Red Wings sign Marian Hossa - Page 5 - SpartanTailgate.com

Snoop · 07-02-2008, 02:54 PM

John, if you put all of the pieces together you will see that at the trade deadline in 2007, it was certainly possible for a team to be over the cap due to injury acceptions. Buffalo was ... and had a higher payroll than most teams (including the Red Wings). Since then, they have become stubborn.

I think you are confusing 2007 for 2008. I should have said 2006/2007 season.

StorkMSU · 07-02-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSpringer

Then why haven't they spent it on other players? They had to spend it on Vanek or would have lost him but they haven't been going after anybody.

I live in Buffalo (and listen to sports radio every morning...god am I sick of the Bills and the Sabres), so I have some insight into this argument...

1.) Though the Sabres sell-out most games, their ticket prices are lower than most in the NHL. In 06-07, Sabres tickets (at an average of $30.07) were third cheapest in the NHL (St. Louis - $28.23 and Phoenix - $25.41 were the only teams lower) and they were the President's Trophy winner that season. For reference, Wings tickets were $43.13 (which was also the league-wide average...surprisingly) and the most expensive tickets were in Vancouver at $58.96 (nearly double those in Buffalo).

2.) The corporate support for the Sabres is not what it is for other teams (suites are a large portion of arena revenue). Remember, the Sabres were near bankrupt in 2002 after the Adelphia fiasco (essentially the same year Hasek essentially forced the trade out of Buffalo). Corporate box sales are up again with the Sabres' recent sucess, but fan trust in owner Tom Golisano and GM Darcy Rieger is quickly waning.

3.) Buffalo has the 2nd lowest metro-area population (1.25M) of any U.S. based NHL team (Raleigh, NC is the lowest at 0.99M) and is thus a true "small market team."

4.) Not only is Buffalo a relatively small city, it is also a "rust-belt" city that did not have the same revival that other rust-belt cities saw in the 90's. The Sabres actually rely on a lot of support from southern Ontario to fill arena seats.

That being said, the Sabres can probably afford to spend more than they are right now. I assume they are holding some money for next season so they can push to re-sign Ryan Miller(

) and Jason Pominville (similar to the Wings holding money to re-sign Z and Mule).

JohnSpringer · 07-02-2008, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoop

John, if you put all of the pieces together you will see that at the trade deadline in 2007, it was certainly possible for a team to be over the cap due to injury acceptions. Buffalo was ... and had a higher payroll than most teams (including the Red Wings). Since then, they have become stubborn.

I think you are confusing 2007 for 2008. I should have said 2006/2007 season.

Ok that makes sense but injury acceptions mean they aren't paying anything out. You can send guys down like NJ did with Mogilny, they dealt Malakhov to SJ and then they put him on the injured list therefore not costing anybody a dime. Look at the numbers with the amount of money teams have to spend and be honest how many are going to spend a lot.

HockeyBuzz.com

PRStoetzer · 07-02-2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSpringer

Ok that makes sense but injury acceptions mean they aren't paying anything out. You can send guys down like NJ did with Mogilny, they dealt Malakhov to SJ and then they put him on the injured list therefore not costing anybody a dime. Look at the numbers with the amount of money teams have to spend and be honest how many are going to spend a lot.

HockeyBuzz.com

Player contracts are guaranteed. When a player is on LTI, his salary is still paid, but the team is allowed to replace that player's salary even if it results in going over the cap.

Also, when a player on a one-way contract is sent to the minors, that player is still paid his salary by the team.

Heat Miser · 07-02-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRStoetzer

Player contracts are guaranteed. When a player is on LTI, his salary is still paid, but the team is allowed to replace that player's salary even if it results in going over the cap.

Also, when a player on a one-way contract is sent to the minors, that player is still paid his salary by the team.

QFT. Witness Jiri Fischer.

JohnSpringer · 07-02-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRStoetzer

Player contracts are guaranteed. When a player is on LTI, his salary is still paid, but the team is allowed to replace that player's salary even if it results in going over the cap.

Also, when a player on a one-way contract is sent to the minors, that player is still paid his salary by the team.

If I understand correctly though there are other ways around it such as if a player misses more than 10 games you do get cap savings and that isn't really a long term injury. I mean wouldn't Pittsburgh have gotten cap savings from Crosby being out so long last year?

TripleGreen · 07-02-2008, 03:07 PM

I just hope no one offers a sheet to Filppula for an amount that Detroit can't fit under their cap structure (ie. around $3.5 million or more). If Val is back with the team next year to center the line of him, Mule and Marian...just wow! Detroit's top two lines on both offense and defense will be borderline All Star caliber.

And just imagine if Ville Leino turns out to be what some have been suggesting which is a bigger and stronger version of Jiri Hudler. Next year is going to be amazing for Wings fans and it has the potential to be EPIC.

PRStoetzer · 07-02-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSpringer

If I understand correctly though there are other ways around it such as if a player misses more than 10 games you do get cap savings and that isn't really a long term injury. I mean wouldn't Pittsburgh have gotten cap savings from Crosby being out so long last year?

Cap savings, but not real monetary savings. They still have to pay the player (although insurance may come into play, especially if the player's career is ended).

The system is convoluted, bottom line is that teams get cap relief for players who miss either 10 games or 24 days.

Here is a great FAQ:

NHLSCAP.com - Salary Cap FAQ (page 2)

Delta Grove · 07-02-2008, 03:10 PM

Just got the news. Holy crap. The rich get richer.

PRStoetzer · 07-02-2008, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TripleGreen

I just hope no one offers a sheet to Filppula for an amount that Detroit can't fit under their cap structure (ie. around $3.5 million or more). If Val is back with the team next year to center the line of him, Mule and Marian...just wow! Detroit's top two lines on both offense and defense will be borderline All Star caliber.

And just imagine if Ville Leino turns out to be what some have been suggesting which is a bigger and stronger version of Jiri Hudler. Next year is going to be amazing for Wings fans and it has the potential to be EPIC.

If a team gives him that kind of offer (and he signs it, remember an offer sheet is a Standard Player Contract between a team and a player), than the Wings get a 1st and a 3rd round pick if they decide not to match.

They could decide to match, go over the cap, and make trades to get under the cap (Hudler, Samuelsson, Lilja).

JohnSpringer · 07-02-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRStoetzer

Cap savings, but not real monetary savings. They still have to pay the player (although insurance may come into play, especially if the player's career is ended).

The system is convoluted, bottom line is that teams get cap relief for players who miss either 10 games or 24 days.

Here is a great FAQ:

NHLSCAP.com - Salary Cap FAQ (page 2)

Right, and I was referring to cap savings. I know they still have to pay out the money.

wingfanjim · 07-02-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRStoetzer

If a team gives him that kind of offer (and he signs it, remember an offer sheet is a Standard Player Contract between a team and a player), than the Wings get a 1st and a 3rd round pick if they decide not to match.

They could decide to match, go over the cap, and make trades to get under the cap (Hudler, Samuelsson, Lilja).

Personally, I'd get rid of Samuelsson. He's a solid player, but of the players on the list to resign for next year, he's the least priority one to me.

wingfanjim · 07-02-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSpringer

Right, and I was referring to cap savings. I know they still have to pay out the money.

So what does this have to do with your argument that there are all these poor teams and that the current cap system is flawed?

JohnSpringer · 07-02-2008, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRStoetzer

If a team gives him that kind of offer (and he signs it, remember an offer sheet is a Standard Player Contract between a team and a player), than the Wings get a 1st and a 3rd round pick if they decide not to match.

They could decide to match, go over the cap, and make trades to get under the cap (Hudler, Samuelsson, Lilja).

Or a team can offer $2,343,765 and just give up a 2nd rounder as compensation and leave the Wings with $233,458 in cap space.

Smashmouth FB · 07-02-2008, 03:14 PM

Hossa will score his 300th goal with the Wings! He's at 299 now.

JohnSpringer · 07-02-2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingfanjim

So what does this have to do with your argument that there are all these poor teams and that the current cap system is flawed?

Did you see the amount of money these teams have to spend and won't even come close to spending? The cap system is flawed now that teams have to raise their salaries over the floor.

PRStoetzer · 07-02-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSpringer

Or a team can offer $2,343,765 and just give up a 2nd rounder as compensation and leave the Wings with $233,458 in cap space.

Those numbers depend on who's in the minors and who's on the team.

The money is tight, but the Wings have a bit of wiggle room depending on how many players they carry on their roster (you don't have to carry 23) and who the players are (some make $500,000 and some make $800,000).

PRStoetzer · 07-02-2008, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSpringer

Did you see the amount of money these teams have to spend and won't even come close to spending? The cap system is flawed now that teams have to raise their salaries over the floor.

Tears.

They should have agreed to the $45 million or $52 million hard cap with no linkage that the NHLPA offered. The NHLPA was dead set against linkage, but the owners insisted on it.

newlander · 07-02-2008, 03:18 PM

I can't believe this........I was hoping for Sundin...........I thought that Hossa was Pitt's best player against us in the Finals............we get the best forward in free agency and screw them to boot.....priceless............can't wait to call my penguin lovin' relatives

wingfanjim · 07-02-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRStoetzer

Tears.

They should have agreed to the $45 million or $52 million hard cap with no linkage that the NHLPA offered. The NHLPA was dead set against linkage, but the owners insisted on it.

Exactly. Boo friggin hoo. If you can't afford to compete even with a salary cap than maybe you should fold your team.

JohnSpringer · 07-02-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRStoetzer

Tears.

They should have agreed to the $45 million or $52 million hard cap with no linkage that the NHLPA offered. The NHLPA was dead set against linkage, but the owners insisted on it.

Yes and I thought a hard cap was necessary as well. The system is flawed when Huet gets paid more than Brodeur.