Red Wings sign Marian Hossa - Page 4 - SpartanTailgate.com

Sparty316 · 07-02-2008, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSpringer

If every team spent to the cap I would agree but the sport is extremely unhealthy right now.

You really don't have any support other than a few teams let a player leave via free agency and haven't signed anyone else yet in the whopping 26 hours free agency has been open?

Last I heard, overall league revenue was higher than its ever been in league history last year. The salary cap, which is driven off of revenue, has gone up every year they've had one. Simply because one team doesn't spend money the way you think they should doesn't have any reflection on the "health" of the league.

Owners are in the business of making money, not in the business of spending to the cap for no reason. If every team spent to the cap, and every team still made money, the union would argue the cap wasn't high enough. And they'd be right.

Many holes in your logic.

wingfanjim · 07-02-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoop

Yeah, I would imagine Lidstrom retires at the end of this contract. Of course, that would free up 7.45M to sign another stud defenseman and Holmstrom.

The other beauty of it is that they have a stable of solid young blueliners to bring up within the system.

All that said, there is no replacing Lidstrom ... but they are well suited to lessen the blow a bit.

There is no replacing Lidstrom. However, he is approaching 40 years old, and even though he's probably the smartest player to ever play the game, eventually his brains won't be able to compensate for declining physical ability any more. The only hope if he does decide to stay is that he starts signing contracts for less and less money ala Chelios. Even if he does start declining in the next few seasons, as long as he is injury free, he will still be one of the top 20 defensemen in the league for another 5 years.

Also, I don't know if the Wings will want to resign Holmstrom after the 09-10 season. He will be 36 years old and he has a LOT of miles on his body due to his style of play. If he wins another cup or two he might be ready to hang it up as well. Actually, it is possibly that after the 09-10 season we could be saying goodbye to Lidstrom, Holmstrom, and Maltby. The only 2 players left on the team from the 90s cups would be Osgood and Draper...and their contracts expire in 10-11 and they will be right around retirement age as well.

Snoop · 07-02-2008, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSpringer

Then why haven't they spent it on other players? They had to spend it on Vanek or would have lost him but they haven't been going after anybody.

2 things for you to consider:

1. Buffalo was OVER the cap in 2007 by more than $700K ... while the Wings were $1.39M under the cap.

2. Tampa Bay had the highest payroll this past year.

JohnSpringer · 07-02-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoop

2 things for you to consider:

1. Buffalo was OVER the cap in 2007 by more than $700K ... while the Wings were $1.39M under the cap.

2. Tampa Bay had the highest payroll this past year.

Nobody was over the cap if they were they would be giving up draft picks. Where are you getting your numbers from?

Packer487 · 07-02-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpartanInNH

True, and true; he was ineffective (for him) in the Finals, no doubt in part due to the influence of the Red Wings. He certainly didn't pick the Pens up and put them on his back, in any game or (IMHO) any period. I also don't think he will play defense as well as any of our current forwards, but I could be wrong (hope I'm wrong) on that. I'm praying he isn't a new and slightly improved Robert Lang, which is who he reminds me of.

I dunno, I thought he was Pittsburgh's best player for good portions of that series (obviously not the first two games). He had a huge playoff for them, and even if the Wings DID shut him down, I don't think that's a huge knock against him, since he won't be playing the Red Wings anymore. But he still managed 3 goals and 4 assists in 6 games. And he put in almost 2 points per game over the last four games in the series. It's not like that's bad by any stretch of the imagination.

It's an amazing signing. I don't think Lang is a good comparison for Hossa, but even Lang deserves more credit than he got from Wings fans. He was our best player for two playoff "runs" and scored a couple of HUGE goals in a third trip to the postseason.

Also, I haven't watched him enough to know for sure about his defensive ability, but the AP article I just read cited his backchecking ability as a reason he'll fit in with the Wings. So take that for what you will....

JohnSpringer · 07-02-2008, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparty316

You really don't have any support other than a few teams let a player leave via free agency and haven't signed anyone else yet in the whopping 26 hours free agency has been open?

Last I heard, overall league revenue was higher than its ever been in league history last year. The salary cap, which is driven off of revenue, has gone up every year they've had one. Simply because one team doesn't spend money the way you think they should doesn't have any reflection on the "health" of the league.

Owners are in the business of making money, not in the business of spending to the cap for no reason. If every team spent to the cap, and every team still made money, the union would argue the cap wasn't high enough. And they'd be right.

Many holes in your logic.

There aren't any holes, players desperately wanted linkage, owners wanted a hard cap. I already showed you 12 teams that never even came close to spending to the cap, the system is working for a third of the teams and awful for the rest of the league.

SpartanInNH · 07-02-2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Packer487

I dunno, I thought he was Pittsburgh's best player for good portions of that series (obviously not the first two games). He had a huge playoff for them, and even if the Wings DID shut him down, I don't think that's a huge knock against him, since he won't be playing the Red Wings anymore. But he still managed 3 goals and 4 assists in 6 games. And he put in almost 2 points per game over the last four games in the series. It's not like that's bad by any stretch of the imagination.

It's an amazing signing. I don't think Lang is a good comparison for Hossa, but even Lang deserves more credit than he got from Wings fans. He was our best player for two playoff "runs" and scored a couple of HUGE goals in a third trip to the postseason.

Also, I haven't watched him enough to know for sure about his defensive ability, but the AP article I just read cited his backchecking ability as a reason he'll fit in with the Wings. So take that for what you will....

I want this to be true so badly I can taste it.

...Mmmmmm......Tastes like Stanley Cup........mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

Snoop · 07-02-2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSpringer

Nobody was over the cap if they were they would be giving up draft picks. Where are you getting your numbers from?

Not all NHL teams ready to max out in payroll - USATODAY.com

SALARY CAP NUMBERS

Teams' approximate cap numbers and how much they can spend if pursuing a player before Tuesday's trade deadline. The cap number for the season is $44million.

Team Cap Left

New Jersey $50.1M $1.5M over

Boston $48.1M $670,000 over

Philadelphia $46.5M $237,000 over

Buffalo $45.2M $777,000 over

San Jose $44.4M $674,000 left

Toronto $44.3M $3,500

Colorado $43.8M $398,000

Chicago $43.8M $2.15M

Montreal $43.7M $274,000

Detroit $43.6M $1.39M

Dallas $43.5M $1.51M

Tampa Bay $43.4M $558,000

Vancouver $43.4M $800,000

Ottawa $43.2M $750,000

Calgary $43.1M $878,000

Minnesota $42.8M $12.6M

Anaheim $42.4M $3.82M

N.Y. Rangers $42M $3.1M

Phoenix $42M $3.57M

Atlanta $41.7M $2.44M

Los Angeles $41.6M $2.53M

Florida $41.5M $3.99M

Edmonton $41.2M $3.03M

Columbus $40.4M $4.09M

Carolina $40.3M $4.58M

Nashville $39.8M $4.2M

N.Y. Islanders $39.4M $4.6M

St. Louis $38.6M $5.85M

Pittsburgh $35.8M $11.5M

Washington $31.1M $15.7M

SpartanInNH · 07-02-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoop

Not all NHL teams ready to max out in payroll - USATODAY.com

SALARY CAP NUMBERS

Teams' approximate cap numbers and how much they can spend if pursuing a player before Tuesday's trade deadline. The cap number for the season is $44million.

Didn't the cap just go up to close to $50 million?

PRStoetzer · 07-02-2008, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpartanInNH

Didn't the cap just go up to close to $50 million?

$56.7 million.

wingfanjim · 07-02-2008, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpartanInNH

Didn't the cap just go up to close to $50 million?

It was at $50 million last year. It was at $44 million the year before that.

PRStoetzer · 07-02-2008, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSpringer

Nobody was over the cap if they were they would be giving up draft picks. Where are you getting your numbers from?

Buffalo definitely did finish over the cap due to bonuses and LTI. Detroit was over the cap in 2005-06 due to bonuses and LTI.

Teams can go over the cap due to LTI. Starting this season, they cannot go over the cap for bonuses (since there is no guarantee that the following season will be played under the same CBA and thus no consequence for going over the cap since bonus money that exceeds the cap is charged against the next season's cap, up to a max of 7.5%)

JohnSpringer · 07-02-2008, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoop

Not all NHL teams ready to max out in payroll - USATODAY.com

SALARY CAP NUMBERS

Teams' approximate cap numbers and how much they can spend if pursuing a player before Tuesday's trade deadline. The cap number for the season is $44million.

Team Cap Left

New Jersey $50.1M $1.5M over

Boston $48.1M $670,000 over

Philadelphia $46.5M $237,000 over

Buffalo $45.2M $777,000 over

San Jose $44.4M $674,000 left

Toronto $44.3M $3,500

Colorado $43.8M $398,000

Chicago $43.8M $2.15M

Montreal $43.7M $274,000

Detroit $43.6M $1.39M

Dallas $43.5M $1.51M

Tampa Bay $43.4M $558,000

Vancouver $43.4M $800,000

Ottawa $43.2M $750,000

Calgary $43.1M $878,000

Minnesota $42.8M $12.6M

Anaheim $42.4M $3.82M

N.Y. Rangers $42M $3.1M

Phoenix $42M $3.57M

Atlanta $41.7M $2.44M

Los Angeles $41.6M $2.53M

Florida $41.5M $3.99M

Edmonton $41.2M $3.03M

Columbus $40.4M $4.09M

Carolina $40.3M $4.58M

Nashville $39.8M $4.2M

N.Y. Islanders $39.4M $4.6M

St. Louis $38.6M $5.85M

Pittsburgh $35.8M $11.5M

Washington $31.1M $15.7M

You're living in the past, cap is at 56.7 mil.

JohnSpringer · 07-02-2008, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRStoetzer

Buffalo definitely did finish over the cap due to bonuses and LTI. Detroit was over the cap in 2005-06 due to bonuses and LTI.

Teams can go over the cap due to LTI. Starting this season, they cannot go over the cap for bonuses (since there is no guarantee that the following season will be played under the same CBA and thus no consequence for going over the cap since bonus money that exceeds the cap is charged against the next season's cap, up to a max of 7.5%)

Yes I know that but saying a team is over the cap is a bit deceiving because like you said teams are allowed to do that.

wingfanjim · 07-02-2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSpringer

You're living in the past, cap is at 56.7 mil.

Yeah, but that article was written in february of 2007...That was the cap that year. What good would it do to compare salaries from the 2006-2007 season to the cap for the 2008-2009 season?

wingfanjim · 07-02-2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSpringer

Yes I know that but saying a team is over the cap is a bit deceiving because like you said teams are allowed to do that.

and your point is?

JohnSpringer · 07-02-2008, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingfanjim

and your point is?

Teams aren't allowed to have their roster being over the cap or there are penalties. No team has been penalized which means no team has been over the cap.

misterorange · 07-02-2008, 02:46 PM

you guys are great. In the playoffs you were bashing Hossa for being a choker in the playoffs. It will be great to watch you guys fail this upcoming year. Oh yea as for Hossa leaving the Pens...well rumor says Jagr may go back to the Pens.

JohnSpringer · 07-02-2008, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingfanjim

Yeah, but that article was written in february of 2007...That was the cap that year. What good would it do to compare salaries from the 2006-2007 season to the cap for the 2008-2009 season?

Once the site is in working order I will show you how no team has been over the cap.

PRStoetzer · 07-02-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSpringer

Teams aren't allowed to have their roster being over the cap or there are penalties. No team has been penalized which means no team has been over the cap.

Other than with the authorized exceptions, no team is authorized to be over the cap except during the offseason (and by 10%). No contract or other transaction that results in a team being over the cap would be approved by the league office and if for some reason a team ends up being over the cap, they would not be allowed to take the ice until they made a transaction to get under the cap.

Snoop · 07-02-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSpringer

You're living in the past, cap is at 56.7 mil.

John, my original comment was that Buffalo was over the cap in 2007 and you asked for proof. I gave it to you.