tOfficial Champions League 2008 Final thread: Manchester United vs. Chelsea

[sarcyspice]

Originally Posted by T.C.O.B.

A few questions I have regarding this.........

1) Will there be riots before/during/after the game? Assuming yes, will it be the police's fault, like the EL riots were?

2) How many guys will feign broken legs and then get right up? Vegas has the over/under line at 44. Thoughts?

3) When a ball goes out of bounds and either team throws it in, or has a corner kick and does not immediately score, can we all chime in and talk about what crappy coaches each team has because they do not score on out of bounds plays/corner kicks ?

4) Why is this game in Russia? Do they have a team in the Premiership?

I am a little bit of a soccer fan.....can someone please enlighten me as to who will be playing for these teams that the casual fan might know of? I assume no Americans will be on the field, but saw a post that Ashley Cole (England?) might play. I also see that there is a picture of Cristiano Ronaldo (Portugal).

TIA

1) depends on who loses.... if man united loses the answer will be no, if chelsea loses it could get "interesting"

2) it will only be Drogba and Ronaldo rolling round... the rest of them are actually quite honest...

3) yep... welcome to the world of the "football" fan... if we are not moaning about something, we are not trying hard enough!!!

4) think of it like the final four... the venue is picked like years ahead... just happens to be in moscow.... lucky united/chelsea..... when arsenal got to the final a few years ago we all had a jolly to Paris......

[sarcyspice]

Originally Posted by NAWMAN1

Im trying to get into the EPL but the whole damn thing seems confusing. After reading wikipedia (and maybe thats my problem), It seems that the EPL gets 4 bids to the Champions League, yet the method for determining those 4 seems screwy. Not to mention how they select teams for the UEFA Cup.

Then there is the whole 4 trophys that an EPL team can win in a year, and how teams are selected for those competitions, and my head is swimmin...

okay.... simple version to help you get your head around things....

The 3 top nations get 4 spots for the champions league based on the UEFA co-efficent (basically how well your clubs have done in european competition in the last 5 years)

The top 3 are countries are England, Italy and Spain

In england:

The top 2 in the League go straight into the Champions League group stages,
The next 2 (3 and 4) go into the Champions League Final Qualifying stages... win and They are in the group stage.... lose and they are in the UEFA cup
The next one (5) goes into the UEFA cup
The next one (6) goes into the intertoto cup... to qualify for the UEFA cup
The winner of the League cup goes into the UEFA cup
The winner of the FA cup goes into the UEFA cup

that is the basics..... then it gets more complicated.....

[BleedinGreen]

Originally Posted by sarcyspice

okay.... simple version to help you get your head around things....

The 3 top nations get 4 spots for the champions league based on the UEFA co-efficent (basically how well your clubs have done in european competition in the last 5 years)

The top 3 are countries are England, Italy and Spain

In england:

The top 2 in the League go straight into the Champions League group stages,
The next 2 (3 and 4) go into the Champions League Final Qualifying stages... win and They are in the group stage.... lose and they are in the UEFA cup
The next one (5) goes into the UEFA cup
The next one (6) goes into the intertoto cup... to qualify for the UEFA cup
The winner of the League cup goes into the UEFA cup
The winner of the FA cup goes into the UEFA cup

that is the basics..... then it gets more complicated.....

You might also want to add that the winner of the FA and League cup is often one of the top 4 clubs so the UEFA slots all move down. Also in the group stage of the CL you must finish 3rd in your group to go into the UEFA cup. 4th place is out of Europe for good.

[mattricide]

Dude, Man U v the Nancies? I don't know who I want to lose more. I guess I will just cheer for a natural disaster that swallows the pitch.

[Sparticane]

Originally Posted by mattricide

Dude, Man U v the Nancies? I don't know who I want to lose more. I guess I will just cheer for a natural disaster that swallows the pitch.

I second this.

[Adrock]

Originally Posted by mattricide

Dude, Man U v the Nancies? I don't know who I want to lose more. I guess I will just cheer for a natural disaster that swallows the pitch.

[SAVspartan]

Originally Posted by mattricide

Dude, Man U v the Nancies? I don't know who I want to lose more. I guess I will just cheer for a natural disaster that swallows the pitch.

Then the Arsenal will come to Moscow and take the trophy so Arsene gets us some silverware this year

[SpartyHerd]

Originally Posted by SAVspartan

Then the Arsenal will come to Moscow and take the trophy so Arsene gets us some silverware this year

Nah - the Hoops will come and claim the silverware before burying the Huns hopes of the SPL title tomorrow.

[sarcyspice]

Originally Posted by BleedinGreen

You might also want to add that the winner of the FA and League cup is often one of the top 4 clubs so the UEFA slots all move down. Also in the group stage of the CL you must finish 3rd in your group to go into the UEFA cup. 4th place is out of Europe for good.

ssssssh.... I was trying to keep it simple.... if i start talking about that, and UEFA fair play places and the what not you'll give em all a headache......

[sarcyspice]

Originally Posted by mattricide

Dude, Man U v the Nancies? I don't know who I want to lose more. I guess I will just cheer for a natural disaster that swallows the pitch.

rather than a natural diaster... I want jihad.....

[dokesmsu]

Originally Posted by Spartan07

Many say that the influx of foreigners has enhanced the Premier League yet these two teams have a larger English contingent than the other top 4 teams, if I'm not mistaken.

Discuss.

I think you are mistaken, these are players that often start for ManU:

ManU - Van der Sar (Netherlands), Evra, Silvestre, Saha (France), Vidic (Serbia & Montenegro), Tevez (Argentina), C Ronaldo, Nani, Anderson (Portugal), Fletcher (Scotland), Park (S. Korea), Giggs (Wales), O'Shea (Ireland), Pique (Spain), Kuszczak (Poland) as opposed to Rooney, Hargeaves, Carrick, Scholes, Ferdinand, Brown, Neville...

Chelsea's got a bunch too, I think they each have a nice balance of international flavor.

FTR, I'm wearing my Rooney kit loud and proud today

UNITED!

[Topopo]

Originally Posted by dokesmsu

I think you are mistaken, these are players that often start for ManU:

ManU - Van der Sar (Netherlands), Evra, Silvestre, Saha (France), Vidic (Serbia), Tevez (Argentina), C Ronaldo, Nani (Portugal), Anderson (Brazil), Fletcher (Scotland), Park (S. Korea), Giggs (Wales), O'Shea (Ireland), Pique (Spain), Kuszczak (Poland), Dong (China) as opposed to Rooney, Hargeaves, Carrick, Scholes, Ferdinand, Foster, Brown, Neville, Eagles (England)

9 English to 16 Foreign. Not sure what to make of that but there it is.

[MiamiSpartan]

Originally Posted by dokesmsu

I think you are mistaken, these are players that often start for ManU:

ManU - Van der Sar (Netherlands), Evra, Silvestre, Saha (France), Vidic (Serbia & Montenegro), Tevez (Argentina), C Ronaldo, Nani, Anderson (Portugal), Fletcher (Scotland), Park (S. Korea), Giggs (Wales), O'Shea (Ireland), Pique (Spain), Kuszczak (Poland) as opposed to Rooney, Hargeaves, Carrick, Scholes, Ferdinand, Brown, Neville...

Chelsea's got a bunch too, I think they each have a nice balance of international flavor.

FTR, I'm wearing my Rooney kit loud and proud today

UNITED!

While I'm glad you're rooting for United, WTF are you talking about with regard to the players?

- Silvestre and Saha rarely have played this year, and neither ever start unless there are serious injuries (and Saha himself is usually injured).
- Anderson is from Brazil, not Portugal. And he rarely starts.
- Nani comes off the bench more often than he starts.
- O'Shea never starts (except when there are injuries)
- Pique never starts (except when there are injuries)
- Kuczack never starts (except when there are injuries)
- Giggs doesn't start much anymore
- Rooney starts over Tevez if a choice needs to be made between the two.
- Carrick, Ferdinand and Brown start most games, and Scholes starts more often than not.

And no United fan should ever refer to the club as "ManU". That is an insult. Read here for a well done explanation: United Lounge - the best football forum and discussion board for Manchester United and other soccer fans

My line up for this game would be
Van der Saar
Evra Vidic Ferdinand Brown (maybe Hargreaves, but Brown has been playing well)
Ronaldo Carrick Scholes Park
Tevez Rooney


If Sir Alex goes with a 4-5-1, I'd replace Park with Hargreaves in the middle and move Tevez back to left wing. Though he's a natural forward, Tevez runs balls out and needs to be out there. He was a stud in a similar role against Barcelona.

[GenoV]

I'm jacked for this one...taking a late lunch to catch it. I've got no alliances to any Euro teams, so just hoping for a classic match to remember.

[BleedinGreen]

Looks like we will see Essien at RB today.

Now will it be Obi Wan or Maka in the holding role?

My guess:

---------Cech------------
Essien-JT------Carv--Cole
---------Maka-----------
---Ballack------Lamps----
-Cole-------------Kalou--
--------Drogba----------

Kalou gets the hook early in the second half and maka comes off for Belletti. 4-4-2 with Essien, Ballack, Lamps and Cole in Midfield. Anelka and Drogba up front.

[Topopo]

Originally Posted by MiamiSpartan

While I'm glad you're rooting for United, WTF are you talking about with regard to the players?

- Silvestre and Saha rarely have played this year, and neither ever start unless there are serious injuries (and Saha himself is usually injured).
- Anderson is from Brazil, not Portugal. And he rarely starts.
- Nani comes off the bench more often than he starts.
- O'Shea never starts (except when there are injuries)
- Pique never starts (except when there are injuries)
- Kuczack never starts (except when there are injuries)
- Giggs doesn't start much anymore
- Rooney starts over Tevez if a choice needs to be made between the two.
- Carrick, Ferdinand and Brown start most games, and Scholes starts more often than not.

My line up for this game would be
Van der Saar
Evra Vidic Ferdinand Brown (maybe Hargreaves, but Brown has been playing well)
Ronaldo Carrick Scholes Park
Tevez Rooney


If Sir Alex goes with a 4-5-1, I'd replace Park with Hargreaves in the middle and move Tevez back to left wing. Though he's a natural forward, Tevez runs balls out and needs to be out there. He was a stud in a similar role against Barcelona.

I think that will be the line-up too. What do you mean never starts unless of injuries? In modern football a squad must be made up of more then 11 "starter quality players" because over the course of the year players will be in and out due to form and injuries. Any squad player can be considered a starter at any given time.

[MiamiSpartan]

Originally Posted by Topopo

9 English to 16 Foreign. Not sure what to make of that but there it is.

And Chelsea have 7 English to 19 Foreign.

Honestly, in terms of foreign players, over-spending for players, etc., Chelsea blow everyone in the Premiership away.

[MiamiSpartan]

Originally Posted by Topopo

I think that will be the line-up too. What do you mean never starts unless of injuries? In modern football a squad must be made up of more then 11 "starter quality players" because over the course of the year players will be in and out due to form and injuries. Any squad player can be considered a starter at any given time.

I mean that they will almost never start in a big game unless injuries to other players force them to. They're not ever going to be the manager's first choice to start this season. My point was to counter the statement that they "often start". I do not mean to denigrate them as anything less than valuable members of the team. The guy who never plays at all is just as crucial as the guy who starts every game, because he busts his hump in practice and helps get those starters ready to play.

[BleedinGreen]

Originally Posted by MiamiSpartan

And Chelsea have 7 English to 19 Foreign.

Honestly, in terms of foreign players, over-spending for players, etc., Chelsea blow everyone in the Premiership away.

*cough*Arsenal*cough*

[JMSparty08]

GO CHELSEA!!

[Topopo]

Originally Posted by MiamiSpartan

I mean that they will almost never start in a big game unless injuries to other players force them to. They're not ever going to be the manager's first choice to start this season. My point was to counter the statement that they "often start". I do not mean to denigrate them as anything less than valuable members of the team. The guy who never plays at all is just as crucial as the guy who starts every game, because he busts his hump in practice and helps get those starters ready to play.

"Often starts" is relative though. I see your point but I would classify Saha as often starting because at the beginning of the year he was first choice and if he could stay injury free he would have made 20ish appearances this season (even though he would have lost his starting spot to Teves). Squad players can easily be classified as often starting but that isn't really an exact term so it is kind of pointless to argue over. Not trying to be a smart ass but you probably should not have railed on the guy for saying often starts even though he clearly isn't up 100% on his facts (Anderson's nationality and the ManU thing).

On a side note I see players that work hard in training and never contribute in matches as a bit of a waste of wages. If you are not good enough to competently deputize your position and contribute to the team in matches, then you are a waste of wages and your spot could be filled by a hungry youngster with more promise and would benefit from the experience of training with the first team. That is just my opinion though and it may be skewed by my perception from someone who supports a club that is much smaller than ManU.

[JMSparty08]

Originally Posted by dokesmsu

I think you are mistaken, these are players that often start for ManU:

ManU - Van der Sar (Netherlands), Evra, Silvestre, Saha (France), Vidic (Serbia & Montenegro), Tevez (Argentina), C Ronaldo, Nani, Anderson (Portugal), Fletcher (Scotland), Park (S. Korea), Giggs (Wales), O'Shea (Ireland), Pique (Spain), Kuszczak (Poland) as opposed to Rooney, Hargeaves, Carrick, Scholes, Ferdinand, Brown, Neville...

Chelsea's got a bunch too, I think they each have a nice balance of international flavor.

FTR, I'm wearing my Rooney kit loud and proud today

UNITED!

Got my Terry jersey to counter you sir.

Tough to root against Rooney since he's probably my favorite player and he is exactly four days older than me. I have his England National team jersey.

[MiamiSpartan]

Originally Posted by BleedinGreen

*cough*Arsenal*cough*

Could be. I haven't looked at the roster all that closely, but thought that with the youth movement they had more English guys.

[MiamiSpartan]

Originally Posted by Topopo

"Often starts" is relative though. I see your point but I would classify Saha as often starting because at the beginning of the year he was first choice and if he could stay injury free he would have made 20ish appearances this season (even though he would have lost his starting spot to Teves). Squad players can easily be classified as often starting but that isn't really an exact term so it is kind of pointless to argue over. Not trying to be a smart ass but you probably should not have railed on the guy for saying often starts even though he clearly isn't up 100% on his facts (Anderson's nationality and the ManU thing).

On a side note I see players that work hard in training and never contribute in matches as a bit of a waste of wages. If you are not good enough to competently deputize your position and contribute to the team in matches, then you are a waste of wages and your spot could be filled by a hungry youngster with more promise and would benefit from the experience of training with the first team. That is just my opinion though and it may be skewed by my perception from someone who supports a club that is much smaller than ManU.

Fair enough point on the first paragraph. I guess what raised my ire a bit was that he is a United fan, but at the same time he seemed to be ripping United for starting so many foreigners. He said these guys "often start"....(proceeded to list a bunch of international players)...."as opposed to Rooney, Hargeaves, Carrick, Scholes, Ferdinand, Brown, Neville..." The English players he listed (apart from Neville due to injury this year) are much more regular starters than a lot of the internationals that he mentioned.

Regarding the second paragraph, I wasn't necessarily referring to well paid players who only contribute in practice. I wouldn't like it if Hargreaves, for example, only contributed in practice, but rarely played (or played like crap when he did get on). I was referring more to the young players and/or the squad players that don't show up on the stat sheets a lot, but contribute even when they aren't making it into games.

[BleedinGreen]

Originally Posted by MiamiSpartan

Could be. I haven't looked at the roster all that closely, but thought that with the youth movement they had more English guys.

To the best of my knowledge the only Englishman who even makes their bench is Walcott but I could be wrong.