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Posts: 26,882
Quote:
Originally Posted by haveacigar535
someone ought to go through the thread and count how many times Iggy has made this exact same point. You are getting into Leonidas levels as far as absurd repetition of posts.
Maybe if Dombrowski would quit combing the earth to find every mediocre middle-aged nondescript journeyman semi-replacement-level player on the face of the planet to snap them up for the roster, I would quit hammering the point.
One of the utterly most inescapable truths emphasized by sabremetrics (hell, decades before that, with Branch Rickey) is that athletic ability deteriorates at a dramatically faster rate than most fans (and many team executives) realize. This process almost invariably manifests after the age of 28, and rapidly accelerates after 30.
If you pack your roster with players over 30, you almost mathematically guarantee your team is going to deteriorate.
Oh, by the way, just in!! I bring tidings of great joy!!
Leyland: More bullpen tinkering
Tom Gage / The Detroit News
TOLEDO -- It's still up for grabs.
On the first day of the Tigers' annual caravan, manager Jim Leyland stopped short of labeling Fernando Rodney as the Tigers' closer.
Far short.
In fact, he hinted on Wednesday at possible deals that still could change the look of the Tigers.
"He's a big league pitcher and will be on our ballclub," Leyland said of Rodney. "He'll be a big asset in my opinion. What his role will be, I don't know yet. But he'll be a very valuable piece of our team. I'll leave it at that because I don't know how it plays out."
As for possible changes still in the works, Leyland said, "I don't think we're done tinkering with the bullpen yet. People might be surprised by what happens before spring training or during spring training.
"We'll get some things done that will upgrade our club. We're not done yet. We had some money to play with, but we've already played with it. There are still some guys we might have some interest in, though at maybe a little bit better of a bargain."
Leyland believes it helps Rodney is heading into his last year before he's eligible for free agency.
"It doesn't get to carefree guys," said Leyland before a charity function. "Some guys face their free-agent year and they have a tendency to panic a little bit. Other guys are loose as a goose. The first time Barry Bonds had a free-agent season, he went out and won the MVP.
"Some guys see that pot of gold and say, 'This is my chance.' "
Other subjects Leyland addressed included:
JOEL ZUMAYA: "We're a little cautious about him. That's a big concern for us. But we're getting good reports about him. A lot about how much the bullpen is etched in stone depends on him. That's a pretty big stone, you know.
"It could change the whole bullpen if he's healthy. His health will be a significant factor. You might even need two guys to replace him, but don't tell him I said that.
"He could be that good. He was that good in 2006."
Leyland said he won't be on pins and needles every time Zumaya throws a pitch, however.
"I don't live like that. I really don't. I'm not one who sits around and worries if the next pitch he throws will be the last. Hopefully he's healthy. Hopefully he can pitch for us. As long as he's healthy, he will pitch for us.
"If something happens that forces us to shut him down, we'll shut him down. But I hear he was throwing bullets at 90 feet the other day in Lakeland. Right now, he's looking good. We're thinking he's made a lot of progress.
"It's way too early to know, though, how he's going to look when he has to get a hitter out."
JEREMY BONDERMAN: "Our reports are that he's looking stronger and better than ever."
2008: "I definitely think we were all embarrassed about what went on last year. But it gives you a realistic approach about how difficult it is to win."
DEFENSE: "We're going to be a lot better. Basically we have a ground-ball pitching staff so with the addition of Adam Everett at shortstop and having Brandon Inge back at third on a full-time basis, I think that side of the infield potentially is as good as any in baseball."
WORLD BASEBALL CLASSIC (and how much it'll interrupt spring training): "I'm taking the positive approach on that. The last time there was a WBC, we went to the World Series. Obviously it didn't affect us that year."
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"The neighborhood just got tougher," Tressel said the day Dantonio was hired.
Tigers anticipating great improvement
Inge: 'I'm revamped ... at peace'
Lynn Henning / The Detroit News
GRAND RAPIDS -- Brandon Inge's change has been as much physical as psychological since the end of a 2008 baseball season that, for him, was akin to an investor's year on Wall Street.
The Tigers' newly re-appointed third baseman weighs almost 200 pounds, up from the low 180s midway through last season. And if there's any lard there, it wasn't conspicuous Wednesday night at the Marriott Hotel here, where Inge was inducted into the West Michigan Whitecaps Hall of Fame.
"As strong as I've ever been," said Inge, whose return to third base is part of Detroit's hyper-focus on defense in 2009. "Much stronger than I was (in 2006, when he hit 27 home runs)."
But it's his reclamation of third base after a dizzying and dispiriting 2008 season that had Inge looking Wednesday as if he had just found a long-lost pet.
"This is probably as excited as I've ever been to go to spring training," said Inge, who appeared at the Whitecaps banquet along with Curtis Granderson and Tigers president and general manager Dave Dombrowski.
A crowd of 1,000 packed the Marriott's ballroom as the Tigers officially began their 2009 winter publicity caravan at the home of their lower-level Class A affiliate.
Inge's passion for playing third base explained his disconsolation a year ago after the Tigers landed then-third baseman Miguel Cabrera in a mammoth trade with the Florida Marlins.
He showed up at spring camp sullen and resigned to a trade the Tigers tried hard to make. Inge eventually started at catcher after Pudge Rodriguez was traded in July. The Tigers' revised infield plans had already fallen apart.
By the end of the season, Guillen was hurt and Inge was back playing third base, and Tigers manager Jim Leyland announced he would start there in 2009.
The restoration of his old job helped persuade Inge to get to work in a bid to turn around his two-season slump at the plate. After batting .253 with 27 home runs and 83 RBIs in 2006, he slipped to .236 and 14 home runs and 71 RBIs in 2007. Last season's personal nightmare was marked by his worst full season: .205 batting average, 11 home runs, 51 RBIs.
But his two-year tailspin, says Inge, is bad history that will be reversed in 2009. The past week spent at Comerica Park with Tigers hitting coach Lloyd McClendon confirmed it.
"I'm revamped," he said. "I don't want to get into it too much, but Lloyd and myself are at a very good place. I'm at peace with it. I'm not overanalyzing or overthinking."
Inge's power and pull-hitting preferences led to pitchers adjusting on him in 2007. He never comfortably was able to change. He and McClendon also had differences as things fell apart in 2008.
But returning to third, and an offseason's reflection on where he was in 2006, have convinced Inge -- and Dombrowski -- that his offense could rival his celestial defense in 2009. Inge said he saw the difference on video and was able to process it completely during the past few months.
"Because of my bad mechanics, I couldn't understand what the hitting coaches were talking about," he said. "Now, I think I can have a year above and beyond '06."
"This guy's gonna be better," Dombrowski said, tapping Inge on the shoulder. "One reason is that he's such a good athlete."
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"The neighborhood just got tougher," Tressel said the day Dantonio was hired.
Location: Boo Hoo Land, where the little brats go crying to Big Daddy when the mean man hurts their feelings
Posts: 26,882
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJC
Glad to see Brandon "Big Baby" Inge happy.
Tigers anticipating great improvement
Inge: 'I'm revamped ... at peace'
Lynn Henning / The Detroit News
GRAND RAPIDS -- Brandon Inge's change has been as much physical as psychological since the end of a 2008 baseball season that, for him, was akin to an investor's year on Wall Street.
The Tigers' newly re-appointed third baseman weighs almost 200 pounds, up from the low 180s midway through last season. And if there's any lard there, it wasn't conspicuous Wednesday night at the Marriott Hotel here, where Inge was inducted into the West Michigan Whitecaps Hall of Fame.
"As strong as I've ever been," said Inge, whose return to third base is part of Detroit's hyper-focus on defense in 2009. "Much stronger than I was (in 2006, when he hit 27 home runs)."
Back on the juice??
Quote:
But it's his reclamation of third base after a dizzying and dispiriting 2008 season that had Inge looking Wednesday as if he had just found a long-lost pet.
"This is probably as excited as I've ever been to go to spring training," said Inge, who appeared at the Whitecaps banquet along with Curtis Granderson and Tigers president and general manager Dave Dombrowski.
A crowd of 1,000 packed the Marriott's ballroom as the Tigers officially began their 2009 winter publicity caravan at the home of their lower-level Class A affiliate.
Inge's passion for playing third base explained his disconsolation a year ago after the Tigers landed then-third baseman Miguel Cabrera in a mammoth trade with the Florida Marlins.
Really, who the hell is Miguel Cabrera that he should shove Brandon Inge out of the lineup (ohhhh, except from all appearances a Hall of Famer in the making)?
Quote:
He showed up at spring camp sullen and resigned to a trade the Tigers tried hard to make. Inge eventually started at catcher after Pudge Rodriguez was traded in July.
Well, actually, due to Leyland/Dombrowski's relentless quest to find/make playing time for Brandon Inge, he started at catcher half-time BEFORE Pudge Rodriguez was shipped out of town, this fact in no small part convincing Rodriguez the Tigers had no plans to keep him anyway and leading to the trade.
That was, of course, Ivan Rodriguez, the OTHER Hall-of-Fame-bound player over whom Inge threw a $#$#-fit over losing his starting job when the Tigers acquired HIM.
Quote:
The Tigers' revised infield plans had already fallen apart.
By the end of the season, Guillen was hurt and Inge was back playing third base, and Tigers manager Jim Leyland announced he would start there in 2009.
The restoration of his old job helped persuade Inge to get to work in a bid to turn around his two-season slump at the plate. After batting .253 with 27 home runs and 83 RBIs in 2006, he slipped to .236 and 14 home runs and 71 RBIs in 2007. Last season's personal nightmare was marked by his worst full season: .205 batting average, 11 home runs, 51 RBIs.
Good thing you qualified that with "full season," Lynn, because actually 2008 was NOT Inge's worst season -- it was his FOURTH worst season (2001, .180; 2002, .202; 2003, .203). Inge hitting .205 is not any unusual event -- he has hit .205 or below in 4 of his 8 major league seasons.
Quote:
But his two-year tailspin, says Inge, is bad history that will be reversed in 2009. The past week spent at Comerica Park with Tigers hitting coach Lloyd McClendon confirmed it.
You betcha. Three or four hours in the batting cage has completely reversed the trends of the last two years and 300 games.
Quote:
"I'm revamped," he said. "I don't want to get into it too much, but Lloyd and myself are at a very good place. I'm at peace with it. I'm not overanalyzing or overthinking."
Inge's power and pull-hitting preferences led to pitchers adjusting on him in 2007. He never comfortably was able to change. He and McClendon also had differences as things fell apart in 2008.
But returning to third, and an offseason's reflection on where he was in 2006, have convinced Inge -- and Dombrowski -- that his offense could rival his celestial defense
(Come on, go ahead, throw in a quote about how Inge is the greatest defensive 3B in the majors -- ah hell, go ahead and say it -- the greatest third baseman of all time !!!!!!!!!!! )
Quote:
in 2009. Inge said he saw the difference on video and was able to process it completely during the past few months.
"Because of my bad mechanics, I couldn't understand what the hitting coaches were talking about," he said. "Now, I think I can have a year above and beyond '06."
"This guy's gonna be better," Dombrowski said, tapping Inge on the shoulder. "One reason is that he's such a good athlete."
Location: Where you can buy a home for the price of a VCR.
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Mark Dantonio
Quote:
Originally Posted by IGGcitable
Back on the juice??
Really, who the hell is Miguel Cabrera that he should shove Brandon Inge out of the lineup (ohhhh, except from all appearances a Hall of Famer in the making)?
Well, actually, due to Leyland/Dombrowski's relentless quest to find/make playing time for Brandon Inge, he started at catcher half-time BEFORE Pudge Rodriguez was shipped out of town, this fact in no small part convincing Rodriguez the Tigers had no plans to keep him anyway and leading to the trade.
That was, of course, Ivan Rodriguez, the OTHER Hall-of-Fame-bound player over whom Inge threw a $#$#-fit over losing his starting job when the Tigers acquired HIM. Good thing you qualified that with "full season," Lynn, because actually 2008 was NOT Inge's worst season -- it was his FOURTH worst season (2001, .180; 2002, .202; 2003, .203). Inge hitting .205 is not any unusual event -- he has hit .205 or below in 4 of his 8 major league seasons.
You betcha. Three or four hours in the batting cage has completely reversed the trends of the last two years and 300 games.
(Come on, go ahead, throw in a quote about how Inge is the greatest defensive 3B in the majors -- ah hell, go ahead and say it -- the greatest third baseman of all time !!!!!!!!!!! )
At this point I would sign him and Lyon hoping 1 of them would pan out as closer, We do not have a reliable bullpen, I caught grief for that last year and fire away this year. The tigers will not make the world series with this group. Too many injuries hoping to come back and too many middle of the road old guys like me.
I wish the Tigers well, but I do not see them making any noise with the lineup they have. I hope I am wrong but something strikes me as missing from this team.
I wish the Tigers well, but I do not see them making any noise with the lineup they have. I hope I am wrong but something strikes me as missing from this team.
the lineup would be fine if guys would stay healthy. the odds of guillen or shef being out with injuries is almost known at this point but they both cannot be out of the lineup. that definantly hurt last year
I wish the Tigers well, but I do not see them making any noise with the lineup they have. I hope I am wrong but something strikes me as missing from this team.
Granderson, Polanco, Cabrera, Magglio, Guillen is your top 5. They'll score runs.
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Maybe if Dombrowski would quit combing the earth to find every mediocre middle-aged nondescript journeyman semi-replacement-level player on the face of the planet to snap them up for the roster, I would quit hammering the point.
One of the utterly most inescapable truths emphasized by sabremetrics (hell, decades before that, with Branch Rickey) is that athletic ability deteriorates at a dramatically faster rate than most fans (and many team executives) realize. This process almost invariably manifests after the age of 28, and rapidly accelerates after 30.
If you pack your roster with players over 30, you almost mathematically guarantee your team is going to deteriorate.
You do realize that Juan Rincon is a non-roster invitee, right? Which would mean he's.....not filling the roster with Rincon...You act like no successful team has ever signed older relievers as non-roster invitees and gotten anything out of them.
Before 2006, the Dodgers signed up a washed up 36 year old closer from Japan to a minor league contract. I'm sure if you were a Dodgers fan, you would've had your usual hissy fit with 40 smilies per post, cause this was a guy who was old AND declining in Japan. Of course, that was Takashi Saito, who has a career MLB ERA of 1.95.
That's not an isolated incident because just about every team gets unexpected contributions from veteran relievers at least once or twice a year. Tim Byrdak was a non-roster invitee who hadn't done **** in his career and was signed at age 33, and was very effective in 07.
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The Tigers sign Scott Williamson to a minor league deal. It definitely looks like DD is using the throw as much crap as possible against the wall and see what sticks approach. Scott Williamson to sign with Tigers - CBSSports.com
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The Tigers sign Scott Williamson to a minor league deal. It definitely looks like DD is using the throw as much crap as possible against the wall and see what sticks approach. Scott Williamson to sign with Tigers - CBSSports.com
Juan Rincon and Scott Williamson? DD stole my Tigers roster from MVP Baseball '05.
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Location: Boo Hoo Land, where the little brats go crying to Big Daddy when the mean man hurts their feelings
Posts: 26,882
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuGWit
Hey guys I can ask a question to the team or player. What should I ask Inge?
Hey, how about this, why don't we bench Ordonez and let you hit cleanup, would that make you happy? Because, of course, making you happy is the ultimate objective of this entire franchise.
Anybody else you want us to bench/release/shift positions/alienate into demanding a trade in order to accomplish this goal? Any other Hall of Famers we should jack around in the lineup in order to acommodate you?
So let us get it straight now, you really really do want to play third base? It's all OK with you? You're not going to change your mind in a matter of a couple weeks and start huffing and puffing to your buddy-pals in the media that you don't want to play a position any more, like you did off and on for about four years about catching? We'll inform Mr. Leyland of what positions you will be happy playing, and everything should be wonderful.
Last edited by IGGcitable; 01-22-2009 at 05:40 PM.
Juan Rincon and Scott Williamson? DD stole my Tigers roster from MVP Baseball '05.
Good moves though. They are minor league deals. If they pitch well and make the team, . If not, oh well.
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RIDE TO CUREDIABETES
I did it! 105 degree and 105 miles in Death Valley in 1 day. But it's nothing compared to what my wife and daughter do daily dealing with Type 1 diabetes.
I'm riding to raise awareness, to raise $$, but, at the end of the day, I'm riding so some day someone can say to my daughter...
"Ellie, when we were kids, what was it you had again?"
...and so I ride.
October 17, 2009
http://ride.jdrf.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=rideCentral.personalpage&riderID=8694
Good moves though. They are minor league deals. If they pitch well and make the team, . If not, oh well.
DD's filling the roster with old men by....not putting them on the roster
--- Iggy
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Juan Rincon and Scott Williamson? DD stole my Tigers roster from MVP Baseball '05.
I wonder what Rocky Biddle is up to
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problem is, those guys clog up training camp, soaking up PT, ABs and IPs from other prospects with actual potential.
if you're going to sign up a boatload of mediocre players, sign up a boatload of YOUNG mediocre players, who actually have some chance toget better.
Yeah, I forgot. Should have signed that 24 year old Cy Young, All-Star reliever.
They aren't going to "clog up training camp".
__________________
RIDE TO CUREDIABETES
I did it! 105 degree and 105 miles in Death Valley in 1 day. But it's nothing compared to what my wife and daughter do daily dealing with Type 1 diabetes.
I'm riding to raise awareness, to raise $$, but, at the end of the day, I'm riding so some day someone can say to my daughter...
"Ellie, when we were kids, what was it you had again?"
...and so I ride.
October 17, 2009
http://ride.jdrf.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=rideCentral.personalpage&riderID=8694
problem is, those guys clog up training camp, soaking up PT, ABs and IPs from other prospects with actual potential.
if you're going to sign up a boatload of mediocre players, sign up a boatload of YOUNG mediocre players, who actually have some chance toget better.
You and I both know that there are no young FA relievers looking for minor league deals. Those guy are still in teams' minor league systems.
And, unlike position players, veteran relievers improve from year to year quite often.
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Yeah, I forgot. Should have signed that 24 year old Cy Young, All-Star reliever.
They aren't going to "clog up training camp".
Clog up training camp? What is there a lack of dugout space in Lakeland?
There are something like 6 levels of minor league ball in each organization. There's room for Juan Rincon and Scott Williamson.
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