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12-08-2008, 02:47 PM
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#176 (permalink)
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 #17 Kyle Nichol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by See Their Team Is WEAAAK!
This makes no sense whatsoever. Jurrjens was a future stud and major league ready. Moscoso is neither of those things. And Gorkys Hernandez is better than that Carlos Melo. I don't see any similarities.
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Moscoso is one of the better pitching prospects in the organization.
No doubt he is farther away from MLB ready than Jurrjens was at the time ... about a year. However, we also didn't get an all-star SS to fill a need. We got a marginal catcher.
__________________
RIDE TO CURE DIABETES
I did it! 105 degree and 105 miles in Death Valley in 1 day. But it's nothing compared to what my wife and daughter do daily dealing with Type 1 diabetes.
I'm riding to raise awareness, to raise $$, but, at the end of the day, I'm riding so some day someone can say to my daughter...
"Ellie, when we were kids, what was it you had again?"
...and so I ride. 
October 17, 2009
http://ride.jdrf.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=rideCentral.personalpage&riderID=8694
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12-08-2008, 02:51 PM
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#177 (permalink)
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#17 Kyle Nichol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrot Head
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Moscoso is definitely not ready ... yet. He is probably a year away.
Point is that we gave up a young pitcher with potential for a "need" right now. Jurrjens was definitely more valuable when traded last year - and so was Renteria.
This is the same thing on a little smaller scale.
__________________
RIDE TO CURE DIABETES
I did it! 105 degree and 105 miles in Death Valley in 1 day. But it's nothing compared to what my wife and daughter do daily dealing with Type 1 diabetes.
I'm riding to raise awareness, to raise $$, but, at the end of the day, I'm riding so some day someone can say to my daughter...
"Ellie, when we were kids, what was it you had again?"
...and so I ride.
October 17, 2009
http://ride.jdrf.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=rideCentral.personalpage&riderID=8694
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12-08-2008, 03:03 PM
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#178 (permalink)
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#1 Kalin Lucas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogg
Moscoso is definitely not ready ... yet. He is probably a year away.
Point is that we gave up a young pitcher with potential for a "need" right now. Jurrjens was definitely more valuable when traded last year - and so was Renteria.
This is the same thing on a little smaller scale.
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Well I think the scale is the difference. If Renteria had played well with the Tigers and Jurrjens wouldn't have pitched particularly well last year, the trade would've been fine. This only becomes a bad trade if Moscoso significantly outplays Laird, and I don't think he will.
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12-08-2008, 03:11 PM
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#179 (permalink)
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#23 Draymond Green
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogg
Moscoso is definitely not ready ... yet. He is probably a year away.
Point is that we gave up a young pitcher with potential for a "need" right now. Jurrjens was definitely more valuable when traded last year - and so was Renteria.
This is the same thing on a little smaller scale.
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Moscoso has never pitched above 100 innings. I don't even think he has pitched in Erie or Toledo. Moscosso was never going to sniff the Tigers rotation. This guy is a year younger than Bonderman, and hasn't pitched in the big leagues.
And even if he would be ready in 1-2 years, the Tigers have Porcello and Crosby ready to make their MLB debut in 2010. So if a mircale happens, and he turns out to be decent, those two will make up for it.
The Tigers traded him because they had a need like you said, who else would you suggest they look at for catcher? They needed another catcher, and that was the price it took
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12-08-2008, 04:11 PM
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#180 (permalink)
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#26 Jesse Johnson
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the tigers cant really do much with a bad shef contract, a bad robertson contract, ect. so it will take a year or two before we can do something big. i think if we stay healthy we will make the playoffs next year. I would rather have Salty than Laird though.
here are some other interests
tigers are looking at the option of bringing back JJ Putz to the state of michigan. they are also considering Kerry Wood as a closer.
Pittsburgh paper saying we are about to get Adam Everett and will not trade for Jack Wilson
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12-08-2008, 04:15 PM
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#181 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnsmi4
Pittsburgh paper saying we are about to get Adam Everett and will not trade for Jack Wilson
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32 years old, hit .213 last season, makes $2.8 million, swell, sounds like he fits perfectly into our plans.
  
Christ, if you're gonna do that, rocket Cale Iorg to the majors and throw him in the lineup, odds are about 90% he could hit at least .213, you'd be paying him about 1/10th as much, and the odds are probably 10 times as good he would make the adjustment and become a decent MLB player than the odds that Adam Everett will be worth a crap in the upcoming 5 years.
And you'd have the bonus of having an actual decent MLB player at the age of 23-24.
Everett is 32 years old, his lifetime BA is .246. His BA's the last 5 seasons are .273, .248, .239, .232, .213.
You know what the next number in that sequence is? About .196, that's what.
What the hell is hard to figure out about that trend?
A player like Adam Everett is an absolute waste at any price. The extra-insane part is that Everett is not a bargain-basement player, he is not minimum-wage, he makes $2.8 million and probably more next year.
What do they want, him and Inge to form a "Dungeon Duo" of guys hitting under .200 on the end of the batting order? Some kind of Bizarro World anti-DH experiment to find out how a team would do with two pitchers in the batting order?????
What kills teams is not paying $10 million to Magglio Ordonez and Miguel Cabrera; what kills teams is paying $3 million to stiffs like Adam Everett, who basically shouldn't be in the majors at all.
Last edited by IGGcitable; 12-08-2008 at 04:48 PM.
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12-08-2008, 04:16 PM
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#182 (permalink)
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#1 Kalin Lucas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by See Their Team Is WEAAAK!
Well I think the scale is the difference. If Renteria had played well with the Tigers and Jurrjens wouldn't have pitched particularly well last year, the trade would've been fine. This only becomes a bad trade if Moscoso significantly outplays Laird, and I don't think he will.
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Stop posting as me.
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12-08-2008, 04:39 PM
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#183 (permalink)
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#17 Kyle Nichol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrot Head
Moscoso has never pitched above 100 innings. I don't even think he has pitched in Erie or Toledo. Moscosso was never going to sniff the Tigers rotation. This guy is a year younger than Bonderman, and hasn't pitched in the big leagues.
And even if he would be ready in 1-2 years, the Tigers have Porcello and Crosby ready to make their MLB debut in 2010. So if a mircale happens, and he turns out to be decent, those two will make up for it.
The Tigers traded him because they had a need like you said, who else would you suggest they look at for catcher? They needed another catcher, and that was the price it took
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Top 10 prospect ( BaseballAmerica.com: Prospects: Rankings: Organization Top 10 Prospects: Detroit Tigers Top 10 Prospects) for a very average catcher.
__________________
RIDE TO CURE DIABETES
I did it! 105 degree and 105 miles in Death Valley in 1 day. But it's nothing compared to what my wife and daughter do daily dealing with Type 1 diabetes.
I'm riding to raise awareness, to raise $$, but, at the end of the day, I'm riding so some day someone can say to my daughter...
"Ellie, when we were kids, what was it you had again?"
...and so I ride.
October 17, 2009
http://ride.jdrf.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=rideCentral.personalpage&riderID=8694
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12-08-2008, 04:40 PM
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#184 (permalink)
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#17 Kyle Nichol
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FOX Sports on MSN - MLB - LIVE: Latest updates from winter meetings
Quote:
3:27 p.m. — Tigers have deal with Everett
The Tigers have reached agreement with free-agent shortstop Adam Everett, according to a major-league source.
The deal will be worth approximately $1 million, plus incentives, and is pending a physical.
Detroit also made official its deal with the Rangers to acquire catcher Gerald Laird, meaning the Tigers have addressed their catcher and shortstop needs in the span of about 24 hours.
Everett hit .213 in 48 games for the Twins last season. He spent seven seasons with the Astros prior to his stint in Minnesota.
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__________________
RIDE TO CURE DIABETES
I did it! 105 degree and 105 miles in Death Valley in 1 day. But it's nothing compared to what my wife and daughter do daily dealing with Type 1 diabetes.
I'm riding to raise awareness, to raise $$, but, at the end of the day, I'm riding so some day someone can say to my daughter...
"Ellie, when we were kids, what was it you had again?"
...and so I ride.
October 17, 2009
http://ride.jdrf.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=rideCentral.personalpage&riderID=8694
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12-08-2008, 04:42 PM
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#185 (permalink)
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#17 Kyle Nichol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrot Head
The Tigers traded him because they had a need like you said, who else would you suggest they look at for catcher? They needed another catcher, and that was the price it took
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Which is the exact same mentality that was applied to the Renteria trade. "they had a need", "and that was the price it took"
__________________
RIDE TO CURE DIABETES
I did it! 105 degree and 105 miles in Death Valley in 1 day. But it's nothing compared to what my wife and daughter do daily dealing with Type 1 diabetes.
I'm riding to raise awareness, to raise $$, but, at the end of the day, I'm riding so some day someone can say to my daughter...
"Ellie, when we were kids, what was it you had again?"
...and so I ride.
October 17, 2009
http://ride.jdrf.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=rideCentral.personalpage&riderID=8694
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12-08-2008, 04:47 PM
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#186 (permalink)
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#23 Draymond Green
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogg
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top 10 prospect in one of the ****est farm systems in MLB. He is not good average at best. The Tigers got a starter out of it. He wasn't going to become anything on the Tigers anyways
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Staying in EL for another year
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12-08-2008, 04:47 PM
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#187 (permalink)
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Mark Dantonio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogg
Which is the exact same mentality that was applied to the Renteria trade. "they had a need", "and that was the price it took"
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Which is why I had no problem with that deal when it happened.
Dombrowski took a chance on a 5 time all star, and a career near .300 hitter.
It just didnt work out.
__________________
"This was not the fall of Michigan football," he said. "That's not what this is about. What this was about was Spartan pride. ... What I'm concerned about is, we took a step forward in the eyes of the people who live in Michigan. We need to change the culture here, that when there's a loss we're going to go ditch it. I think we're trying to change that and I think we've done that." - Mark Dantonio - 10/25/08
 For life.
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12-08-2008, 04:50 PM
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#188 (permalink)
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogg
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OH MY SWEET GOD
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Me
Everett is 32 years old, his lifetime BA is .246. His BA's the last 5 seasons are .273, .248, .239, .232, .213.
You know what the next number in that sequence is? About .196, that's what.
What the hell is hard to figure out about that trend?
A player like Adam Everett is an absolute waste at any price.
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12-08-2008, 04:51 PM
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#189 (permalink)
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#17 Kyle Nichol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrot Head
top 10 prospect in one of the ****est farm systems in MLB. He is not good average at best. The Tigers got a starter out of it. He wasn't going to become anything on the Tigers anyways |
Well the farm system just got worse.
Just saw this ... apparently, I'm not the only one drawing comparison's to Jurrjens. And really, I'm not comparing him to Jurrjens as much as I'm comparing the mentality of the trade to the Renteria-Jurrjens trade.
Tigers Acquire Gerald Laird: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com
Quote:
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Baseball America ranks Moscoso tenth among Tigers prospects, noting shoulder woes but suggesting a high ceiling. They say he could end up a #3 or #4 starter. He's drawn some comparisons to Jair Jurrjens.
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__________________
RIDE TO CURE DIABETES
I did it! 105 degree and 105 miles in Death Valley in 1 day. But it's nothing compared to what my wife and daughter do daily dealing with Type 1 diabetes.
I'm riding to raise awareness, to raise $$, but, at the end of the day, I'm riding so some day someone can say to my daughter...
"Ellie, when we were kids, what was it you had again?"
...and so I ride.
October 17, 2009
http://ride.jdrf.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=rideCentral.personalpage&riderID=8694
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12-08-2008, 04:57 PM
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#190 (permalink)
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#23 Draymond Green
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Tigers are going to win sooooooooooooooooooooooo much next year.
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Staying in EL for another year
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12-08-2008, 05:01 PM
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#191 (permalink)
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrot Head
Tigers are going to win sooooooooooooooooooooooo much next year.
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Tonight we're gonna party like it's 2003.
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12-08-2008, 05:11 PM
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#192 (permalink)
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#17 Kyle Nichol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrot Head
Tigers are going to win sooooooooooooooooooooooo much next year.
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Yep, after a failed attempt to model the team after the Yankees (murderer's row), the team has now reverted to modeling itself after the KC Royals (defense and no hitting).
I can't wait.
__________________
RIDE TO CURE DIABETES
I did it! 105 degree and 105 miles in Death Valley in 1 day. But it's nothing compared to what my wife and daughter do daily dealing with Type 1 diabetes.
I'm riding to raise awareness, to raise $$, but, at the end of the day, I'm riding so some day someone can say to my daughter...
"Ellie, when we were kids, what was it you had again?"
...and so I ride.
October 17, 2009
http://ride.jdrf.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=rideCentral.personalpage&riderID=8694
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12-08-2008, 05:17 PM
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#193 (permalink)
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#57 Rocco Cironi
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I don't like Everett, but at 1 mil a year, it's not that bad. Sure he's no A-Rod, but he does improve up the middle D. His career fielding %, RF, and zone rating (.976, 4.69, .876) are what makes him his money (compared with Renteria's .970, .438, .810). The Tigers haven't had good up the middle D since 2006 (after which Guillen's knees went creaky and Pudge got old.)
If the prices were =, I'd rather have Wilson. That being said, Everett is nothing more than a cheap stop-gap that can be cast aside easily if something better comes along (from the minors, i.e. Worth or Iorg, or from an offer DD can't refuse...) He's also known as a good clubhouse guy, something this team was lacking last year.
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12-08-2008, 05:31 PM
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#194 (permalink)
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Tom Izzo
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Let's face it, last year took all the momentum the tigers had gathered from the 06,07 seasons. This team will not be sniffing the playoffs for a good 3-4 years. I would love to say that the tigers are going to contend next year but IMHO i do not think they will. A spilt between Everett and Santiago is better than rentawreck's sorry old ass at ss. Tigs have alot of rebuilding to do and at least they acquired a somewhat capable people at c, ss. It's time to if you are a tigers fan!
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12-08-2008, 05:38 PM
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#195 (permalink)
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Mark Dantonio
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Just listing the potential lineup: no opinions yet
1) Granderson - CF
2) Polanco - 2B
3) Guillen - LF
4) Cabrera - 1B
5) Ordonez - RF
6) Sheffield - DH
7) Laird - C
8) Inge - 3B
9) Everett/Santiago - SS
Subs:
Thames, Joyce, Ryan, Raburn
1) Verlander
2) Galarraga
3) Bonderman
4) Miner
5) Willis/Robertson
Pen: Zumaya, Rodney, Seay, Lopez, Dolsi.
__________________
"This was not the fall of Michigan football," he said. "That's not what this is about. What this was about was Spartan pride. ... What I'm concerned about is, we took a step forward in the eyes of the people who live in Michigan. We need to change the culture here, that when there's a loss we're going to go ditch it. I think we're trying to change that and I think we've done that." - Mark Dantonio - 10/25/08
For life.
Last edited by MSU ROX; 12-08-2008 at 05:40 PM.
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12-08-2008, 05:44 PM
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#196 (permalink)
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Walk-On
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#57 Rocco Cironi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjkgreen
Let's face it, last year took all the momentum the tigers had gathered from the 06,07 seasons. This team will not be sniffing the playoffs for a good 3-4 years. I would love to say that the tigers are going to contend next year but IMHO i do not think they will. A spilt between Everett and Santiago is better than rentawreck's sorry old ass at ss. Tigs have alot of rebuilding to do and at least they acquired a somewhat capable people at c, ss. It's time to if you are a tigers fan! |
I never understand why people panic over off season baseball news. Baseball has become so skittish that prognosticating outcomes at this point is incredibly fruitless.
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12-08-2008, 05:45 PM
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#197 (permalink)
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#23 Draymond Green
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The horrible signings by DD (Sheffield, Robertson, Inge, Willis, and Maggs to an extent, I think he will be making like 18 mil next year) have pushed this team back 3-4 years. Now Ilitch is reluctant to spend money on this product, because the 130 million payroll that he had last year, ended up being one of the worst teams in the league.
Tigers will struggle next year if that is the opening day lineup. They need another starter, and 2 relievers. DD will not get it done though.
75 wins next year.
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Staying in EL for another year
Last edited by Leave Cousins in!!; 12-08-2008 at 05:48 PM.
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12-08-2008, 05:48 PM
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#198 (permalink)
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#17 Kyle Nichol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSU ROX
Just listing the potential lineup: no opinions yet
1) Granderson - CF
2) Polanco - 2B
3) Guillen - LF
4) Cabrera - 1B
5) Ordonez - RF
6) Sheffield - DH
7) Laird - C
8) Inge - 3B
9) Everett/Santiago - SS
Subs:
Thames, Joyce, Ryan, Raburn
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If Raburn is on the team, I bet they go with 12 pitchers since Ryan can play both the IF and OF. I'd be shopping Carlos around for a pack of gum, but I doubt that I'd get any takers. Since that is the case, Thames probably has to go ... for pitching.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSU ROX
1) Verlander
2) Galarraga
3) Bonderman
4) Miner
5) Willis/Robertson
Pen: Zumaya, Rodney, Seay, Lopez, Dolsi.
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I hope Bondo is going to be ready by the start of the year, and Miner at number 4 has me . The rotation is the worst part of the team by far, IMHO.
I gotta believe that a starter and at least two relievers will be different by the time ST starts.
__________________
RIDE TO CURE DIABETES
I did it! 105 degree and 105 miles in Death Valley in 1 day. But it's nothing compared to what my wife and daughter do daily dealing with Type 1 diabetes.
I'm riding to raise awareness, to raise $$, but, at the end of the day, I'm riding so some day someone can say to my daughter...
"Ellie, when we were kids, what was it you had again?"
...and so I ride.
October 17, 2009
http://ride.jdrf.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=rideCentral.personalpage&riderID=8694
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12-08-2008, 05:57 PM
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#199 (permalink)
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#23 Draymond Green
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Tigers should also shop Maggs. Get his contract off the team, and pick up some nice young players that can help us right away. LAA would probably be interested
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Staying in EL for another year
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12-08-2008, 06:00 PM
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#200 (permalink)
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Walk-On
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#26 Jesse Johnson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrot Head
The horrible signings by DD (Sheffield, Robertson, Inge, Willis, and Maggs to an extent, I think he will be making like 18 mil next year) have pushed this team back 3-4 years. Now Ilitch is reluctant to spend money on this product, because the 130 million payroll that he had last year, ended up being one of the worst teams in the league.
Tigers will struggle next year if that is the opening day lineup. They need another starter, and 2 relievers. DD will not get it done though.
75 wins next year.
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shef is in his last year. if he can stay healthy we will be a good team. bullpens are a year-by-year ordeal. always a toss up. we might be Bondo at the all-star break so that will be an improvement. Verlander will probably bounce back. if indeed shef has a good year we might be able to trade him and get something for him. we do that and get rid of say a willis (even though i like him) or robertson then that frees up over 20mil and we allow the tigers to do whatever they want in a year. remember we also drafted a bunch of pitching to get the farm system back in order
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