Woody Hayes as MSU's Coach?

[MrSpartan]

I was just reading Woody Hayes' biography on Wikipedia because I wanted to find out more about "The Punch" and I wondered what if instead of hiring Muddy Waters in 1980 would the MSU athletic department have considered hiring Woody Hayes and giving him a second chance? I wasn't alive back then but I wonder if that could have changed MSU's football fortunes going into the 1980s and avoided Perles eventually becoming head coach? Was it even a possibility? I see it as it would have gave Hayes the chance to go up against Bo and scUM for a few more years and repair his image. I know Hayes hated scUM but was it just the Wolverines he hated or anything from Michigan?

[Gary in Bradenton]

He hated MSU too. Hell, he put us on probation because we beat them for a recruit and beat them in 74.

[goodbar]

Originally Posted by Gary in Bradenton

He hated MSU too. Hell, he put us on probation because we beat them for a recruit and beat them in 74.

Truth. That S.O.B.

[IGGcitable]

Originally Posted by MrSpartan

I was just reading Woody Hayes' biography on Wikipedia because I wanted to find out more about "The Punch" and I wondered what if instead of hiring Muddy Waters in 1980 would the MSU athletic department have considered hiring Woody Hayes and giving him a second chance? I wasn't alive back then but I wonder if that could have changed MSU's football fortunes going into the 1980s and avoided Perles eventually becoming head coach? Was it even a possibility? I see it as it would have gave Hayes the chance to go up against Bo and scUM for a few more years and repair his image. I know Hayes hated scUM but was it just the Wolverines he hated or anything from Michigan?

About as much as we considered hiring Ayatollah Khomeini.

Woody Hayes, more than any single individual, is responsible for the f$#$#ked-up condition of MSU football, even to this day.

[Green Genes]

I think this song should answer your question:

Songs of The Ohio State University - We Don't Give a Damn for the Whole State of Michigan

It is interesting to note that they say um views MSU as their "true rival"

Originally Posted by MrSpartan

I was just reading Woody Hayes' biography on Wikipedia because I wanted to find out more about "The Punch" and I wondered what if instead of hiring Muddy Waters in 1980 would the MSU athletic department have considered hiring Woody Hayes and giving him a second chance? I wasn't alive back then but I wonder if that could have changed MSU's football fortunes going into the 1980s and avoided Perles eventually becoming head coach? Was it even a possibility? I see it as it would have gave Hayes the chance to go up against Bo and scUM for a few more years and repair his image. I know Hayes hated scUM but was it just the Wolverines he hated or anything from Michigan?

[Venice Spartan]

Originally Posted by Gary in Bradenton

He hated MSU too. Hell, he put us on probation because we beat them for a recruit and beat them in 71, 72 & 74.

Fixed it


74 was just the last straw

[Pablo Fanque]

Originally Posted by goodbar

Truth. That S.O.B.

He didn't hate us when we sent OSU to the Rose Bowl instead of that "school up north."

Woody Hayes was a piece of ****, from everything I've heard or read about the guy.

[IGGcitable]

Originally Posted by Sparticane

Exaggeration of the week.

Woody Hayes ---------------------------> Catastrophic NCAA Probation

Catastrophic NCAA Probation ---------------------> Firing of Denny Stolz

Firing of Denny Stolz ----------------> Firing of AD Burt Smith

Firing of Burt Smith ----------------------> Hiring AD of Joe Kearney

Hiring of Joe Kearney -----------------> Hiring of Daryl Rogers

Hiring of Joe Kearney -------------------> Eventual resignation of Kearney

Resignation of Kearney --------------> Daryl Rogers abruptly goes to Arizona State

Daryl Rogers abruptly goes to Arizona State -------------> MSU offers job to Perle$$$$$$

MSU offers job to Perle$$$$$ ------------------> Perle$$$$ abruptly bails out and decides not to take job

Perle$$$$ abruptly bails out and decides not to take job---------------> Muddy Waters is hired as a last-minute panic choice

Muddy Waters is hired as a last-minute panic choice-------------> Perle$$$$ disciples sabotage and sandbag Waters his entire tenure at MSU ----------> Waters fails disastrously

Waters fails disastrously--------------------------> Perle$$$$ is hired at MSU

Perle$$$$ is hired at MSU -------------------> Perles is basically mediocre until finally winning the Rose Bowl in Year 5, is mediocre again in Year 6, has decent seasons in Year 7 and 8, extorts the AD job and a new contract, and basically decides to coast

Perle$$$ basically decides to coast --------------> Perle$$$ fails disastrously

Perle$$$ fails disastrously ------------------>$$$$$aban is brought in

$$$$$$aban is brought in ------------------> $$$$$aban is basically mediocre until having a good season in Year 5, upon which he immediately bolts for LSU.

$$$$$$$$$$$aban bolts for LSU ----------------> Bobby Williams is made coach

Bobby Williams is made coach --------------> Bobby Williams fails disastrously

Bobby Williams fails disastrously -------------> Bobby Williams is fired

Bobby Williams is fired ------------------> Perle$$$/$$$aban devotees demand a Perle$$$/$$aban devotee as head coach but instead Ron Mason hires John L. Smith.

Ron Mason hires John L. Smith --------> Perle$$$/$$$aban devotees sabotage and sandbag Smith every day of his entire tenure ----------------> John L. Smith fails disastrously.

John L. Smith fails disastrously -----------------------> Dantonio is hired, and basically has to start over from Ground Zero.

MSU's program is in just about exactly the same shape it was in, in 1976, when Woody Hayes pretty much single-handedly railroaded MSU into one of the most severe probations in NCAA history. A lot of $#$# has happened since then, and a lot of people had their fingers in the stew, but the whole goddamn chain reaction was kicked off by Woody Hayes.

[shackmsu]

Igg, I don't often agree with you, but the above flow chart is fairly accurate. Nice job.

[WCS]

Originally Posted by IGGcitable

Woody Hayes ---------------------------> Catastrophic NCAA Probation

Catastrophic NCAA Probation ---------------------> Firing of Denny Stolz

Firing of Denny Stolz ----------------> Firing of AD Burt Smith

Firing of Burt Smith ----------------------> Hiring AD of Joe Kearney

Hiring of Joe Kearney -----------------> Hiring of Daryl Rogers

Hiring of Joe Kearney -------------------> Eventual resignation of Kearney

Resignation of Kearney --------------> Daryl Rogers abruptly goes to Arizona State

Daryl Rogers abruptly goes to Arizona State -------------> MSU offers job to Perle$$$$$$

MSU offers job to Perle$$$$$ ------------------> Perle$$$$ abruptly bails out and decides not to take job

Perle$$$$ abruptly bails out and decides not to take job---------------> Muddy Waters is hired as a last-minute panic choice

Muddy Waters is hired as a last-minute panic choice-------------> Perle$$$$ disciples sabotage and sandbag Waters his entire tenure at MSU ----------> Waters fails disastrously

Waters fails disastrously--------------------------> Perle$$$$ is hired at MSU

Perle$$$$ is hired at MSU -------------------> Perles is basically mediocre until finally winning the Rose Bowl in Year 5, is mediocre again in Year 6, has decent seasons in Year 7 and 8, extorts the AD job and a new contract, and basically decides to coast

Perle$$$ basically decides to coast --------------> Perle$$$ fails disastrously

Perle$$$ fails disastrously ------------------>$$$$$aban is brought in

$$$$$$aban is brought in ------------------> $$$$$aban is basically mediocre until having a good season in Year 5, upon which he immediately bolts for LSU.

$$$$$$$$$$$aban bolts for LSU ----------------> Bobby Williams is made coach

Bobby Williams is made coach --------------> Bobby Williams fails disastrously

Bobby Williams fails disastrously -------------> Bobby Williams is fired

Bobby Williams is fired ------------------> Perle$$$/$$$aban devotees demand a Perle$$$/$$aban devotee as head coach but instead Ron Mason hires John L. Smith.

Ron Mason hires John L. Smith --------> Perle$$$/$$$aban devotees sabotage and sandbag Smith every day of his entire tenure ----------------> John L. Smith fails disastrously.

John L. Smith fails disastrously -----------------------> Dantonio is hired, and basically has to start over from Ground Zero.

MSU's program is in just about exactly the same shape it was in, in 1976, when Woody Hayes pretty much single-handedly railroaded MSU into one of the most severe probations in NCAA history. A lot of $#$# has happened since then, and a lot of people had their fingers in the stew, but the whole goddamn chain reaction was kicked off by Woody Hayes.

quoted for truth

[IGGcitable]

Originally Posted by Sparticane

You people are bat **** crazy. There is WAY too much **** in that flow chart that MSU had control of themselves to put the blame of this huge mess on Woody ****ing Hayes. The part at which MSU has control starts about 1/4 of the way down the chart. As many around here say, "take ownership." The guy had an effect on us, but it's OUR fault that the ripple went that far, not HIS.

Pretty much all the stupid decisions since then have been overreactions (in various degree) to the original 1976 probation.

Getting back to the original point, there may have been some point at which MSU could say, "OK that's it, Woody Hayes has nothing whatsoever to do with our current problems," but let me tell you unconditionally, that time had not yet come in Jan.-Feb. 1980, when Daryl Rogers took off for Arizona State.

And there was no way in flaming freaking hell anybody at MSU ever thought for 1/100,000th of a second of considering Woody Hayes for the football coaching job. If anybody had ever even breathed the thought out loud, they would have been instantly lynched and hung by the heels from the railing of the Farm Lane bridge.

[Sir Denis Eton-Hogg]

I have read enough MSU lore to not have missed the Perles / Waters hiring decision / debacle. Where is ANY kind of proof except for iggy and his use of the shift key and his hatred for Perles/Saban?

[va slim]

Perles stayed too long.....

When Saban left, the team went into a tailspin....

I still say it was Bo that put the team where it is today.

[Shining Example]

Originally Posted by IGGcitable

Woody Hayes ---------------------------> Catastrophic NCAA Probation

Catastrophic NCAA Probation ---------------------> Firing of Denny Stolz

Firing of Denny Stolz ----------------> Firing of AD Burt Smith

Firing of Burt Smith ----------------------> Hiring AD of Joe Kearney

Hiring of Joe Kearney -----------------> Hiring of Daryl Rogers

Hiring of Joe Kearney -------------------> Eventual resignation of Kearney

Resignation of Kearney --------------> Daryl Rogers abruptly goes to Arizona State

Daryl Rogers abruptly goes to Arizona State -------------> MSU offers job to Perle$$$$$$

MSU offers job to Perle$$$$$ ------------------> Perle$$$$ abruptly bails out and decides not to take job

Perle$$$$ abruptly bails out and decides not to take job---------------> Muddy Waters is hired as a last-minute panic choice

Muddy Waters is hired as a last-minute panic choice-------------> Perle$$$$ disciples sabotage and sandbag Waters his entire tenure at MSU ----------> Waters fails disastrously

Waters fails disastrously--------------------------> Perle$$$$ is hired at MSU

Perle$$$$ is hired at MSU -------------------> Perles is basically mediocre until finally winning the Rose Bowl in Year 5, is mediocre again in Year 6, has decent seasons in Year 7 and 8, extorts the AD job and a new contract, and basically decides to coast

Perle$$$ basically decides to coast --------------> Perle$$$ fails disastrously

Perle$$$ fails disastrously ------------------>$$$$$aban is brought in

$$$$$$aban is brought in ------------------> $$$$$aban is basically mediocre until having a good season in Year 5, upon which he immediately bolts for LSU.

$$$$$$$$$$$aban bolts for LSU ----------------> Bobby Williams is made coach

Bobby Williams is made coach --------------> Bobby Williams fails disastrously

Bobby Williams fails disastrously -------------> Bobby Williams is fired

Bobby Williams is fired ------------------> Perle$$$/$$$aban devotees demand a Perle$$$/$$aban devotee as head coach but instead Ron Mason hires John L. Smith.

Ron Mason hires John L. Smith --------> Perle$$$/$$$aban devotees sabotage and sandbag Smith every day of his entire tenure ----------------> John L. Smith fails disastrously.

John L. Smith fails disastrously -----------------------> Dantonio is hired, and basically has to start over from Ground Zero.

MSU's program is in just about exactly the same shape it was in, in 1976, when Woody Hayes pretty much single-handedly railroaded MSU into one of the most severe probations in NCAA history. A lot of $#$# has happened since then, and a lot of people had their fingers in the stew, but the whole goddamn chain reaction was kicked off by Woody Hayes.

[monty4msu]

When i first read this thread, i thought the question was, did MSU consider Woody instead of Duffy. And what impact would that have made on MSU football. Duffy was the right man for the job at the time, his only problem was leaving the cupboard bare when he left. As a result, the only way to catch up in the eyes of Stolz was to cheat. Most (self included) would say that Stolz didnt do anything that Woody, Bo, ect... were doing. The problem was that Woody blew the whistle and MSU football paid the price, and is still paying the price today. Woody is no friend of MSU football.

[radarfour]

lets not get too far off this planet!!...look back and see who was chairman
of the NCAA committee that gave MSU the death penalty!!!! I think you
will find it was the MSU, NCAA faculty representative....JUST MAYBE
this was a "family feud " and the " F _ _ _er " from ohio only strarted it...
MSU infighting finished it !!

[NorthSpartanCarolina]

Originally Posted by IGGcitable

Woody Hayes ---------------------------> Catastrophic NCAA Probation

Catastrophic NCAA Probation ---------------------> Firing of Denny Stolz

Firing of Denny Stolz ----------------> Firing of AD Burt Smith

Firing of Burt Smith ----------------------> Hiring AD of Joe Kearney

Hiring of Joe Kearney -----------------> Hiring of Daryl Rogers

Hiring of Joe Kearney -------------------> Eventual resignation of Kearney

Resignation of Kearney --------------> Daryl Rogers abruptly goes to Arizona State

Daryl Rogers abruptly goes to Arizona State -------------> MSU offers job to Perle$$$$$$

MSU offers job to Perle$$$$$ ------------------> Perle$$$$ abruptly bails out and decides not to take job

Perle$$$$ abruptly bails out and decides not to take job---------------> Muddy Waters is hired as a last-minute panic choice

Muddy Waters is hired as a last-minute panic choice-------------> Perle$$$$ disciples sabotage and sandbag Waters his entire tenure at MSU ----------> Waters fails disastrously

Waters fails disastrously--------------------------> Perle$$$$ is hired at MSU

Perle$$$$ is hired at MSU -------------------> Perles is basically mediocre until finally winning the Rose Bowl in Year 5, is mediocre again in Year 6, has decent seasons in Year 7 and 8, extorts the AD job and a new contract, and basically decides to coast

Perle$$$ basically decides to coast --------------> Perle$$$ fails disastrously

Perle$$$ fails disastrously ------------------>$$$$$aban is brought in

$$$$$$aban is brought in ------------------> $$$$$aban is basically mediocre until having a good season in Year 5, upon which he immediately bolts for LSU.

$$$$$$$$$$$aban bolts for LSU ----------------> Bobby Williams is made coach

Bobby Williams is made coach --------------> Bobby Williams fails disastrously

Bobby Williams fails disastrously -------------> Bobby Williams is fired

Bobby Williams is fired ------------------> Perle$$$/$$$aban devotees demand a Perle$$$/$$aban devotee as head coach but instead Ron Mason hires John L. Smith.

Ron Mason hires John L. Smith --------> Perle$$$/$$$aban devotees sabotage and sandbag Smith every day of his entire tenure ----------------> John L. Smith fails disastrously.

John L. Smith fails disastrously -----------------------> Dantonio is hired, and basically has to start over from Ground Zero.

MSU's program is in just about exactly the same shape it was in, in 1976, when Woody Hayes pretty much single-handedly railroaded MSU into one of the most severe probations in NCAA history. A lot of $#$# has happened since then, and a lot of people had their fingers in the stew, but the whole goddamn chain reaction was kicked off by Woody Hayes.

Nice flow chart!

[Ralph_Wiggum]

Originally Posted by IGGcitable

About as much as we considered hiring Ayatollah Khomeini.

Woody Hayes, more than any single individual, is responsible for the f$#$#ked-up condition of MSU football, even to this day.

I think a lot of that blame should go toward Clifton Wharton. He had a disdain for athletics and he is most likely most to blame. The real serious inter-department fighting happened under his watch.

[IGGcitable]

Originally Posted by Ralph_Wiggum

I think a lot of that blame should go toward Clifton Wharton. He had a disdain for athletics and he is most likely most to blame. The real serious inter-department fighting happened under his watch.

Clifton Wharton was responsible for the "bend-over-and-take-it" attitude of MSU toward the NCAA, throwing ourselves at their mercy even though it was obvious they were out to bury us, when we should have launched a full-scale nuclear attack on the NCAA's methods of investigation and enforcement, which utterly disregard the constitutional rights of virtually everybody involved, which presume guilt on the word of "anonymous"
informers/complainants such as Woody Hayes, who engineer Star Chamber investigations and penalties according to their own whim, and use the NCAA to their own ends as a result of their privileged status as "favorite sons" and "golden boys" of the organization, with a massive multi-hundred-million dollar lawsuit which would have sought to nuke the NCAA down to the blocks.

Since then, the authoritarian/conservative courts mainly appointed by Nixon/Reagan have basically taken the atttiude, "the powers that be know what's good for you so sit down and STFU," and pretty much upheld the authority of the NCAA to do whatever the f$#$k it wants, so any such suit would be hopeless today.

But in the more liberal days of the early 70s, a lot of judges wanted to "uphold the rights of the common man," so a lawsuit seeking to blast the NCAA out of the water would have had a lot better chance of prevailing.

But instead, Wharton decided MSU had to bend over and take it.

[scimini]

What if they hadn't shied away from Switzer, what if Osborne could have persuaded his assistants to come the first time or out of retirement the second time. We can play these what if games all year with the football program.

And the potential coaches are just a part of the what ifs.