Hoyer

[spartan80]

Originally Posted by GoStateNate

Gee that's a pretty epic post right there. if he plays a little better MSU has a better record. Wow. That's genius.

Him being a first year starter under a new system doesn't take time to adjust to or anything....

Hey genius, go back and check some of Dantonio's quotes after last season's losses, about making another play or two, and it being a game of inches, and MSU wins instead of loses. Often the player he was speaking to was his QB Hoyer, and the proof was in the pudding, when Hoyer hung in against PU, & PSU MSU turned things around. When Hoyer didn't make the plays, like first half PSU & the bowl game, then MSU was in trouble. Some things aren't rocket science, including a football team getting as far as it's QB can take it. Please don't say it isn't all the QB, obviously, but the QB IS USUALLY the keystone.

Also, compare Smoker's senior year to Hoyer's last year. Yes Smoker was a senior, but he was also coming back after a disasterous season that included rehab, and he ran a new system to an 8 - 4 record, setting a few MSU QB records in the process.

[rossmanp]

Originally Posted by spartan80

Hey genius, go back and check some of Dantonio's quotes after last season's losses, about making another play or two, and it being a game of inches, and MSU wins instead of loses. Often the player he was speaking to was his QB Hoyer, and the proof was in the pudding, when Hoyer hung in against PU, & PSU MSU turned things around. When Hoyer didn't make the plays, like first half PSU & the bowl game, then MSU was in trouble. Some things aren't rocket science, including a football team getting as far as it's QB can take it. Please don't say it isn't all the QB, obviously, but the QB IS USUALLY the keystone.

Also, compare Smoker's senior year to Hoyer's last year. Yes Smoker was a senior, but he was also coming back after a disasterous season that included rehab, and he ran a new system to an 8 - 4 record, setting a few MSU QB records in the process.

No one's debating your point, just pointing out the extreme simplicity of it. That's like saying I could've 4.0ed all my classes if only I had been smart enough to put down the right answers.

[Ozymandias]

Originally Posted by spartan80

Also, compare Smoker's senior year to Hoyer's last year. Yes Smoker was a senior, but he was also coming back after a disasterous season that included rehab, and he ran a new system to an 8 - 4 record, setting a few MSU QB records in the process.

Smoker also had about 2 whole seasons of starting under his belt when his senior year got underway. That makes a big difference as well.

[SpartanRocky]

Originally Posted by spartan80

Hey genius, go back and check some of Dantonio's quotes after last season's losses, about making another play or two, and it being a game of inches, and MSU wins instead of loses. Often the player he was speaking to was his QB Hoyer, and the proof was in the pudding, when Hoyer hung in against PU, & PSU MSU turned things around. When Hoyer didn't make the plays, like first half PSU & the bowl game, then MSU was in trouble. Some things aren't rocket science, including a football team getting as far as it's QB can take it. Please don't say it isn't all the QB, obviously, but the QB IS USUALLY the keystone.

Also, compare Smoker's senior year to Hoyer's last year. Yes Smoker was a senior, but he was also coming back after a disasterous season that included rehab, and he ran a new system to an 8 - 4 record, setting a few MSU QB records in the process.

First of all, substitute "MSU D" for "QB" in your post above to get a more accurate picture of our team last year. We had our best offense (Points per game) in the last 10 years. We scored enough to win almost every game (tOSU and BC are exceptions, IMHO) but our D, especially our Rush D (See NW, Iowa, tOSU, Wisky) let us down.

Your comparison to Smoker is faulty. Unlike Smoker, Hoyer didn't have an entire year of starting under his belt (2001 season). Granted Smoker missed the final 8 games of 2002, but he still had a full season more of starts by the time he came back in 2003 than Hoyer did this past year.

I'd compare Hoyer this year to Smoker as a Soph, first time starters, both won 7 games, Smoker went 6-5 and won the bowl game, Hoyer, by virtue of an extra game, went 7-5 and lost the bowl game. I fully expect an 8-4 or better season next year as it will be Hoyer's Senior year after having a year of starting.

[Spartan Savior]

Originally Posted by WCS

Bottom Line: Hoyer is the greatest QB* in the game*!!


*and by qb I mean 5th year senior on MSU's Men's football team.

As opposed to the women's football team?

[spartan80]

Great, so why don't you and Nate enlighten the rest of us.

[spartan80]

Originally Posted by SpartanRocky

First of all, substitute "MSU D" for "QB" in your post above to get a more accurate picture of our team last year. We had our best offense (Points per game) in the last 10 years. We scored enough to win almost every game (tOSU and BC are exceptions, IMHO) but our D, especially our Rush D (See NW, Iowa, tOSU, Wisky) let us down.

Your comparison to Smoker is faulty. Unlike Smoker, Hoyer didn't have an entire year of starting under his belt (2001 season). Granted Smoker missed the final 8 games of 2002, but he still had a full season more of starts by the time he came back in 2003 than Hoyer did this past year.

I'd compare Hoyer this year to Smoker as a Soph, first time starters, both won 7 games, Smoker went 6-5 and won the bowl game, Hoyer, by virtue of an extra game, went 7-5 and lost the bowl game. I fully expect an 8-4 or better season next year as it will be Hoyer's Senior year after having a year of starting.

Like I said, it isn't ALL the QB, the D was a liability last year, and if it plays a little better MSU beats um, finally, and NU, and Iowa. That said, everyone knew going into last season that the D was pretty shakey, and MSU's O was going to have to get the job done. Did the O get the job done against Iowa in the 2nd half, um in the first, PSU in the first or either half in the bowl game?

My bottom line is simply that Hoyer has yet to prove himself. He shows glimmers then has a PSU first half, or bowl game performance. We know what he can do, but don't know what he will do. If that's obvious that's great, but some don't think there's much question about Hoyer being the guy, others are convinced he's not.

[spartan80]

Originally Posted by Ozymandias

Smoker also had about 2 whole seasons of starting under his belt when his senior year got underway. That makes a big difference as well.

Not exactly, Van Dyke was a starter or played in about half the games Smokers sophmore year, until he got hurt vs. the Gophers. VD won the game vs ND. He was also the starter vs. Marshall Smoker's freshman year. Throw in the games that Dowdell started, and Smoker probably had a year's worth of starts.

Further, the point was about QB experience in a new system. Neither had game experience with the new system, though Smoker had more game experience.

[Ozymandias]

Originally Posted by spartan80

Not exactly, Van Dyke was a starter or played in about half the games Smokers sophmore year, until he got hurt vs. the Gophers. VD won the game vs ND. He was also the starter vs. Marshall Smoker's freshman year. Throw in the games that Dowdell started, and Smoker probably had a year's worth of starts.

Further, the point was about QB experience in a new system. Neither had game experience with the new system, though Smoker had more game experience.

My bad, I was off on the amount of starts he had. But he still had much more game experience, which is very valuable. He had 21 games in which he attempted at least 20 passes or more prior to his senior year. He might not have started all of them, but that is a very good amount of game experience.

[gerrard06]

Where Hoyer was subpar:
Pitt
first play at Notre Dame
first series at Purdue
1st half PSU
entire bowl game
entire O$U game
overtime NU

all in all decent year for first year QB with new system. He's got a NFL arm, let's see what he does with it this year.

[Cronos]

Hoyer looked pretty jacked in the OSU game (since he was playing in his home state) and was overthrowing a lot. The problem I saw was that we we're mostly throwing in 3rd and long situations with the D coming after him. Hoyer could never get into a rhythm throwing once per 3 and out series. The coaching staff should have recognized that and burned a series where Hoyer just threw short passes to help him settle down. I blame the OSU loss on hte coaches.

[Dorian]

I recall suspect play calling last year as well. Example, NU was gased in the 4th quarter and MSU quit giving Ringer the ball. They got cute with the play calls and it cost them.

Often Hoyer was put into situations, (play calls or what have you) where he wasn't in a position to suceed. He made a few poor decisions as well. Hopefully we see improvements in play calling and Hoyer's decision making - given this is his senior season.

[dhoffsparty]

Originally Posted by steveschneider

I took several liberties last season at calling out Hoyer during several of his poor performances last year. As far as I'm concerned this year is a clean slate.

Did anyone go to the Spring game? How did he look? I feel like so much for this year rides on his ability to improve.

Also, the video I watched seemed to jokey and loose. I hope Dantonnio hasn't got soft. I feel like he needs to consistenly 'beat' toughness into this team. That is all.

I was at the spring game and was very excited about what I saw. With no DT like receiver Hoyer spread the ball around better, and looked off safeties instead of just staring down his number 1 option. Looked solid on his WR screens, TE fly routes and especially on his 8 yr outs (even though our secondary still doesn't do a great job closing the gap, but they were better). I don't remember who said it but I thought all 3 looked like they were developing nicely (cousins over foles actually). We will have depth at QB this year, but I don't think we'll need it, unless the oline doesn't pan out. Overall the spring game got me excited for this season....the oline was the only weakness but it always will be in spring games. You carry 10-13 olinemen which means each team has to start depth at 50% of the position, not including Roland not playing and someone else that i can't remember. It's going to be a solid year this year, and hoyer will be solid again (as he was last year).

[Redwingenator]

Originally Posted by Cronos

Hoyer just needs to stop staring down his primary receiver and he'll be fine.

[JMSparty08]

Originally Posted by Ozymandias

Um, how exactly do you know that? Are you suggesting that they ran alot of 1 or 2 man routes?

Ozy, chill out man, but yes I am suggesting that, at times, there were a lot of 1 or 2 man routes.

[Ozymandias]

Originally Posted by JMSparty08

Ozy, chill out man, but yes I am suggesting that, at times, there were a lot of 1 or 2 man routes.

Well, what you are suggesting is ****ing insane and ridiculous. I didn't see the team leaving 8 and 9 men in to block very often.

[steveschneider]

Originally Posted by dhoffsparty

I was at the spring game and was very excited about what I saw. With no DT like receiver Hoyer spread the ball around better, and looked off safeties instead of just staring down his number 1 option. Looked solid on his WR screens, TE fly routes and especially on his 8 yr outs (even though our secondary still doesn't do a great job closing the gap, but they were better). I don't remember who said it but I thought all 3 looked like they were developing nicely (cousins over foles actually). We will have depth at QB this year, but I don't think we'll need it, unless the oline doesn't pan out. Overall the spring game got me excited for this season....the oline was the only weakness but it always will be in spring games. You carry 10-13 olinemen which means each team has to start depth at 50% of the position, not including Roland not playing and someone else that i can't remember. It's going to be a solid year this year, and hoyer will be solid again (as he was last year).

Question, how hard do they hit during the spring game? I'm assuming they let up a lot.

[Gary in Bradenton]

Originally Posted by Jaxon

Comp Att Yds % ypa lg td int sck Rating
223 376 2725 59.3 7.25 80 20 11 29 131.88

164 269 1807 61.0 6.72 46 12 10 19 124.68


I know this has been discussed ad-nauseum, but the top numbers are Brian Hoyer last season, the bottom numbers are Drew Stanton the year before.
And 4 of Hoyers 11 picks came in the final game. The kid had a great year. Too many of you are pointing at a bad game in the last game you saw him and evaluating his entire season based solely on that. Hell, Hoyers numbers are even comparable to Stanton's magnificent 2005 season.

236 354 3077 66.7 8.69 75 22 12 23 153.41

Cut the kid some damn slack. He doesnt need a clean slate, in fact if you cleaned his slate, it would be diminishing the accomplishments he has already attained as a solid BT QB.

Thanks for posting this. I was at the bowl game and Hoyer was late with reads, off with the timing on his passes and also his accuracy. In other words he suffered the same fate that many QB's suffer when they take 6 weeks off from game reps between end of season and bowl game, especially against a team that trotted out a pretty solid defense. The fact the 4th WR was some slow walk on with no game reps instead of Terry Love I believe cost him a TD.

He improved tremendously throughout the season and played extremely well against Purdue and very good against PSU in the comeback. Kid should be just fine this year.

[SpartanRocky]

Originally Posted by Gary in Bradenton

Thanks for posting this. I was at the bowl game and Hoyer was late with reads, off with the timing on his passes and also his accuracy. In other words he suffered the same fate that many QB's suffer when they take 6 weeks off from game reps between end of season and bowl game, especially against a team that trotted out a pretty solid defense. The fact the 4th WR was some slow walk on with no game reps instead of Terry Love I believe cost him a TD.

He improved tremendously throughout the season and played extremely well against Purdue and very good against PSU in the comeback. Kid should be just fine this year.

He needs to throw for 3000 yards, 30 TDs and no more than 2 INTs . . . and they better be at the end of the half going for a ballsy hail-mary TD. Otherwise, put in Foles! (Even though Cousins seems to be ahead of him)


Sincerely,

tRCMB

[JMSparty08]

Originally Posted by Ozymandias

Well, what you are suggesting is ****ing insane and ridiculous. I didn't see the team leaving 8 and 9 men in to block very often.

Just because they aren't running routes doesn't mean they are blocking. Matter of fact, that doesn't make sense and makes you sound like an idiot and know nothing about football when you assume that. Some routes are decoy routes where you try to take a DB or a LB away from the play even though you are not, and will not be, a target for the pass. Basically, it's done to get guys out of the "box" because if they all stayed in and blocked, it'd actually be EASIER for the defense to get into the backfield because, in case you haven't noticed, WRs don't block all that well. Especially when the defense is blitzing.

In addition to that, there were also plays where there would be only one or two receivers running routes at or beyond the first down yardage on 3rd down, the rest were short of that yardage and thus were not ideal targets for Hoyer when he's trying to pick up the first down.