that they will continue to artificially inflate prices on players and movies, and don't think they will continue to morph BD+ to make it much harder to do what you want with content (even if it is always crackable, they can make it very hard, which will take time to crack, which will inconvenience you immensely)...

...I suppose if you can get around all of that, then...I dunno, I guess I'm happy that you're happy? I'm certainly not. Most of that scares the **** out of me, but then again, I tend to be a realist in most situations. Hopefully it turns out in a way that you find favorable.

Having said all that, are you at least conceding that this is nearly over? Any way you see this situation reversing itself?

[Spartan Superiority]

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

Having said all that, are you at least conceding that this is nearly over? Any way you see this situation reversing itself?

[Trevor Barnes]

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