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07-02-2008, 12:14 PM
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#1 (permalink)
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 Mark Dantonio
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Any Electricians in the house?
I have to install GFCI outlets in my kitchen before our house is inspected in a day or two. Seems pretty straight forward, I've done plenty of simple electrical stuff (switches, outlets, lights, even re-wired my shop), but I can't figure this out. Here are the details:
There are two cables (4 wires plus ground) feeding this outlet. I know which cable is lead and which is load. I have tested this by hooking up the lead only and the outlet tests fine. When I install the load, it trips.
I know I could just the blacks together and whites together and pig tail it to the outlet, but there are several others down the line I'm hoping to avoid replacing, and, GODDAMMIT, this should work!!
Anybody have any thoughts?
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07-02-2008, 12:17 PM
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#2 (permalink)
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#45 Andrew Hawken
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Make sure to leave the master switch on while you are installing the new outlets as you will be able to fell the power 
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07-02-2008, 12:20 PM
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#3 (permalink)
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Zeke the Wonderdog
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put the GFCI at the receptacle nearest the power supply on each run, putting any upstream from there is just duplication
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07-02-2008, 12:22 PM
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#4 (permalink)
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Mark Dantonio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Statepug
put the GFCI at the receptacle nearest the power supply on each run, putting any upstream from there is just duplication
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Yep, that is what I'm doing.
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07-02-2008, 12:23 PM
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#5 (permalink)
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Zeke the Wonderdog
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Sorry to highjack the thread, but I have a question for electricians too.
I ran an extension cord from an outlet in my Garage to our camper. No juice. I go to check to make sure it's plugged in, and noticed the rest of the power was out in the Garage too. I tried flipping the breaker a few times, but still nothing.
What now??
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07-02-2008, 12:24 PM
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#6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane Izzo
I have to install GFCI outlets in my kitchen before our house is inspected in a day or two. Seems pretty straight forward, I've done plenty of simple electrical stuff (switches, outlets, lights, even re-wired my shop), but I can't figure this out. Here are the details:
There are two cables (4 wires plus ground) feeding this outlet. I know which cable is lead and which is load. I have tested this by hooking up the lead only and the outlet tests fine. When I install the load, it trips.
I know I could just the blacks together and whites together and pig tail it to the outlet, but there are several others down the line I'm hoping to avoid replacing, and, GODDAMMIT, this should work!!
Anybody have any thoughts?
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GFCI's are polarity sensetive (hot, neutral and ground) Be sure that is correct. You should have 6 wires (2 black, 2 white and 2 bare) Tie the bares together and attach them to the GFI. I have had more than a few GFI's just be "bad" right out of the box. Try another one? Also, if you wire in a standard receptacle, does everything down the line work? Is the breaker good? You can get a polarity checker for a few dollars....
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07-02-2008, 12:26 PM
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#7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanWilder
Sorry to highjack the thread, but I have a question for electricians too.
I ran an extension cord from an outlet in my Garage to our camper. No juice. I go to check to make sure it's plugged in, and noticed the rest of the power was out in the Garage too. I tried flipping the breaker a few times, but still nothing.
What now??
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If the outlet is exterior and done correctly, you have a tripped GFCI either in the garage or in the house. I've seen garage outlets back-wired to a GFCI as far back as the kitchen.
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07-02-2008, 12:27 PM
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#8 (permalink)
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Mark Dantonio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lundssv16
GFCI's are polarity sensetive (hot, neutral and ground) Be sure that is correct. You should have 6 wires (2 black, 2 white and 2 bare) Tie the bares together and attach them to the GFI. I have had more than a few GFI's just be "bad" right out of the box. Try another one? Also, if you wire in a standard receptacle, does everything down the line work? Is the breaker good? You can get a polarity checker for a few dollars....
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The bares are tied together and grounded to the outlet. I'm definitely putting the right colors to the right spot on the outlet and have tried a second GFI just to be sure. Still no resolution.
Prior to doing this, I had an old outlet in there and it was working fine (as was everything down the line).
Seriously, this shouldn't be rocket science and I am  and that I've wasted over an hour on it.
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07-02-2008, 12:30 PM
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#9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane Izzo
The bares are tied together and grounded to the outlet. I'm definitely putting the right colors to the right spot on the outlet and have tried a second GFI just to be sure. Still no resolution.
Prior to doing this, I had an old outlet in there and it was working fine (as was everything down the line).
Seriously, this shouldn't be rocket science and I am and that I've wasted over an hour on it. |
Just because the colors are correct does not mean they are the right polarity. You CAN make a white wire "hot" Try reversing the load sides colors. Worst case is you pop the breaker in the panel.
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07-02-2008, 12:31 PM
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#10 (permalink)
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Mark Dantonio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lundssv16
GFCI's are polarity sensetive (hot, neutral and ground) Be sure that is correct. You should have 6 wires (2 black, 2 white and 2 bare) Tie the bares together and attach them to the GFI. I have had more than a few GFI's just be "bad" right out of the box. Try another one? Also, if you wire in a standard receptacle, does everything down the line work? Is the breaker good? You can get a polarity checker for a few dollars....
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So, given that the GFI tests fine with just the lead cable attached, it seems to me that the polarity is fine. Given that installing the load cable didn't cause a big spark, I'm thinking that is fine too.
Is this some issue with a short somewhere down the line? How can I tell?
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07-02-2008, 12:31 PM
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#11 (permalink)
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Mark Dantonio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lundssv16
Just because the colors are correct does not mean they are the right polarity. You CAN make a white wire "hot" Try reversing the load sides colors. Worst case is you pop the breaker in the panel.
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I actually thought of that and tried it. Got a nice big spark and popped the circuit breaker.
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07-02-2008, 12:33 PM
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#12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane Izzo
I have to install GFCI outlets in my kitchen before our house is inspected in a day or two. Seems pretty straight forward, I've done plenty of simple electrical stuff (switches, outlets, lights, even re-wired my shop), but I can't figure this out. Here are the details:
There are two cables (4 wires plus ground) feeding this outlet. I know which cable is lead and which is load. I have tested this by hooking up the lead only and the outlet tests fine. When I install the load, it trips.
I know I could just the blacks together and whites together and pig tail it to the outlet, but there are several others down the line I'm hoping to avoid replacing, and, GODDAMMIT, this should work!!
Anybody have any thoughts?
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Are there any other GFCI's anywhere in the house, and, if so, can you be confident they are not on the same circuit? Some times if you get two on the same circuit they can keep tripping one another.
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07-02-2008, 12:34 PM
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#13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane Izzo
So, given that the GFI tests fine with just the lead cable attached, it seems to me that the polarity is fine. Given that installing the load cable didn't cause a big spark, I'm thinking that is fine too.
Is this some issue with a short somewhere down the line? How can I tell?
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Has to be polarity. If there was a short down the line, and you had a normal receptacle installed, it would throw the main breaker.
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07-02-2008, 12:36 PM
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#14 (permalink)
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Mark Dantonio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vator88
Are there any other GFCI's anywhere in the house, and, if so, can you be confident they are not on the same circuit? Some times if you get two on the same circuit they can keep tripping one another.
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None on this circuit. The only ones in the house are the ones I've installed over the last day or so.
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07-02-2008, 12:37 PM
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#15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vator88
Are there any other GFCI's anywhere in the house, and, if so, can you be confident they are not on the same circuit? Some times if you get two on the same circuit they can keep tripping one another.
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This is also true.
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07-02-2008, 12:39 PM
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#16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane Izzo
None on this circuit. The only ones in the house are the ones I've installed over the last day or so.
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Are you positive you have identified the line and load wires? Beyond this, I don't what to tell you.
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07-02-2008, 12:40 PM
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#17 (permalink)
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Zeke the Wonderdog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lundssv16
If the outlet is exterior and done correctly, you have a tripped GFCI either in the garage or in the house. I've seen garage outlets back-wired to a GFCI as far back as the kitchen.
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So I need to push reset on all the outlets that have the little button?? (sorry, dumb ass attorney who knows nothing about electricity).
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07-02-2008, 12:42 PM
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#18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanWilder
So I need to push reset on all the outlets that have the little button?? (sorry, dumb ass attorney who knows nothing about electricity).
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Yes.
Edit- If it trips again, you may have a bad extension cord.
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07-02-2008, 12:46 PM
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#19 (permalink)
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Zeke the Wonderdog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lundssv16
Yes.
Edit- If it trips again, you may have a bad extension cord.
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Great, I gave that cord to my wife to bring up north camping. She's been up there for two days already. If they haven't had electricity for two days, guess who's going to hear about that
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07-02-2008, 12:46 PM
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#20 (permalink)
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Mark Dantonio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lundssv16
Are you positive you have identified the line and load wires? Beyond this, I don't what to tell you.
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Well, I assume so.
I hooked each set, by itself, to the lead terminals on the outlet. Only one set tests OK. This is the lead, correct?
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07-02-2008, 12:51 PM
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#21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane Izzo
Well, I assume so.
I hooked each set, by itself, to the lead terminals on the outlet. Only one set tests OK. This is the lead, correct?
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There is no "lead" The incoming (energized) wire is called the "line" The wire that feeds downstream devices is called the "load"
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07-02-2008, 12:52 PM
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#22 (permalink)
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Mark Dantonio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lundssv16
There is no "lead" The incoming (energized) wire is called the "line" The wire that feeds downstream devices is called the "load"
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OK, sorry, not familiar with the terminology.
I hooked up one pair of wires by itself, removed them and hooked the other. Only one pair tests OK. I assume this is the line?
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