Newspapers and Thinking the Unthinkable...

[Heat Miser]

Excellent piece for those who care about the future (or lack thereof) of newspapers & the newspaper business.

Newspapers and Thinking the Unthinkable « Clay Shirky

EDIT: To summarize: they're fugged

[macspartan]

The best two purchases in America were:

#1) The 50 cent newspaper

and

#2) the 41 cent stamp.

There is nothing better then opening the morning paper with a cup of coffee and spending as much time as possible reading the paper. As far as the stamp, to send a letter to anyone in the US and they receive it in a few days will also go away, replaced. As far as I am concerned they will be sorely missed

[Krazykyle]

No they will not.

[ISparticus]

Originally Posted by Krazykyle

No they will not.

That's a well reasoned argument.

[J T]

Originally Posted by macspartan

There is nothing better then opening the morning paper with a cup of coffee and spending as much time as possible reading the paper

What if it's the LSJ and there isn't much to read? Do you reach for something else so you can continue reading while you enjoy the rest of your coffee?

And I disagree...there IS something better than the morning paper and a cup of coffee: the morning paper and a big morning dump.

[tom78]

I have no idea who Clay Shirky is, but that is one intelligent and comprehensive essay on the state of newspapers today. It is scary, especially for people like me, who work for a newspaper.

[ISparticus]

Originally Posted by tom78

I have no idea who Clay Shirky is, but that is one intelligent and comprehensive essay on the state of newspapers today. It is scary, especially for people like me, who work for a newspaper.

Very well done...

[Claretts Folly]

Originally Posted by Brock F@%ing Samson

That's a well reasoned argument.

If they were to be sorely missed they would not be facing their ultimate demise.
If one were to argue that newspapers will be sorely missed from a sentimental point of view then I could agree. However, if the argument put forth is that newspapers will be sorely missed because it is the public's prefered medium then I would say that current purchasing trends is evidence to the contrary.

[IGGcitable]

[Spartanic]

There is one very scary aspect about vanishing newspapers to me. That is the role that Freedom of the press plays in checking the power of Government (you can throw powerful corporations and individuals in as well).
Throughout the history of this nation, newspapers have played a key role in exposing abuses and powerplays to the public. Watergate is just one example.

Watchdogs in the press were instrumental in exposing issues and serving as a common focal point for the general public. Journalists and Editors from all over the world were able to gather huge amounts of information, digest it, figure what was the most important to their readers, and emphasize those issues in the news stories everyday.

To a small extent, TV journalism helps out, but a few East Coast based TV networks pale in comparison to the capability of thousands of journalists joined by wire services all over the globe.

The Internet provides instant accessibility for the masses, but who has the time to go through thousands of blogs each day to find out about important news? And then there is the question of credibility of the items reported on the web....

We continue to subscribe to our local hometown newspaper. I think there is something valuable there worth saving.

[Awesome Robot With Lasers]

Great, great read. Thanks for posting.

[Naggs]

Originally Posted by Spartanic

There is one very scary aspect about vanishing newspapers to me. That is the role that Freedom of the press plays in checking the power of Government (you can throw powerful corporations and individuals in as well).
Throughout the history of this nation, newspapers have played a key role in exposing abuses and powerplays to the public. Watergate is just one example.

It's buried deep in that excellent yet lengthy essay, but I think the biggest point is that people don't need newspapers. They need journalism. So if newspapers fold, who is going to cover everything from the fantastic to the mundane? We don't know yet.

Kind of scary really.

[Awesome Robot With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Spartanic

There is one very scary aspect about vanishing newspapers to me. That is the role that Freedom of the press plays in checking the power of Government (you can throw powerful corporations and individuals in as well).
Throughout the history of this nation, newspapers have played a key role in exposing abuses and powerplays to the public. Watergate is just one example.

Watchdogs in the press were instrumental in exposing issues and serving as a common focal point for the general public. Journalists and Editors from all over the world were able to gather huge amounts of information, digest it, figure what was the most important to their readers, and emphasize those issues in the news stories everyday.

To a small extent, TV journalism helps out, but a few East Coast based TV networks pale in comparison to the capability of thousands of journalists joined by wire services all over the globe.

The Internet provides instant accessibility for the masses, but who has the time to go through thousands of blogs each day to find out about important news? And then there is the question of credibility of the items reported on the web....

We continue to subscribe to our local hometown newspaper. I think there is something valuable there worth saving.

You're missing the point. That essay argues that newspapers will disappear, not journalism. Journalism will continue to exist as long as things happen, but the print model of newspapers with editors and everything is dead, and it won't be replaced by anything, because the entire concept has been blown up. Not saying everything that's going on right now outside of newspapers functions well, but that's because the Internet is still insanely young and it will take awhile for everything to shake out.

[Blaine Fabin]

Originally Posted by Heat Miser

Excellent piece for those who care about the future (or lack thereof) of newspapers & the newspaper business.

Newspapers and Thinking the Unthinkable « Clay Shirky

EDIT: To summarize: they're fugged

Heat Miser,

That is a great piece, thanks for posting!

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by Naggs

It's buried deep in that excellent yet lengthy essay, but I think the biggest point is that people don't need newspapers. They need journalism. So if newspapers fold, who is going to cover everything from the fantastic to the mundane? We don't know yet.

Kind of scary really.

I hope to God it isn't the ADHD attention whores posting on Twitter.

[Trevor Barnes]

Originally Posted by Spartanic

There is one very scary aspect about vanishing newspapers to me. That is the role that Freedom of the press plays in checking the power of Government (you can throw powerful corporations and individuals in as well).
Throughout the history of this nation, newspapers have played a key role in exposing abuses and powerplays to the public. Watergate is just one example.

Watchdogs in the press were instrumental in exposing issues and serving as a common focal point for the general public. Journalists and Editors from all over the world were able to gather huge amounts of information, digest it, figure what was the most important to their readers, and emphasize those issues in the news stories everyday.

To a small extent, TV journalism helps out, but a few East Coast based TV networks pale in comparison to the capability of thousands of journalists joined by wire services all over the globe.

The Internet provides instant accessibility for the masses, but who has the time to go through thousands of blogs each day to find out about important news? And then there is the question of credibility of the items reported on the web....

We continue to subscribe to our local hometown newspaper. I think there is something valuable there worth saving.

Written journalism isn't going to go away. It'll just be delivered in a different way.

[tom78]

Originally Posted by Clarett's Folly

If they were to be sorely missed they would not be facing their ultimate demise.
If one were to argue that newspapers will be sorely missed from a sentimental point of view then I could agree. However, if the argument put forth is that newspapers will be sorely missed because it is the public's prefered medium then I would say that current purchasing trends is evidence to the contrary.

Prettty simple...people want the content, but they think everything on the internet should be free. Newspapers provide news content on the web, but can't charge for it (except The Wall Street Journal) because that would limit visitors to their site. The fewer visitors to their site, the less advertising they can sell.

I see a lot of people here linking articles from LSJ, the Freep, News, etc. It's all shared, and guess what..nobody pays for it. SInce most people want the content (news, sports, business) the idea that newspapers can deliver it is not dead..It's the delivery method that is changing.

[hexydes]

Newspapers are dying and will die because they refused to properly integrate into technology. They were late to arrive to the Internet, when they got there they tried to charge on a subscription model (competing against sources that survived on ad revenue), they had text when others had pictures, pictures when others had tiny videos, and tiny videos when others were getting larger/higher-quality videos. About the only thing they were still good for was classifieds, and CraigsList made short work of that.

There's a place for the newspaper, and it's called the Internet. The better papers, that have good news, unbiased sources, and the skill to exist online, will make that transition. The rest will die, and good riddance to them.

[Spartanic]

Originally Posted by Awesome Robot With Lasers

You're missing the point. That essay argues that newspapers will disappear, not journalism. Journalism will continue to exist as long as things happen, but the print model of newspapers with editors and everything is dead, and it won't be replaced by anything, because the entire concept has been blown up. Not saying everything that's going on right now outside of newspapers functions well, but that's because the Internet is still insanely young and it will take awhile for everything to shake out.

I understand the "journalism" point.

My concerns revolve around the credibility of the reporting, and who controls the reporting.

Local reporters who write for newspapers have traditionally been known by the people in their communities. Tends to breed in a degree of responsibility into the reporting. Local papers also tend to describe how various issues affect your local community.

TV and Internet reporting are also both more susceptible to abuse and manipulation.

[sprtnbrn]

Originally Posted by hexydes

Newspapers are dying and will die because they refused to properly integrate into technology. They were late to arrive to the Internet, when they got there they tried to charge on a subscription model (competing against sources that survived on ad revenue), they had text when others had pictures, pictures when others had tiny videos, and tiny videos when others were getting larger/higher-quality videos. About the only thing they were still good for was classifieds, and CraigsList made short work of that.

There's a place for the newspaper, and it's called the Internet. The better papers, that have good news, unbiased sources, and the skill to exist online, will make that transition. The rest will die, and good riddance to them.

Bingo. I've said before that quality journalism will win out because people want good information. What we're seeing right now is bloody, painful, and necessary. I understand some quality newspapers are going down but they will be replaced. What won't be replaced is bad journalism (see ya Rob Parker, Jay Mariotti, etc).

[JazzyGR]

Originally Posted by Spartanic

There is one very scary aspect about vanishing newspapers to me. That is the role that Freedom of the press plays in checking the power of Government (you can throw powerful corporations and individuals in as well).
Throughout the history of this nation, newspapers have played a key role in exposing abuses and powerplays to the public. Watergate is just one example.

Watchdogs in the press were instrumental in exposing issues and serving as a common focal point for the general public. Journalists and Editors from all over the world were able to gather huge amounts of information, digest it, figure what was the most important to their readers, and emphasize those issues in the news stories everyday.

To a small extent, TV journalism helps out, but a few East Coast based TV networks pale in comparison to the capability of thousands of journalists joined by wire services all over the globe.

The Internet provides instant accessibility for the masses, but who has the time to go through thousands of blogs each day to find out about important news? And then there is the question of credibility of the items reported on the web....

We continue to subscribe to our local hometown newspaper. I think there is something valuable there worth saving.

Newspapers themselves never protected the public, revealed corruption or furthered the common good; the dispersal of information did.

Many would also argue that credibility (or lack thereof) has been one reason for the decline of some newspapers, notably the New York Times. The fact is that many large newspapers have moved far beyond reporting news, and into the realm of editing information to strengthen a pre-existing view point.

Information is more readily available, more current, and while blogs may be popular with some, the information is still available from reputable, established sources. What has changed is the delivery method, and the fact that anyone, anywhere can theoretically break a story, instead of relying on stalwarts of professionalism like Dan Rather and Mitch Albom.

[Heat Miser]

Originally Posted by Blaine Fabin

Heat Miser,

That is a great piece, thanks for posting!

You're welcome. I'd never heard of this Shirky fellow before today, but he does some excellent work.

Two more very good pieces from his blog:
Why iTunes is not a workable model for the newspaper business
Why Small Payments Won’t Save Publishers

[Awesome Robot With Lasers]

Originally Posted by hexydes

Newspapers are dying and will die because they refused to properly integrate into technology. They were late to arrive to the Internet, when they got there they tried to charge on a subscription model (competing against sources that survived on ad revenue), they had text when others had pictures, pictures when others had tiny videos, and tiny videos when others were getting larger/higher-quality videos. About the only thing they were still good for was classifieds, and CraigsList made short work of that.

There's a place for the newspaper, and it's called the Internet. The better papers, that have good news, unbiased sources, and the skill to exist online, will make that transition. The rest will die, and good riddance to them.

Yeah, that's exactly what this article is about except 10,000 times more interesting than what you said. It even specifically mentions Craigslist.

[Awesome Robot With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Spartanic

I understand the "journalism" point.

My concerns revolve around the credibility of the reporting, and who controls the reporting.

Local reporters who write for newspapers have traditionally been known by the people in their communities. Tends to breed in a degree of responsibility into the reporting. Local papers also tend to describe how various issues affect your local community.

TV and Internet reporting are also both more susceptible to abuse and manipulation.

I have next to no faith in who controls the reporting, and I thank the Internet for that. I'm not saying all people reporting on the Internet are trustworthy, far from it, but why should I have any faith in the news media at this point? Too much has been exposed for me to trust them at all. The above essay points out how right now we don't know who to trust, because we're in the middle of a complete transformation of how information is disseminated.

[Spartanic]

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

Written journalism isn't going to go away. It'll just be delivered in a different way.

Agree. My concern is that the alternative delivery systems currently available are much more susceptible to manipulation and mis-use.