Notre Dame loses starting tight end for the season

[NMUCats]

Originally Posted by mentalstate

that's your best answer, nmucat?

and btw, I doubt last year's team would have done too well at the lower levels, either...

I just can't wait until next year when you're praising how good Maurice Crum, David Grimes, and David Bruton were, and how ND will be horrible without them .


By the way, Bruton was definitely a better player than Zib was last year. He was #2 behind Laws. Zib got too much media attention for his off-field activities, and as a result, was a bit overrated. Still a tough loss, but not the All-American he was billed to be. Bruton will be on awards lists at the end of the year, however. He's the real deal.

[mentalstate]

thanks for reminding me who was left in your great wr core.

who knows, maybe an nd recruit from weiss actually lives to to the bs hype... with tenuta as coach. because up to now no one jabba's recruited has come close. but of course, I'm sure that is still Ty's fault.

[Jesus Moonwalking Christ]

Originally Posted by Nick Papageorgio

Jesus Christ did.

I'm asking a simple question to gain a little perspective here. No need for the misguided anger you're displaying.

Not so fast my friend. I died for a lot of things, but not to make you the "now" police. What exacty is now anyways? Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care?

But Seriously, keep talking like that and you will get my ol' man ticked off. talk about misguided anger.

[Dr. X]

[Hans Klopek]

I want one, just one person to rationally explain to me why ND is going to be better this year. As has been mentioned, they lost their top players from a team that went 3-9 and looked even worse doing it. Despite all this, there seems to be a universal consensus that they're a lock to be much improved.

[wingfanjim]

Originally Posted by Nick Papageorgio

Dolt? Being a jerk? That's a mature approach. It's that in retaliation for me attacking you? Oh that's right, I didn't.

Yes, he said that his wife started watching MSU in the late 90's. Then he said the MSU beats ND regularly "now". The 90's are almost 10 years ago. 10 years ago isn't now. I simply pointed out that in the time frame that most would consider "now", the series has been win one, loss win. Am I wrong?

When you look at rivalries that are as long as the MSU-ND rivalry, one has to look at the current trend and however long the current trend runs determines what you define as "now". From 1967 to 1994, MSU only beat Notre Dame 4 times in 28 games. Starting when the rivalry renewed after 2 year break in 1997, MSU has won 8 out of the past 11 meetings against ND. This marked a CLEARLY defined change in the trend of the rivalry. Last year's team and the current team (hopefully) are a part of that trend. By using this analysis, (which is not something "convenient" but actually rather logical) what started in 1997 is VERY relevant to today because the events of those games are defining the rivalry as it currently stands.

Until ND can put together a few consecutive wins in this series, 1997 and onward is still a part of "now" in terms of the rivalry.

[Vince of 231]

Originally Posted by wingfanjim

When you look at rivalries that are as long as the MSU-ND rivalry, one has to look at the current trend and however long the current trend runs determines what you define as "now". From 1967 to 1994, MSU only beat Notre Dame 4 times in 28 games. Starting when the rivalry renewed after 2 year break in 1997, MSU has won 8 out of the past 11 meetings against ND. This marked a CLEARLY defined change in the trend of the rivalry. Last year's team and the current team (hopefully) are a part of that trend. By using this analysis, (which is not something "convenient" but actually rather logical) what started in 1997 is VERY relevant to today because the events of those games are defining the rivalry as it currently stands.

Until ND can put together a few consecutive wins in this series, 1997 and onward is still a part of "now" in terms of the rivalry.

Davie was 0-5.

Willingham was 2-1 when they ran him off.

Weis is 1-2. Their coach "now" can't possibly have a winning record in the series until 2009.

Oh, and before one of the nd slappies starts checking MSU coaching records, our coach right "now" is 1-0.

[NMUCats]

Originally Posted by Hans Klopek

I want one, just one person to rationally explain to me why ND is going to be better this year. As has been mentioned, they lost their top players from a team that went 3-9 and looked even worse doing it. Despite all this, there seems to be a universal consensus that they're a lock to be much improved.

I'll give it a shot. Some of ND's best players from last year were freshman, and it is generally accepted that the greatest improvement in players occurs between their freshman and sophomore years. Included in this group are:

Starting QB - Clausen
Top 2 of 3 RBs - Allen & Hughes
#2 WR - Kamara
Starting OLB - Neal
Starting MLB - B. Smith
Starting DT - I. Williams

It's also a given that ND's o-line will be improved this year, the question is how much. Throw in the addition of Tenuta, who has a great track record with defenses, and a much softer schedule than last year, and you have most people predicting a better year record-wise.

[mentalstate]

You mean like your left tackle, who went from Frosh AA to soph sieve? Honestly, while what you say is generally true, the record of that happening under Jabba with his recruits has yet to be established, so that is why people are skeptical about that...

[Vince of 231]

Originally Posted by NMUCats

I'll give it a shot. Some of ND's best players from last year were freshman, and it is generally accepted that the greatest improvement in players occurs between their freshman and sophomore years. Included in this group are:

Starting QB - Clausen
Top 2 of 3 RBs - Allen & Hughes
#2 WR - Kamara
Starting OLB - Neal
Starting MLB - B. Smith
Starting DT - I. Williams

It's also a given that ND's o-line will be improved this year, the question is how much. Throw in the addition of Tenuta, who has a great track record with defenses, and a much softer schedule than last year, and you have most people predicting a better year record-wise.

Originally Posted by mentalstate

You mean like your left tackle, who went from Frosh AA to soph sieve? Honestly, while what you say is generally true, the record of that happening under Jabba with his recruits has yet to be established, so that is why people are skeptical about that...

Good point. Can anyone please point out one of Weis's players who got BETTER in his 2nd and/or 3rd year of play for him?

[AASpartan]

Originally Posted by Vince of 231

Good point. Can anyone please point out one of Weis's players who got BETTER in his 2nd and/or 3rd year of play for him?

A lot of Weis' first class are seniors now. I don't think that anyone can say that they've improved.

[Hans Klopek]

Originally Posted by NMUCats

I'll give it a shot. Some of ND's best players from last year were freshman, and it is generally accepted that the greatest improvement in players occurs between their freshman and sophomore years. Included in this group are:

Starting QB - Clausen
Top 2 of 3 RBs - Allen & Hughes
#2 WR - Kamara
Starting OLB - Neal
Starting MLB - B. Smith
Starting DT - I. Williams

It's also a given that ND's o-line will be improved this year, the question is how much. Throw in the addition of Tenuta, who has a great track record with defenses, and a much softer schedule than last year, and you have most people predicting a better year record-wise.

See, that's just what I'm talking about. Who says its a given? Notre Dame's OL coach is clearly incompetent, and he was working with a talented core of players. These are Charlie's kids, and they haven't been taught proper technique from the moment they set foot on campus.

I'll give you Tenuta, that was a solid pickup. As for the schedule, it may be softer on paper, but some of those teams should be significantly improved from last year (Pitt, UNC), you have two teams with coaches on a sizzling hot seat (Washington, Syracuse) and several other teams coming off much more successful seasons than ND with the majority of their core intact.

There is certainly the potential for ND to take a step forward, but I haven't seen a single thing that's told me it's a "given". In fact, seeing a repeat of 3-9 wouldn't surprise me in the least.

[HUT1HUT2]

Originally Posted by Hans Klopek

I want one, just one person to rationally explain to me why ND is going to be better this year. As has been mentioned, they lost their top players from a team that went 3-9 and looked even worse doing it. Despite all this, there seems to be a universal consensus that they're a lock to be much improved.

Easy, Fat Charlie is no longer coaching. His top hires are making the calls and doing the ground work. JoePa does more coaching than this cheating fake.

[maxemus]

God I feel sick.....





NOT

[GoBlueFromOhio]

Originally Posted by HUT1HUT2

Easy, Fat Charlie is no longer coaching. His top hires are making the calls and doing the ground work. JoePa does more coaching than this cheating fake.

I missed something. Weiss cheats now too?

[Showtime Hightower]

Originally Posted by Hans Klopek

I want one, just one person to rationally explain to me why ND is going to be better this year. As has been mentioned, they lost their top players from a team that went 3-9 and looked even worse doing it. Despite all this, there seems to be a universal consensus that they're a lock to be much improved.

Could they really be any worse?

Plus, Charlie the great is coaching them.

[HUT1HUT2]

Originally Posted by GoBlueFromOhio

I missed something. Weiss cheats now too?

He was a part of the New England Staff that did cheat.

As the Irish coach I an unaware of any cheating.

My insults are the sum result of his career.

[wingfanjim]

Originally Posted by GoBlueFromOhio

I missed something. Weiss cheats now too?

Spygate.

[NMUCats]

Originally Posted by Hans Klopek

See, that's just what I'm talking about. Who says its a given? Notre Dame's OL coach is clearly incompetent, and he was working with a talented core of players. These are Charlie's kids, and they haven't been taught proper technique from the moment they set foot on campus.

I'll give you Tenuta, that was a solid pickup. As for the schedule, it may be softer on paper, but some of those teams should be significantly improved from last year (Pitt, UNC), you have two teams with coaches on a sizzling hot seat (Washington, Syracuse) and several other teams coming off much more successful seasons than ND with the majority of their core intact.

There is certainly the potential for ND to take a step forward, but I haven't seen a single thing that's told me it's a "given". In fact, seeing a repeat of 3-9 wouldn't surprise me in the least.

ND's o-line has been bad all 3 years of Weis's helm, and there has certainly been questions raised about Latina, the oline coach. The puzzling thing is, he had a terrific pedigree with his o-line at Mississippi before he came to ND, so I haven't a clue what's been going on there. I do think Weis improved his practice strategy this fall by moving to full pads and hitting all summer, as opposed to the team playing patty cake last summer and then getting blown up physically the first few games. Anyways, with everyone on the line returning, spending another year in the weight room, and playing together another year, they have to get better even a tiny bit, don't they?

Anyways, I still think the biggest reason for improved predictions for the Irish is the schedule. Check out this comparison of last year's schedule with this year's:

2007: 2008:

USC = USC
Michigan > Michigan
Boston College > Boston College
Penn State > or = Pittsburgh
Michigan State = Michigan State
Georgia Tech > or = North Carolina
Purdue = Purdue
UCLA > or = Washington
Navy > Navy
Air Force > Syracuse
Duke = San Diego St
Stanford < Stanford

- Stanford, SDSU, Syracuse, Navy will all be extremely winnable games.
- Washington, Purdue, and North Carolina will be at least toss up games
- Pitt, MSU, BC, and Michigan will all be tough games but not insurmountable games by any means. BC loses a ton from last year, they probably belong in the toss up games, but they have owned ND recently.
- USC is the only game I see that ND is guaranteed a beatdown.

Hence, I'm predicting 5 wins as worst case scenario, 9 as best case, and 7 as most likely.

[wingfanjim]

Originally Posted by NMUCats

ND's o-line has been bad all 3 years of Weis's helm, and there has certainly been questions raised about Latina, the oline coach. The puzzling thing is, he had a terrific pedigree with his o-line at Mississippi before he came to ND, so I haven't a clue what's been going on there. I do think Weis improved his practice strategy this fall by moving to full pads and hitting all summer, as opposed to the team playing patty cake last summer and then getting blown up physically the first few games. Anyways, with everyone on the line returning, spending another year in the weight room, and playing together another year, they have to get better even a tiny bit, don't they?

Anyways, I still think the biggest reason for improved predictions for the Irish is the schedule. Check out this comparison of last year's schedule with this year's:

2007: 2008:

USC = USC
Michigan > Michigan
Boston College > Boston College
Penn State > or = Pittsburgh
Michigan State = Michigan State
Georgia Tech > or = North Carolina
Purdue = Purdue
UCLA > or = Washington
Navy > Navy
Air Force > Syracuse
Duke = San Diego St
Stanford < Stanford

- Stanford, SDSU, Syracuse, Navy will all be extremely winnable games.
- Washington, Purdue, and North Carolina will be at least toss up games
- Pitt, MSU, BC, and Michigan will all be tough games but not insurmountable games by any means. BC loses a ton from last year, they probably belong in the toss up games, but they have owned ND recently.
- USC is the only game I see that ND is guaranteed a beatdown.

Hence, I'm predicting 5 wins as worst case scenario, 9 as best case, and 7 as most likely.

There is no formal practice beyond conditioning over the summer. That means no pads, helmets or any work on running plays. As far as fall camp is concerned, EVERY team is required to follow the rule that the first two practices are in helmets and shorts, the next two are in shells (helmets and shoulder pads) and starting with the 5th practice can teams put on all the equipment and go live with contact.

[NMUCats]

Originally Posted by wingfanjim

There is no formal practice beyond conditioning over the summer. That means no pads, helmets or any work on running plays. As far as fall camp is concerned, EVERY team is required to follow the rule that the first two practices are in helmets and shorts, the next two are in shells (helmets and shoulder pads) and starting with the 5th practice can teams put on all the equipment and go live with contact.

Sorry, I consider fall camp as part of the summer since it takes place in August. Obviously the first few practices are not full pads, but last year, Weis only had full pads going for the last week of camp, as opposed to starting the 5th practice and keeping it through camp, like this year.

[chitownsparty86]

Originally Posted by NMUCats

ND's o-line has been bad all 3 years of Weis's helm, and there has certainly been questions raised about Latina, the oline coach. The puzzling thing is, he had a terrific pedigree with his o-line at Mississippi before he came to ND, so I haven't a clue what's been going on there. I do think Weis improved his practice strategy this fall by moving to full pads and hitting all summer, as opposed to the team playing patty cake last summer and then getting blown up physically the first few games. Anyways, with everyone on the line returning, spending another year in the weight room, and playing together another year, they have to get better even a tiny bit, don't they?

Anyways, I still think the biggest reason for improved predictions for the Irish is the schedule. Check out this comparison of last year's schedule with this year's:

2007: 2008:

USC = USC
Michigan > Michigan
Boston College > Boston College
Penn State > or = Pittsburgh
Michigan State = Michigan State
Georgia Tech > or = North Carolina
Purdue = Purdue
UCLA > or = Washington
Navy > Navy
Air Force > Syracuse
Duke = San Diego St
Stanford < Stanford

- Stanford, SDSU, Syracuse, Navy will all be extremely winnable games.
- Washington, Purdue, and North Carolina will be at least toss up games
- Pitt, MSU, BC, and Michigan will all be tough games but not insurmountable games by any means. BC loses a ton from last year, they probably belong in the toss up games, but they have owned ND recently.
- USC is the only game I see that ND is guaranteed a beatdown.

Hence, I'm predicting 5 wins as worst case