Notre Dame loses starting tight end for the season

[mentalstate]

also, nd's biggest problem by far was the offense and player development, brown did a respectable job with the defense, it doesn't matter who you bring it on d, it is the o that needs a tenuta-like guy. heck, it was your D that won the ucla game for you. no d will hold up constantly without real support from the o.

which is also what is funny, nd people saying they will be better cause of tenuta, when the d is not the problem...

[NMUCats]

Originally Posted by mentalstate

also, nd's biggest problem by far was the offense and player development, brown did a respectable job with the defense, it doesn't matter who you bring it on d, it is the o that needs a tenuta-like guy. heck, it was your D that won the ucla game for you. no d will hold up constantly without real support from the o.

which is also what is funny, nd people saying they will be better cause of tenuta, when the d is not the problem...

True. The funny part is though, we won't have any idea about the player development of the offensive players until after this year, because the majority of the playmakers last year were true freshman, so this is their first full year of "developing" into the players they can be. Unless you're talking specifically about the offensive line, which I've already professed I haven't a clue what went on there.

[wingfanjim]

Originally Posted by NMUCats

Trust me, you don't have to tell me how bad ND was last year. It's burned into my memory. However, you kind of made my point. That light schedule they had at the end is closer to what this year's schedule is like. It wouldn't take much improvement at all to get to 5-6 wins. Last year's team would have been good enough to beat SDSU, Syracuse, Navy, and Stanford this year, and they were in a close one with Purdue. Minor improvement wins 1-2 more this year.

But who knows. Maybe nobody on the team improves at all, Tenuta has no impact on defense, and Clausen gets moved to linebacker. We'll see.

Notre Dame may have a better record this year than last year, but in all honesty, they won't be a better team. Sure Tenuta may come in and make the defense better. The problem is that the defense wasn't what was wrong with the team. In fact, last year's defense was actually pretty decent. However, since the offense couldn't move the ball or score points, by the 4th quarter, ND's defense had been on the field FOREVER!

Last year, on average, ND's opponent had the ball for 32 minutes during the course of the game. That means that ND's defense was on the field 4 minutes more per game than their offense. That is a LOT of extra time spent defending the ball. The defense was worn down by the 4th quarter in just about every game. If the offense can't move the ball again this year, it doesn't matter how good the defense is, ND will continue to struggle.

[Hans Klopek]

It's also very illustrative of the special treatment ND receives in the media that they would be such a popular pick to turn things around, when such consensus is usually unprecedented. I've never seen a 3-9 dog, coming off a seasons worth of blowout losses, and losing their top players, EVER predicted to go bowling the following year. Not once, ever.

No one predicts Syracuse, UAB, Iowa State or Buffalo to go from 3 to 10 wins. Yet, with ND, it's a fait accompli. You can talk about sure wins against Stanford, San Diego State, ect., but what have they proven to show they even belong on the same field as MSU, Purdue or BC...games the pundits now call "swing games"? Even Michigan, another media darling, is getting very little respect, and they have a proven, loaded defense returning. And people wonder why ND is so despised nationally

[NMUCats]

Originally Posted by Hans Klopek

It's also very illustrative of the special treatment ND receives in the media that they would be such a popular pick to turn things around, when such consensus is usually unprecedented. I've never seen a 3-9 dog, coming off a seasons worth of blowout losses, and losing their top players, EVER predicted to go bowling the following year. Not once, ever.

No one predicts Syracuse, UAB, Iowa State or Buffalo to go from 3 to 10 wins. Yet, with ND, it's a fait accompli. You can talk about sure wins against Stanford, San Diego State, ect., but what have they proven to show they even belong on the same field as MSU, Purdue or BC...games the pundits now call "swing games"? Even Michigan, another media darling, is getting very little respect, and they have a proven, loaded defense returning. And people wonder why ND is so despised nationally

Syracuse, UAB, Iowa State, and Buffalo probably didn't have freshman and sophomores playing all over the field, and if they did, they probably weren't considered great recruits coming out of high school...


...and it makes for good tv .

[MSULordyoda]

For those on the board actually saying ND has to be better than last year because of X, Y, or Z, your theories are continually proven wrong by sports teams all over the country. We'll start with MLB...the Tigers were pretty much a lock before the season began to make the World Series based on last year's stats and what they added. Look where they're at now!

Looking at college football, one only need to look at our own MSU teams to be reminded that another year of experience doesn't necessarily make you better. In 2002 we were a dark-horse BCS contender with Smoker, Rogers, Duckett, most of the defense returning etc. Look what happened there. The offensive line didn't improve and the defense was just as bad (I'm just looking at the beginning of the season when they really did lay an egg.) Our secondary was supposed to better in 2007 because they were all back from 2006 and they really didn't improve that much. There are a bunch of other examples of this.

Of course if you listen to Notre Dame fans now, they all say the fully expected last season to be a really bad one and weren't surprised. Funny because the defense was supposed to carry them last year and I think it was worse in 2007 than 2006.

[Hans Klopek]

Originally Posted by NMUCats

Syracuse, UAB, Iowa State, and Buffalo probably didn't have freshman and sophomores playing all over the field, and if they did, they probably weren't considered great recruits coming out of high school...


...and it makes for good tv .

C'mon NMU, you're reaching now...

It doesn't matter how highly a player is ranked coming out of HS, his value as a collegian is in how he plays on the college level. These "studs" were overmatched, outworked and pushed around. A team full of 4* and 5* freshmen and sophomores from Notre Dame should not have been beaten by juniors and seniors from the Naval Academy. It looks like Ron Zook's highly touted freshmen and sophomores did just fine, what's Charlie's excuse?

[SpartyOnInChitown]

Originally Posted by wingfanjim

Notre Dame may have a better record this year than last year, but in all honesty, they won't be a better team. Sure Tenuta may come in and make the defense better. The problem is that the defense wasn't what was wrong with the team. In fact, last year's defense was actually pretty decent. However, since the offense couldn't move the ball or score points, by the 4th quarter, ND's defense had been on the field FOREVER!
Last year, on average, ND's opponent had the ball for 32 minutes during the course of the game. That means that ND's defense was on the field 4 minutes more per game than their offense. That is a LOT of extra time spent defending the ball. The defense was worn down by the 4th quarter in just about every game. If the offense can't move the ball again this year, it doesn't matter how good the defense is, ND will continue to struggle.

QFT. I don't care if Tenuta or Jesus Christ himself is coaching ND's defense. Unless their offense line can actually protect Clausen and the offense can actually stay on the field, ND's D will get worn down.

[JoeSpartyFan]

Originally Posted by NMUCats

...and it makes for good tv .

This is all that needs to be said about ND's media coverage.

[calvin]

Originally Posted by Hans Klopek

C'mon NMU, you're reaching now...

It doesn't matter how highly a player is ranked coming out of HS, his value as a collegian is in how he plays on the college level. These "studs" were overmatched, outworked and pushed around. A team full of 4* and 5* freshmen and sophomores from Notre Dame should not have been beaten by juniors and seniors from the Naval Academy.

Why not. People act as if Navy and Air Force are horrible teams who would go 0-11 in any conference. Sorry, both have been pretty consistent bowl teams. Navy's Paul Johnson has been regarded as one of the best coaches in the country for several years now. Air Force was beating Cal in their bowl game 36-28 when their starting QB got injured.

Both also play trick offenses which are difficult to prepare for in one week. Air Force went into Tennessee two years ago and lost by a point when UT had a great defense.

Finally people conveniently forget that football is a team game not an individual sport. X number of 4 and 5 star players mean nothing if they lack overall team cohesion. In a game tomorrow I'd much rather have a team of 2 star SR's who know their system, and each other inside and out, against a team of 5 star true freshmen and sophomores who are playing at half speed while often confused as to where they should be what they should be doing on any given play. All it takes for an offense or defense to fall apart is for one or two guys to get out of position or get beaten on a play. Those mistakes are minimized with experienced upperclassmen. They are maximized when you play inexperienced underclassmen.

You can get away with one or two true freshman playing if you have experienced guys around them who won't break down and who can to pick up for their natural (learning curve) mistakes. You start throwing true freshmen and sophomores out there at critical positions (QB, OL) and you're going to get one giant cluster&!^@ because you're going to have the blind leading the blind.

Zook's freshmen and sophomores did just fine, what's Charlie's excuse?

Actually, at the same point in their career (2006) Zook's freshmen went 2-9 and they didn't play a schedule anywhere near as hard as the one ND played last year. Eight straight bowl teams to open the season en route to an NCAA leading 10 overall.

Also one has to consider that ND plays a complex pro style offense which has little margin for error. That offense takes years to learn and master. They're not asking their QB's to take two steps and read the outside shoulder of the DE then decide which way to run. Nor do their QB's get pass plays with a 2 check, then RUN option. They ask their QB's to read the defenses and to throw into them. It's not an easy offense to grasp or execute and development isn't commonly seen until the QB's Jr season.

[mentalstate]

that was awesome to read, Calvin!!! And to think I thought nd sucked last year because they had poor talent and horrible O coaching... thanks for straightening that out good to know that nd runs such an amazing schematic system that it actually takes a QB 3+ years to run, thus the reason they went with the frosh qb rather than either of the two older guys in front of him. and man, imagine if Quinn had had 3 years to pick it up, rather than have to run it right away. This also explains why the o-line and TEs quit blocking, and why the runners decided not to gain any yards- they knew it was futile since Clausen was going to need a few more years...

and that is awesome too becuase it completely covers you for sucking this year. solid work, Calvin, solid work

[Home for the Holidays]

Originally Posted by calvin

Both also play trick offenses which are difficult to prepare for in one week. son.

So difficult that ND had beaten them every year since 1964 until Big Charlie arrived.

[spartan80]

Originally Posted by MSULordyoda

For those on the board actually saying ND has to be better than last year because of X, Y, or Z, your theories are continually proven wrong by sports teams all over the country. We'll start with MLB...the Tigers were pretty much a lock before the season began to make the World Series based on last year's stats and what they added. Look where they're at now!

Looking at college football, one only need to look at our own MSU teams to be reminded that another year of experience doesn't necessarily make you better. In 2002 we were a dark-horse BCS contender with Smoker, Rogers, Duckett, most of the defense returning etc. Look what happened there. The offensive line didn't improve and the defense was just as bad (I'm just looking at the beginning of the season when they really did lay an egg.) Our secondary was supposed to better in 2007 because they were all back from 2006 and they really didn't improve that much. There are a bunch of other examples of this.

Of course if you listen to Notre Dame fans now, they all say the fully expected last season to be a really bad one and weren't surprised. Funny because the defense was supposed to carry them last year and I think it was worse in 2007 than 2006.

Agree, except TJ left a year early and wasn't on the 2002 team. He was a freshman in '99 on the Citrus Bowl team.

[AASpartan]

FOX Sports on MSN - COLLEGE FOOTBALL - We're still waiting for Weis to prove himself

[calvin]

Originally Posted by mentalstate

good to know that nd runs such an amazing schematic system that it actually takes a QB 3+ years to run

I never said that it takes three years to run. I said three years to grasp. There is a difference.

Also implied within that statement is the fact that (freshmen) mistakes decrease as experience increase. Mistakes are often the thing that keeps games close.

and man, imagine if Quinn had had 3 years to pick it up, rather than have to run it right away.

Well since you mentioned it Quinn did have to run the system right away and his numbers were worse than Clausen's.

157/332 (47% comp), 9/15 (TD/INT), 93.52 QB rating.

This also explains why the o-line and TEs quit blocking, and why the runners decided not to gain any yards- they knew it was futile since Clausen was going to need a few more years...

Bizzare, yet interesting since you intended to be sarcastic yet you underscored my point.

ND's OL last year 8/11 were sophomores or true freshmen.

ND's starting QB - True freshman

ND's top two RB's - Both (Hughes/Allen) true freshmen

ND's leading WR - True freshman.

This goes back to my point of the blind leading the blind.

Originally Posted by WBill

So difficult that ND had beaten them every year since 1964 until Big Charlie arrived.

Shocking since:

1997 ND 21 Navy 17
1999 ND 28 Navy 24
2002 ND 30 Navy 23
2003 ND 27 Navy 24

Navy has been close to ND several times recently. Luckily for them they caught ND in a perfect storm last year. I doubt they'll come within 17 of ND for the rest of Weis tenure.

[mentalstate]

give Calvin a minute and he will set every fact mentioned in that article straight. Starting with how Ty is responsible for all of this mess...

[Home for the Holidays]

Originally Posted by calvin

Shocking since:

1997 ND 21 Navy 17
1999 ND 28 Navy 24
2002 ND 30 Navy 23
2003 ND 27 Navy 24

Navy has been close to ND several times recently. Luckily for them they caught ND in a perfect storm last year. I doubt they'll come within 17 of ND for the rest of Weis tenure.

Even Davie and Willingham, coaches ND blames for almost all of their current problems, managed to beat Navy.

[AASpartan]

Originally Posted by mentalstate

give Calvin a minute and he will set every fact mentioned in that article straight. Starting with how Ty is responsible for all of this mess...

ND has everyone right where they want them. They purposely played like garbage and with a complete lack of skill and fundamentals to set up the 2008 season where they finish behind more deserving BCS eligible teams yet wind up in a BCS bowl due to the "Notre Dame rules".

[calvin]

Originally Posted by AASpartan

FOX Sports on MSN - COLLEGE FOOTBALL - We're still waiting for Weis to prove himself

Hilarious article. I love how he blames Weis for ND's fault but St. Ty manages to skip away free from all blame. I guess the fact that ND only had 20 Jr's and Sr's on their roster last year, and no impact players to mention, was somehow Weis' fault since he should have somehow managed to recruit for ND in 2004 and 2005 when he was the OC with the Patriots!

BTW, this bobo really ought to go visit the Washington board and see what they think of the great Lionel Willingham. They HATE him, make that despise him, more than ND fans. TY will be fired from Washington after this season and just at ND Lionel's race will play no part. Ty will be fired because he's an arrogant coach, who's also a bad coach who will be under .500 for his career, and to cap it off he's also a piss poor recruiter.

That might be ok at Stanford which has no illusions of gridiron greatness but it's not going to play at schools with any history or winning tradition.

Ty would have been fired after last year at UW but much to the anger of UW fans the local NAACP chapter, and PAC10, came to Ty's defense and so he was retained but his AD lost his job. Ty also threw his DC overboard when it came to saving his own hide.

[AASpartan]

Originally Posted by mentalstate

give Calvin a minute and he will set every fact mentioned in that article straight. Starting with how Ty is responsible for all of this mess...

Nice call!

[spartan80]

Reading articles like this about the fall of the ever humble Fighting Irish, ...well it brings tears to my eyes!