tOfficial Champions League 2008 Final thread: Manchester United vs. Chelsea

[Cyclone_MI]

Originally Posted by Roewned

I'm saying if there were an NBA, NFL, NHL and MLB equivalents in Africa and Europe soccer may not be the most popular sport in their respective countries.

Again, when your choices are soccer, rugby and cricket I can see why soccer is popular.

dude, I hope you are being this dumb on purpose...

[BleedinGreen]

I'm thinking we need a thread devoted to the silly season...anybody down?

[MiamiSpartan]

Originally Posted by sarcyspice

it is an interesting comparison you make there... with club football i think it is because we feel invested in it week in week out that we get so passionate about it, where as international are played once every couple of months, and you get passionate about it one summer in 2 or 4......

That's a big reason why college sports are so intense. I've often discussed this with United fans that I know over there. If you want something in the US that best compares to the atmosphere of European soccer, look to college football, not to any pro sports. Even the little things like a dedicated section for thousands of opposing fans is something that no other sport in the US has. Tailgating can be compared to the atmosphere at the pubs near the grounds prior to games. You have singing, chanting, and overall people have a personal connection to the school or club.

While in my previous example, I compared basketball because of the dull nature of the NBA compared to the amazing excitement of the NCAA tournament, college FOOTBALL is a much better comparison in terms of atmosphere. Generally speaking the atmosphere is still better for most soccer games, but with ticket prices forcing real fans out and bandwagoners in, the atmosphere at the big clubs has been going downhill steadily for several years.

[arfabe16]

Originally Posted by BleedinGreen

I'm thinking we need a thread devoted to the silly season...anybody down?

what do you mean the silly season?

Last year we just used the main general soccer thread to discuss the soccer tournaments.

Only games that had their own threads were the UCL final and I believe someone (not a soccer fan) made a USA vs. Mexico thread... those games were just bigger.

I think the main general soccer thread will do just fine for the most part of the summer. Most CONCACAF qualifying games + whatever's left of Libertadores + most games in the European Cup + transfer news will only result in a few posts.

However, we'll definitely need an individual thread for the European Cup final.

[arfabe16]

Originally Posted by sarcyspice

it is an interesting comparison you make there... with club football i think it is because we feel invested in it week in week out that we get so passionate about it, where as international are played once every couple of months, and you get passionate about it one summer in 2 or 4......

I don't know... it's hard to just say that one is better than the other or that one makes people more passionate.

Like, Rangers and Celtic fans are some of the most diehard, stupid, all-out-all-the-time fans, so you'd assume they care about their clubs more than anything... but I don't know of a single Scottish person that didn't know absolutely nuts when they scored against Brazil in 1998. Celtic fans and Ranger fans cheering together... only international competition can make this happen.

Also... I've been lucky to be present at the stadium for both of Santos Laguna's championships in Mexico (sadly, I'll miss it this year if they win--tonight they play the first leg of the semifinals) and I can tell you that the emotion was incredible. I've never been so tense/excited/crazy/nervous during a space of 90 minutes. After the games, I couldn't sleep for those nights and kept watching replays, etc. and went out to the streets to celebrate with thousands of people.

BUT I know that if Mexico ever won the World Cup, I'd go 100000 times as crazy, and it would be like a freaking national holiday. The country wouldn't sleep for about a week, and the players would be national heroes.

I guess club competition is more personal, but international competition unites everyone under national pride. Fans that wanted to kill each other a few weeks ago come together as one during international competition. It's simply amazing, and I still don't think that there is a sporting event better than the World Cup.

We'll get a taste of it this summer with the European Cup, which, for those that don't follow soccer regularly, may actually be a higher-level tournament (in terms of quality--maybe not intensity) than the World Cup itself.

[drogba]

Originally Posted by BleedinGreen

I'm thinking we need a thread devoted to the silly season...anybody down?

To discuss transfer?

Or Grant leaving Chelsea

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Originally Posted by drogba

To discuss transfer?

Or Grant leaving Chelsea

HEY! Nice of you to show up in this thread. Too bad you couldn't show up in the game yesterday, and had to be a douche instead. Thanks for nothing. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

[go_disc_golf]

First soccer game I've watched since the WC. Very entertaining! High drama!

I felt bad for Terry until I read that he makes like 150,000 B.P. per week.

[BleedinGreen]

Originally Posted by arfabe16

what do you mean the silly season?

Last year we just used the main general soccer thread to discuss the soccer tournaments.

Only games that had their own threads were the UCL final and I believe someone (not a soccer fan) made a USA vs. Mexico thread... those games were just bigger.

I think the main general soccer thread will do just fine for the most part of the summer. Most CONCACAF qualifying games + whatever's left of Libertadores + most games in the European Cup + transfer news will only result in a few posts.

However, we'll definitely need an individual thread for the European Cup final.

Silly season = Summer Transfer Window

A thread dedicated to transfers.

For Chelsea:
Huntelaar, Benzema, Gomez, Messi and Ronaldinho in...

Pizarro out...sounds about right.

[MiamiSpartan]

arfabe, I can only speak for Manchester United fans, but far and away the majority United fans could care less about England (and yes, I'm talking about the English United fans, not the United fans in other countries). Club Before Country is the cry. Some songs/chants heard round Old Trafford include:

"That Boy Ronaldo, Makes England look ****e" (reference to WC06)
"We all know United are better than England"
"You can stick your f'ing England up your arse"
"Did you cheer when Beckham scored" (from years past when English fans were beyond obscene to him when he was with United, but then cheered him when he played for England, like the hypocrites they are).

Most United fans still root for England over other teams, but ultimately don't care and aren't really vested in it. I kind of get the impression that the most passionate England fans are those who support small clubs, especially non-premiership clubs, as England is their time in the limelight to follow something big. I could be wrong, though, but it's just an observation I've made.

I realize this isn't necessarily common with most countries. Maybe it's an English thing. I'm reminded of something that Simon said during the American Idol auditions (the only time I watch the show, for the comedy of it). He said something to the effect of, "What really amazes me about this country is that you are genuinely happy for someone else when they do well."

As a side note, I also preferred club before country when it comes to hockey. I hate when Wings players take off during the middle of the season for the Olympics, as it makes them more tired down the road. Slava Kozlov was always a bit of a hero of mine when he declined to play for Russia in 98 because he wanted to stay healthy and focused on the Stanley Cup.

[BleedinGreen]

Originally Posted by MiamiSpartan

arfabe, I can only speak for Manchester United fans, but far and away the majority United fans could care less about England (and yes, I'm talking about the English United fans, not the United fans in other countries). Club Before Country is the cry. Some songs/chants heard round Old Trafford include:

"That Boy Ronaldo, Makes England look ****e" (reference to WC06)
"We all know United are better than England"
"You can stick your f'ing England up your arse"
"Did you cheer when Beckham scored" (from years past when English fans were beyond obscene to him when he was with United, but then cheered him when he played for England, like the hypocrites they are).

Most United fans still root for England over other teams, but ultimately don't care and aren't really vested in it. I kind of get the impression that the most passionate England fans are those who support small clubs, especially non-premiership clubs, as England is their time in the limelight to follow something big. I could be wrong, though, but it's just an observation I've made.

I realize this isn't necessarily common with most countries. Maybe it's an English thing. I'm reminded of something that Simon said during the American Idol auditions (the only time I watch the show, for the comedy of it). He said something to the effect of, "What really amazes me about this country is that you are genuinely happy for someone else when they do well."

As a side note, I also preferred club before country when it comes to hockey. I hate when Wings players take off during the middle of the season for the Olympics, as it makes them more tired down the road. Slava Kozlov was always a bit of a hero of mine when he declined to play for Russia in 98 because he wanted to stay healthy and focused on the Stanley Cup.

I think for English fans, and me not being English I'm kind of talking out of my ass, the reason for the lack of caring is that they are soooo cynical at this point. They're almost like Lions fans in a way. They still go and still sell out the stadium but there is such an aura of fail around the team that people just don't get as into it. When you have a similar but more successful product, unfortunatly for the purposes of comparison UofM football, that will likely get a lions share of the "insane fans."

I've also heard your theory about the club teams being more important than the national team but in regards to Spain. The obsession people have with their clubs along with the political fracturing of the country have led some people to believe that has something to do with Spain's lack of success in the WC and Euro.

[sarcyspice]

Originally Posted by arfabe16

I don't know... it's hard to just say that one is better than the other or that one makes people more passionate.

Like, Rangers and Celtic fans are some of the most diehard, stupid, all-out-all-the-time fans, so you'd assume they care about their clubs more than anything... but I don't know of a single Scottish person that didn't know absolutely nuts when they scored against Brazil in 1998. Celtic fans and Ranger fans cheering together... only international competition can make this happen.

Speaking of which...... I'll be in a pub full of Celtic and Rangers fans tonight....
Final League Deciders tonight....
Dundee United vs Celtic on 1 set of TV's,
70 miles up the road...Aberdeen Vs Rangers on the other set of TV's......
Celtic and Rangers are tied on points.... Celtic have a +3 goal difference Advantage..
helicopter with trophy in mid air to take it to the winning ground.

Scotland is one of the anomilies that they are proud and mad about there national team because of the hundreads of years of history....

as for the silly season.... I think Arsenal has been linked with half of europe already.....

[Topopo]

Originally Posted by arfabe16

I don't know... it's hard to just say that one is better than the other or that one makes people more passionate.

Like, Rangers and Celtic fans are some of the most diehard, stupid, all-out-all-the-time fans, so you'd assume they care about their clubs more than anything... but I don't know of a single Scottish person that didn't know absolutely nuts when they scored against Brazil in 1998. Celtic fans and Ranger fans cheering together... only international competition can make this happen.

I can attest to that. I am part Scottish and I know a lot of Scottish people and they go mad for the tartan army. In Scotland there is no club-v-country. It is club and country. An Old Firm player can become a hero to me when he plays for Scotland when I normally hate him (except for Kirk Broadfoot, if he ever plays for Scotland I will vomit). I am not as die-hard Scotland as many of my Scottish fans because I am still American but they all go mad for their country and it shows in their play. A country as small as Scotland technically has no business qualifying for the 98 World Cup or leading a EURO qualifying group that includes Italy and France but the passion they play with and the support they get from their countrymen drive them on. That is something that is missing in many other teams, sports, and nations.

However, arfabe I think many of the Celtic and Rangers fans you are referring to are probably just glory hunters that have never lived in Glasgow in their lives.

[arfabe16]

Originally Posted by MiamiSpartan

arfabe, I can only speak for Manchester United fans, but far and away the majority United fans could care less about England (and yes, I'm talking about the English United fans, not the United fans in other countries). Club Before Country is the cry. .

Well, but Manchester United fans are crazy and think they live in the "Republic of Mancunia" or whatever the hell they call it.

It's like Barcelona fans with Spain... they could care less, and they're Catalanes, not Spaniards (at least in their minds).


Those two are weird exceptions though.

[Topopo]

Originally Posted by arfabe16

Well, but Manchester United fans are crazy and think they live in the "Republic of Mancunia" or whatever the hell they call it.

It's like Barcelona fans with Spain... they could care less, and they're Catalanes, not Spaniards (at least in their minds).


Those two are weird exceptions though.

This reminds me of Texas

[sarcyspice]

Originally Posted by BleedinGreen

For English fans, and me not being English I'm kind of talking out of my ass, the reason for the lack of caring is that they are soooo cynical at this point. They're almost like Lions fans in a way. They still go and still sell out the stadium but there is such an aura of fail around the team that people just don't get as into it.

I've also heard your theory about the club teams being more important than the national team but in regards to Spain. The obsession people have with their clubs along with the political fracturing of the country have led some people to believe that has something to do with Spain's lack of success in the WC and Euro.

Living in england I don't know if I would say that..... The thing with England and Spain is that they are both Classic "underachievers" when it comes to international football... they both have the talent, but unlike italy for example don't know how to "get it done"

if england are doing well, this country goes ballistic... Euro 96 for that semi everyone was in a pub......WC 2002 in Japan... everyone was in a pub for the quarter final vs brazil...at 7am!!!! Euro2004,the quarter final between portugal the hosts and england.... 3/4 or that gound was english (trust me.. I was there!!!) WC 2006, if you get 100,000 people travelling to germany without any chance of getting tickets and just going, you'd think it was bonkers.......

[Fletch]

Originally Posted by arfabe16

However, we'll definitely need an individual thread for the European Cup final.

This is the national team tournament, correct? When does that one start? And who are the faves? Teams like Italy, Germany and England, I assume?

[Heat Miser]

Originally Posted by Fletch

This is the national team tournament, correct? When does that one start? And who are the faves? Teams like Italy, Germany and England, I assume?

This is the one Yzerman's teammates got him tix to for his jersey retirement.

[tacojohn]

Originally Posted by MiamiSpartan

arfabe, I can only speak for Manchester United fans, but far and away the majority United fans could care less about England (and yes, I'm talking about the English United fans, not the United fans in other countries). Club Before Country is the cry. Some songs/chants heard round Old Trafford include:

"That Boy Ronaldo, Makes England look ****e" (reference to WC06)
"We all know United are better than England"
"You can stick your f'ing England up your arse"
"Did you cheer when Beckham scored" (from years past when English fans were beyond obscene to him when he was with United, but then cheered him when he played for England, like the hypocrites they are).

Most United fans still root for England over other teams, but ultimately don't care and aren't really vested in it. I kind of get the impression that the most passionate England fans are those who support small clubs, especially non-premiership clubs, as England is their time in the limelight to follow something big. I could be wrong, though, but it's just an observation I've made.

I realize this isn't necessarily common with most countries. Maybe it's an English thing. I'm reminded of something that Simon said during the American Idol auditions (the only time I watch the show, for the comedy of it). He said something to the effect of, "What really amazes me about this country is that you are genuinely happy for someone else when they do well."

As a side note, I also preferred club before country when it comes to hockey. I hate when Wings players take off during the middle of the season for the Olympics, as it makes them more tired down the road. Slava Kozlov was always a bit of a hero of mine when he declined to play for Russia in 98 because he wanted to stay healthy and focused on the Stanley Cup.

I think most basketball fans are like this, via a totally different route, as it relates to USA Basketball. I know I certainly don't want any Pistons playing in the Olympics, especially considering how many games they play. But with USA Basketball, it's more like there's been so much success that gold medals are expected, and it's impossible to get excited about.