tOfficial Champions League 2008 Final thread: Manchester United vs. Chelsea

[Heat Miser]

Originally Posted by Roewned

The US is the most developed country in the world, as are our sports. Track and tennis are also the more popular sports in Europe, as well as the world, are they more exciting than football, basketball and hockey

Isn't cricket popular world-wide? Sorry bud, that's a horrible argument.

According to what criteria & to whom? Many soccer fans think American sports are boring since it generally takes 3+ hours to play a 1 hour game in the timed sports. I guess all the TV timeouts & time between plays aren't included in the boring factor.

[Roewned]

Originally Posted by arfabe16

Or maybe it's designed for a different type of athlete, smart one.


Steve Nash dreamed of becoming a pro soccer player, just like his dad and his brother... however, he wasn't good enough and couldn't cut it. Now, he's one of the best basketball players on earth.

Chad Johnson's favorite sport is soccer, too... he couldn't cut it, so instead he became a borderline hall-of-fame WR.

I've never heard of a soccer player that dreamed of being anything but a soccer player.

I could turn the tables on that and say soccer players never dreamed of being anything but soccer players because it's the only major sport played in their respective countries (except for cricket and open wheel racing).

And they are probably incapable of succeeding at any other sport because they need to use their hands.

But some of them could be kickers in football, I guess.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Originally Posted by Roewned

I could turn the tables on that and say soccer players never dreamed of being anything but soccer players because it's the only major sport played in their respective countries (except for cricket and open wheel racing).

And they are probably incapable of succeeding at any other sport because they need to use their hands.

But some of them could be kickers in football, I guess.

I hope this is a joke.

[Roewned]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

So because you think a sport is more exciting, that automatically negates the opinions of billions of other people in the world?

I'm saying if there were an NBA, NFL, NHL and MLB equivalents in Africa and Europe soccer may not be the most popular sport in their respective countries.

Again, when your choices are soccer, rugby and cricket I can see why soccer is popular.

[Roewned]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

I hope this is a joke.

Why

[Taco John]

I normally hate penalties, and think that any match that goes to them is effectively ruined (see 2005 Champions League Final and 2006 FA Cup Final). But as far as contrived drama goes, that was good drama, and I don't even mind that it was contrived.

[Heat Miser]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

So because you think a sport is more exciting, that automatically negates the opinions of billions of other people in the world?

If Americans don't like it, then it doesn't count. And we wonder why the rest of the world hates us because?

BTW...I find hurling to be absolutely riveting. Seriously.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Originally Posted by Roewned

I'm saying if there were an NBA, NFL, NHL and MLB equivalents in Africa and Europe soccer may not be the most popular sport in their respective countries.

Again, when your choices are soccer, rugby and cricket I can see why soccer is popular.

have you ever heard of things like NFL Europe? The reason there aren't prominent leagues for all those sports on other continents is because those sports have caught on abroad. People have televisions. They can watch American sports - they're just not popular there. People don't enjoy them. It has nothing to do with lack of exposure, as you suggest.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Originally Posted by Roewned

Why

You think soccer players play soccer (and wouldn't be successful at other sports)because they aren't proficient at using their hands? I've heard a lot of anti-soccer arguments, and that may be the dumbest yet. Congratulations.

[Roewned]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

You think soccer players play soccer (and wouldn't be successful at other sports)because they aren't proficient at using their hands? I've heard a lot of anti-soccer arguments, and that may be the dumbest yet. Congratulations.

You said Nash and Johnson couldn't succeed at soccer, I said soccer players couldn't succeed in the NBA and NFL.

Just using your argument is all.

[Roewned]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

have you ever heard of things like NFL Europe? The reason there aren't prominent leagues for all those sports on other continents is because those sports have caught on abroad. People have televisions. They can watch American sports - they're just not popular there. People don't enjoy them. It has nothing to do with lack of exposure, as you suggest.

A sport catches on when you have successful, popular pro leagues. Did you just compare NFL Europe to the NFL

These sports aren't popular because they don't have the facilities and sport development to train and coach the players.

The US could develop all the soccer players they wanted, but there are more diverse and exciting paths for those athletes to take.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Originally Posted by Roewned

You said Nash and Johnson couldn't succeed at soccer, I said soccer players couldn't succeed in the NBA and NFL.

Just using your argument is all.

Please point out where I said that.

[Roewned]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

Please point out where I said that.

Steve Nash dreamed of becoming a pro soccer player, just like his dad and his brother... however, he wasn't good enough and couldn't cut it. Now, he's one of the best basketball players on earth.

Chad Johnson's favorite sport is soccer, too... he couldn't cut it, so instead he became a borderline hall-of-fame WR.

That wasn't you, but I'm having 3 different conversations here. My bad.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Originally Posted by Roewned

A sport catches on when you have successful, popular pro leagues. Did you just compare NFL Europe to the NFL

These sports aren't popular because they don't have the facilities and sport development to train and coach the players.

The US could develop all the soccer players they wanted, but there are more diverse and exciting paths for those athletes to take.

Why doesn't the NFL have ratings in Europe like it does in the US? BECAUSE PEOPLE AREN'T INTERESTED. They've seen it; they just don't enjoy it. It bores them the same way soccer bores you, except that they have a world of people to back them up, and you have only fellow Americans.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Originally Posted by Roewned

Steve Nash dreamed of becoming a pro soccer player, just like his dad and his brother... however, he wasn't good enough and couldn't cut it. Now, he's one of the best basketball players on earth.

Chad Johnson's favorite sport is soccer, too... he couldn't cut it, so instead he became a borderline hall-of-fame WR.

That wasn't you, but I'm having 3 different conversations here. My bad.

And he cited two specific examples of players who weren't successful in soccer being successful in American sports. What evidence do you have of Europeans or Africans being unsuccessful in other sports and then turning to soccer? Because until you present evidence, your argument about soccer players being unable to play other sports holds absolutely no weight.

[Roewned]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

Why doesn't the NFL have ratings in Europe like it does in the US? BECAUSE PEOPLE AREN'T INTERESTED. They've seen it; they just don't enjoy it. It bores them the same way soccer bores you, except that they have a world of people to back them up, and you have only fellow Americans.

If football were a part of their culture it would be the most popular sport in their countries.

watching a tape delayed game once a week is a horrible example of exposure. Let their kids play pop warner, give them the college experience to enjoy and then an NFL league and tell me it wouldn't succeed.

We have soccer at all levels and it's still a 2nd tier sport BECAUSE WE ARE EXPOSED TO EVERY SPORT IN THE WORLD AT ALL AGES.

I repeat, when your choices growing up are cricket, rugby and soccer it's no wonder soccer is the most popular sport.

That's an indictment on sports diveristy around the world, not a statement on the greatness of soccer.

[Heat Miser]

Originally Posted by Roewned

A sport catches on when you have successful, popular pro leagues. Did you just compare NFL Europe to the NFL

These sports aren't popular because they don't have the facilities and sport development to train and coach the players.

The US could develop all the soccer players they wanted, but there are more diverse and exciting paths for those athletes to take.

The arrogance is only rivaled by the ignorance. The European soccer stadiums could easily be used for American football if anyone was interested. The EPL supports twenty teams in a country smaller than California. Youth soccer is HUGE in the US, but there's no place for commercials every 5 minutes so it doesn't translate professionaly. Hockey is a great sport (very good pro leagues in Europe), but the action doesn't stop constantly for endless replays, analysis & advertisements so ESPN wants nothing to do with it. You watch & enjoy what TV dictates you watch & enjoy.

They just don't care for our games. Doesn't make 'em better or worse. Just different.

[facehead234]

These arguments are always the same. Soccer isn't catching on because we already have sports in place, and soccers rise will be slow. One world cup run won't make a difference. It has to be consistent. The youth base is absolutely there, but without a high level major league to watch (MLS is fun but it doesn't have the base of other sports). Once rivalries get more fierce and there are more oversees players playing here then things will develop.

My favorite sport growing up was soccer. My favorite sport ever and always will be soccer. But if i had the opportunity to watch a regular season MLS game or even a Primier league or UEFA cup game vs. Michigan State football....hands down MSU.

In my opinion (just an opinion) the people that bash on soccer generally suck at it. I.E. the kid that toe balls everything. Now i'm not saying they are unathetic or anything like that but the coordination for soccer is a lot different from....say football. I love when people call soccer slow and then go out and love baseball. Personally I HATE baseball...and i realize its because i didn't grow up playing it. I see overweight peopel palying first base and pitching. I think the same thing happens over and over again. But i realize the parallel people have with that and soccer. I realize that my biasis against baseball are becasue i didn't grow up playing it.

[facehead234]

Originally Posted by Roewned

If football were a part of their culture it would be the most popular sport in their countries.

watching a tape delayed game once a week is a horrible example of exposure. Let their kids play pop warner, give them the college experience to enjoy and then an NFL league and tell me it wouldn't succeed.

We have soccer at all levels and it's still a 2nd tier sport BECAUSE WE ARE EXPOSED TO EVERY SPORT IN THE WORLD AT ALL AGES.

I repeat, when your choices growing up are cricket, rugby and soccer it's no wonder soccer is the most popular sport.

That's an indictment on sports diveristy around the world, not a statement on the greatness of soccer.

I really do disagree with this. Soccer IS the most popular sport among the youth of america. Its the favorite...as well as the most played. But i feel like when people get to the high school and higher levels there wasn't a solid pro league to follow. I had pictures of MJ in my room because i could relate more to him than Maradonna. Soccer is popular in america...extremely then it fades.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Originally Posted by Heat Miser

The arrogance is only rivaled by the ignorance. The European soccer stadiums could easily be used for American football if anyone was interested. The EPL supports twenty teams in a country smaller than California. Youth soccer is HUGE in the US, but there's no place for commercials every 5 minutes so it doesn't translate professionaly. Hockey is a great sport (very good pro leagues in Europe), but the action doesn't stop constantly for endless replays, analysis & advertisements so ESPN wants nothing to do with it. You watch & enjoy what TV dictates you watch & enjoy.

They just don't care for our games. Doesn't make 'em better or worse. Just different.

No kidding. His sense of cultural superiority is absolutely ridiculous.

[Heat Miser]

Originally Posted by Roewned

If football were a part of their culture it would be the most popular sport in their countries.

watching a tape delayed game once a week is a horrible example of exposure. Let their kids play pop warner, give them the college experience to enjoy and then an NFL league and tell me it wouldn't succeed.

We have soccer at all levels and it's still a 2nd tier sport BECAUSE WE ARE EXPOSED TO EVERY SPORT IN THE WORLD AT ALL AGES.

I repeat, when your choices growing up are cricket, rugby and soccer it's no wonder soccer is the most popular sport.

That's an indictment on sports diveristy around the world, not a statement on the greatness of soccer.

Pure buffoonery. You are exposed to what TV chooses to expose you to.

[Roewned]

Originally Posted by Heat Miser

Pure buffoonery. You are exposed to what TV chooses to expose you to.

I played soccer for 3 summers as a kid. I was OK, nothing more, but it bored me so I stuck with football, baseball, basketball and hockey.

Tell me what European, Mexican, African or Asian kid has those options as a youth.

Your TV argument is garbage.

[05spartan]

Originally Posted by Roewned

The US is the most developed country in the world, as are our sports. Track and tennis are also the more popular sports in Europe, as well as the world, are they more exciting than football, basketball and hockey

Isn't cricket popular world-wide? Sorry bud, that's a horrible argument.

[arfabe16]

Originally Posted by Roewned

Tell me what European, Mexican, African or Asian kid has those options as a youth.

I grew up in Mexico, and I don't know of a single school that didn't have a basketball team.

Also, there are plenty of baseball leagues for kids.

Football would be the only "American" sport with lower exposure, as only kids in private clubs join the teams, usually.

But all the others... they're there. You're nuts if you think Latin Americans aren't exposed to basketball and especially baseball. Please, most of the best baseball players are Latin Americans.

Soccer is still more popular. A LOT more popular.

[Heat Miser]

Originally Posted by Roewned

I played soccer for 3 summers as a kid. I was OK, nothing more, but it bored me so I stuck with football, baseball, basketball and hockey.

Tell me what European, Mexican, African or Asian kid has those options as a youth.

Your TV argument is garbage.

It's really quite simple if you actually think about it. Soccer bored you because you had no constant exposure to professional examples of what was possible if you really excelled. You saw a half dozen hacks kicking at a ball but mostly kicking each other. Also, your dad likely had no interest in soccer & we all know how much a son wants to please his father.

Slightly different story with Football, BBall, Baseball.

You really think sports preferences are developed in a vacuum? C'mon...I suppose you also believe commissioners determine game days & times?