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05-08-2009, 06:04 PM
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#151 (permalink)
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 Sparty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locd32
Wow, I think hex just went over a few of your heads....
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I figured sarcasm, but decided to answer the sarcastic question anyways. Works a little better that way in making a point.
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05-08-2009, 06:05 PM
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#152 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locd32
Even when the hardware is comparable Macs still cost upwards of $1000+ more then PC's.
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I agree, but it would make a better comparison and would allow for some conclusions. Instead it does nothing but confuse people and allow for false claims.
edit: OK, $1000 is a bit much, but yes much more.
Last edited by scott91575; 05-08-2009 at 06:10 PM.
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05-08-2009, 06:09 PM
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#153 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman
False. I would love to see your side-by-side comparison to back up your statement. I won't hold my breath.
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Well, not $1000. Yet I have a Dell XPS 1530. The same exact MacBook Pro at the time cost over $700 more. I even have a LED backlit screen, 9 cell battery with comparable life, same GPU, same processor, etc. I even have more hardrive space than the Mac, a 3 year warranty with accidental coverage, and 3 years of anti virus (something Mac users love to point to as additional PC costs). So $1000 is a bit much, but I paid $1800 and the same MacBook Pro was $2500. I did look at a MacBook Pro, but I just couldn't justify $700 extra for it. Of course I also like to play video games, which really killed the Mac for me.
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05-08-2009, 06:37 PM
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#154 (permalink)
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 Site Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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Macs are fine. Overpriced and overrated, but they do seem to inspire brand loyalty so they must be doing something right. It's just a personal choice. I've got Intel based machines that have been running fine for over 10 years and laptops at least 5 years old that have never needed service. People just need to see past all the propaganda that Apple throws out and make some informed decisions for themselves. I don't think they are worth all that money, but I'm not an average user either.
And viruses/spyware have got to be the biggest red herring out there. I haven't run virus protection on my home computers in over 7 years and I look at lots of porn and download torrents like a mofo. Just don't be stupid and you'll likely never have to worry about a virus. Schedule a spyware scan once a month and happy browsing.
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05-08-2009, 06:39 PM
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#155 (permalink)
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Walk-On
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#8 Kirk Cousins
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I just don't really like Apple computers. It seems like that's a crime these days...
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05-08-2009, 06:43 PM
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#156 (permalink)
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#82 Keshawn Martin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arfabe16
I just don't really like Apple computers. It seems like that's a crime these days...
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awwww...
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PLATE OF SHRIMP
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05-09-2009, 12:10 AM
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#157 (permalink)
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#45 Andrew Hawken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locd32
Wow, I think hex just went over a few of your heads....
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05-09-2009, 12:51 AM
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#158 (permalink)
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Dan Enos
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05-09-2009, 12:59 AM
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#159 (permalink)
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#45 Andrew Hawken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locd32
I just built a higher end PC for roughly $1600 (at the time of purchase back in Nov, software included in price). My PC is probably cheaper to build now. The equivalent in a Mac (or the best I can find considering Macs serious lack of options) TODAY is $2900 (less monitor as my PC price was). That's a $1300 difference, I think I actually low-balled it a little with the $1000 statement.
Just to be clear on what I built here it is so you can check the prices:
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Oh whatever, the Mac probably has better parts. Apple hardware is just better in quality. Everyone knows that.
EDIT: I also like how, in every one of these discussions, all of you Mac fanatics refers to it as "Mac vs. PC", yet I'm the only one conscientious enough to take the time to write "Mac PC and Windows PC", since both platforms are "PC's" (personal computers).
Of course, maybe you don't like your art box being referred to as a "computer".
Last edited by hexydes; 05-09-2009 at 01:02 AM.
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05-09-2009, 01:45 AM
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#160 (permalink)
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 Site Administrator
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Location: East Lansing, MI
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Harlon Barnett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locd32
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You could do the same comparison with most PC vendors compared to systems you custom built yourself. Only the uber-geek builds their own PC. The average user doesn't. At least compare, well, Apples to Apples. 
Also, since we're comparing Apples to Apples, please make sure the PC vendor built systems you're specing out will run OS X out of the box with no compromises or hacking.
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05-09-2009, 01:59 AM
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#161 (permalink)
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#23 Draymond Green
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locd32
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Great comparison. 
Of course you can build your own computer for cheaper, but that's also cheaper than Dell, HP, or whatever other PC manufacturers sell their models for, not just Apple. How many consumers build their own computers? Five percent?
Every time these arguments come down to price, it's always "I built my own PC for cheaper!" Good for you. Most people don't know how to build a computer, the same way most people don't know how to build their own engine. It sure is great and cheap for those who can!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.M. wood
amongst other clowns, the rodeo clown is the most respected. they are like the bad-asses of the clown world.
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05-09-2009, 02:04 AM
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#162 (permalink)
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#23 Draymond Green
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hexydes
EDIT: I also like how, in every one of these discussions, all of you Mac fanatics refers to it as "Mac vs. PC", yet I'm the only one conscientious enough to take the time to write "Mac PC and Windows PC", since both platforms are "PC's" (personal computers).
Of course, maybe you don't like your art box being referred to as a "computer".
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Which one is quicker to type? Obviously everyone involved in the discussion knows that Mac refers to hardware running OSX native, and PC refers to hardware running Windows native.
You're so conscientious. 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.M. wood
amongst other clowns, the rodeo clown is the most respected. they are like the bad-asses of the clown world.
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05-09-2009, 02:09 AM
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#163 (permalink)
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Dan Enos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes
You could do the same comparison with most PC vendors compared to systems you custom built yourself. Only the uber-geek builds their own PC. The average user doesn't. At least compare, well, Apples to Apples. |
That's kind of the point isn't it? Apple doesn't allow me to build my own Mac. I have to buy what they tell me at the price they tell me. I can't shop around, if I truely can't live without OSX I have no other option then to buy what Apple tells me. With a Windows based PC I can shop around and get the best deal out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes
Also, since we're comparing Apples to Apples, please make sure the PC vendor built systems you're specing out will run OS X out of the box with no compromises or hacking. |
Do you honestly think OSX is $1300 better then Vista? I mean that's pretty ridiculous. I know you are just trying to stir the pot but you just come off looking quite foolish here.
This is all moot anyway, I was asked to supply a side-by-side comparison of a Windows based PC and a Mac with comparable specs and I did. The numbers and specs don't lie, Macs are AT LEAST $1000 more expensive. If you want to use the flimsy argument that it's not true because average people don't build PC's then I'll counter you with this link:
iBuyPower Custom Gaming Computers - Gaming PC & Gaming Notebooks
I just configured a PC with almost the exact same components of my current PC and the total came out to $1523.00. No assembly required and it comes with a 3 year warranty. Macs are overpriced, you are paying for the brand name and nothing more...
EDIT: Let me add that I just built a Dell XPS 730x with specs close to my PC for $1999. A comparable Mac is STILL $900 more. You are buying the brand name...
Last edited by locd32; 05-09-2009 at 02:16 AM.
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05-09-2009, 02:14 AM
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#164 (permalink)
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Site Administrator
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Harlon Barnett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locd32
Do you honestly think OSX is $1300 better then Vista? I mean that's pretty ridiculous. I know you are just trying to stir the pot but you just come off looking quite foolish here.
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No, but then again, my laptop wasn't $1300 more than an equivalent Dell laptop when I got it. You come off looking foolish making statements like that when, in fact, my laptop didn't cost $1300 total when I got it.
OS X is definitely worth a premium price over Vista though. Hell, XP is worth a premium over Vista.
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05-09-2009, 02:27 AM
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#165 (permalink)
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Dan Enos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes
No, but then again, my laptop wasn't $1300 more than an equivalent Dell laptop when I got it. You come off looking foolish making statements like that when, in fact, my laptop didn't cost $1300 total when I got it.
OS X is definitely worth a premium price over Vista though. Hell, XP is worth a premium over Vista.
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Well Windows 7 is free for a year and is said to be of equal significance to Vista as XP was to 2000. Would you buy a cheaper PC that had an OS that was just as stable as OSX instead of a Mac?
Oh and either you bought your current laptop 2 or 3 years ago or it was used when you bought it. Let's compare apples to apples here 
I just built a Dell Studio XPS 16 for $1199 and then found the comparable MacBook Pro for $2224. Guess what!? That's a $1000 difference! This is fun
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05-09-2009, 02:37 AM
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#166 (permalink)
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Site Administrator
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Location: East Lansing, MI
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Harlon Barnett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locd32
Well Windows 7 is free for a year and is said to be of equal significance to Vista as XP was to 2000. Would you buy a cheaper PC that had an OS that was just as stable as OSX instead of a Mac?
Oh and either you bought your current laptop 2 or 3 years ago or it was used when you bought it. Let's compare apples to apples here |
Well Windows 7 isn't out yet and Vista was said to have been of equal significance to XP as XP was to 2000. That didn't work out so well. By the time Snow Leopard is out, Windows 7 will likely be playing catch up once again based on Microsoft's track record.
Also, it wasn't used, it was a brand new MacBook...and it cost less than $1300. I just speced out the cheapest MacBook and it's less than $1000. It's pretty tough for that to cost $1300 more than an equivalent Dell unless Dell is paying me $300 to use their laptop. With Vista though, I'm not sure that would even be a great deal. This is fun!
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05-09-2009, 02:58 AM
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#167 (permalink)
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Dan Enos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes
Well Windows 7 isn't out yet and Vista was said to have been of equal significance to XP as XP was to 2000. That didn't work out so well. By the time Snow Leopard is out, Windows 7 will likely be playing catch up once again based on Microsoft's track record.
Also, it wasn't used, it was a brand new MacBook...and it cost less than $1300. I just speced out the cheapest MacBook and it's less than $1000. It's pretty tough for that to cost $1300 more than an equivalent Dell unless Dell is paying me $300 to use their laptop. With Vista though, I'm not sure that would even be a great deal. This is fun! |
Windows 7 RC IS out and it's amazing.
The lowest priced MacBook right now is $999 base. In order to compare it with the lowest model Dell you need to upgrade it's HDD to 160gb. That puts the price at $1024. The Dell Inspiron 15 is $634 (and the memory is better on the Dell, 800MHz compared to 667MHz on the Mac). That's a $500 difference, almost double the price for the same specs!!
Obviously when you buy the bottom of the barrel products my $1000 statement doesn't hold true. But you could break it down to a percentage of price between the two (Mac vs PC) for all models and it would be spot on across the board. Trevor, when will you finally break down and admit that you are buying a brand name? I've given you 3 or 4 different examples of how Macs are significantly more expensive when compared to PC's of similar specs (Both desktops and laptops).
You still keep dodging my question btw. Why is that?
EDIT: And btw, when Vista was coming out all you heard was how it was buggy and unstable and not worth upgrading. Never once did I read/hear that it was going to be a big step up from XP. Windows 7 RC is out and lots of people are currently using it. They are saying that the difference is night and day compared to Vista (and Vista has come a VERY long way since it's release).
Last edited by locd32; 05-09-2009 at 03:02 AM.
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05-09-2009, 03:10 AM
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#168 (permalink)
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Site Administrator
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Harlon Barnett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locd32
I've given you 3 or 4 different examples of how Macs are significantly more expensive when compared to PC's of similar specs (Both desktops and laptops).
You still keep dodging my question btw. Why is that? |
You've also said that OS X was a $1300 premium over Vista. I'm still waiting for you to prove that compared to the base model $999 MacBook. Who is dodging?
I'm also still waiting for you to post a PC that will run OS X out of the box without hacking required or compromises.
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05-09-2009, 03:14 AM
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#169 (permalink)
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Tom Izzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes
You've also said that OS X was a $1300 premium over Vista. I'm still waiting for you to prove that compared to the base model $999 MacBook. Who is dodging?
I'm also still waiting for you to post a PC that will run OS X out of the box without hacking required or compromises. |
Why is this relevant??? Windows users have no need to run OS X. We have all the software we need. It's the OS X people that need to run Windows for certain apps. Of course they also need to pay extra for the Windows license &, I assume, the app that runs Windows. Is that also included in the "cost of ownership" or is it all included in the OS X license?
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05-09-2009, 03:18 AM
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#170 (permalink)
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Site Administrator
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Harlon Barnett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locd32
Windows 7 RC IS out and it's amazing.
The lowest priced MacBook right now is $999 base. In order to compare it with the lowest model Dell you need to upgrade it's HDD to 160gb. That puts the price at $1024. The Dell Inspiron 15 is $634 (and the memory is better on the Dell, 800MHz compared to 667MHz on the Mac). That's a $500 difference, almost double the price for the same specs!!
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By the time you add in decent video editing software, a decent photo organization program, a commercial firewall (I don't trust free ones) and a commercial anti-virus program (I don't trust free ones) as well as an extended warranty because in my experience, Dells are much less reliable than Macs, you've pretty much erased that $500. In fact, the Dell will likely cost more at that point. Plus it won't have the residual value a Mac would have and likely will need to be replaced sooner. Paying more for a PC running Vista that has less reliable hardware? No thanks.
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05-09-2009, 03:19 AM
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#171 (permalink)
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Harlon Barnett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heat Miser
Why is this relevant??? Windows users have no need to run OS X. We have all the software we need. It's the OS X people that need to run Windows for certain apps. Of course they also need to pay extra for the Windows license &, I assume, the app that runs Windows. Is that also included in the "cost of ownership" or is it all included in the OS X license?
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There isn't a single app that I "need" Windows for.
It's relevant because we're comparing Apples to Apples. I want a laptop that can run OS X.
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05-09-2009, 03:33 AM
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#172 (permalink)
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Tom Izzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes
There isn't a single app that I "need" Windows for.
It's relevant because we're comparing Apples to Apples. I want a laptop that can run OS X.
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Apples to apples is hardware + OS. You argue that Mac hardware + OS X is worth more than PC hardware + Windows. Windows folks argue that, in addition to the higher price, you can't run [insert Windows software title here] on OS X. Mac users counter with "I can run Windows on my Mac", but omit the "for an additional fee" qualifier. Windows users have no reason to run OS X on a PC.
Does html render better on a Mac? No. Does Photoshop produce better results on a Mac? No. Do spreadsheets sum numbers better on a Mac? No. Do emails contain additional content on a Mac? No.
Apples to apples.
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05-09-2009, 03:40 AM
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#173 (permalink)
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Zeke the Wonderdog
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I'm not reading this entire thread but will throw this out there......
My son is graduating from high school next week. He chose getting a MacBook Pro over having a graduation party.
We have not had an Apple computer system in the house, ever.
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05-09-2009, 03:45 AM
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#174 (permalink)
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Tom Izzo
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I love these threads!
I like windows based PCs because I am cheap and I play games, period. My vista based pc can do everything and more that I need it to do. I actually love vista and most people who don't used it with 512 megs of ram or something stupid like that. Yeah vista sucks under those circumstances.
There is just so much more a vista based machine can do that a Mac can't that I can't see a point in favor of going with Apple. Windows based pc's are cheaper and do more than macs which extends their value advantage that much more over the iPC's.
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05-09-2009, 03:47 AM
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#175 (permalink)
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Site Administrator
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Location: East Lansing, MI
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Harlon Barnett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckshot23
There is just so much more a vista based machine can do that a Mac can't that I can't see a point in favor of going with Apple.
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Actually, it's the other way around since Macs can run Windows but PCs can't run an uncrippled version of OS X.
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