The Joe Dumars Train Wreck

xwing · 07-01-2009, 11:17 PM

So they unloaded billups for iverson and all i heard about was that he was trying to clear cap room to get someone big after the in the summer of 2010. Are you kidding me?? this was it?

gordon is a good scorer but come on he is a ball hog who can't pass and doesn't play defense and doesn't have the floor leadership billups has. When i watched the bulls- celtics series i noticed that gordon was on the bench for much of the fourth quarters in many of those games. what does that tell you?

the kicker is that gordons contract is only a half a million dollars less than billups. I think the nba is becoming a big mans game and you need quality players with size who can score. billups was never the pistons problem. I think the problem had more to do with an aging sheed and a lack of size. players like carmello anthony, king james, paul pierce, dwayne wade and others are all over 6-8 and 6-9 and i don't understand why dumars falls in love with short players like iverson and gordon who can't pass the ball worth a darn.

any thoughts? the bigger mistake IMO was hiring a guy with no coaching experience. p.s. i know dumars justified all of his roster moves and coach firings with the "we are here to win championships" line but does he really thing that is going to happen with these two signings?

Fishtacos · 07-01-2009, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xwing

So they unloaded billups for iverson and all i heard about was that he was trying to clear cap room to get someone big after the in the summer of 2010. Are you kidding me?? this was it?

gordon is a good scorer but come on he is a ball hog who can't pass and doesn't play defense and doesn't have the floor leadership billups has. When i watched the bulls- celtics series i noticed that gordon was on the bench for much of the fourth quarters in many of those games. what does that tell you?

the kicker is that gordons contract is only a half a million dollars less than billups. I think the nba is becoming a big mans game and you need quality players with size who can score. billups was never the pistons problem. I think the problem had more to do with an aging sheed and a lack of size. players like carmello anthony, king james, paul pierce, dwayne wade and others are all over 6-8 and 6-9 and i don't understand why dumars falls in love with short players like iverson and gordon who can't pass the ball worth a darn.

any thoughts? the bigger mistake IMO was hiring a guy with no coaching experience. p.s. i know dumars justified all of his roster moves and coach firings with the "we are here to win championships" line but does he really thing that is going to happen with these two signings?

That he was hurt?

Motown Spartan · 07-01-2009, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xwing

So they unloaded billups for iverson and all i heard about was that he was trying to clear cap room to get someone big after the in the summer of 2010. Are you kidding me?? this was it?

gordon is a good scorer but come on he is a ball hog who can't pass and doesn't play defense and doesn't have the floor leadership billups has. When i watched the bulls- celtics series i noticed that gordon was on the bench for much of the fourth quarters in many of those games. what does that tell you?

the kicker is that gordons contract is only a half a million dollars less than billups. I think the nba is becoming a big mans game and you need quality players with size who can score. billups was never the pistons problem. I think the problem had more to do with an aging sheed and a lack of size. players like carmello anthony, king james, paul pierce, dwayne wade and others are all over 6-8 and 6-9 and i don't understand why dumars falls in love with short players like iverson and gordon who can't pass the ball worth a darn.

any thoughts? the bigger mistake IMO was hiring a guy with no coaching experience. p.s. i know dumars justified all of his roster moves and coach firings with the "we are here to win championships" line but does he really thing that is going to happen with these two signings?

uh....it's still only 2009??

IMrightURwrong · 07-01-2009, 11:32 PM

He's not done. You can't have both Rip and Gordon. We already saw a similar movie and it didn't end so well.

Car Ramrod · 07-01-2009, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xwing

So they unloaded billups for iverson and all i heard about was that he was trying to clear cap room to get someone big after the in the summer of 2010. Are you kidding me?? this was it?

gordon is a good scorer but come on he is a ball hog who can't pass and doesn't play defense and doesn't have the floor leadership billups has. When i watched the bulls- celtics series i noticed that gordon was on the bench for much of the fourth quarters in many of those games. what does that tell you?

the kicker is that gordons contract is only a half a million dollars less than billups. I think the nba is becoming a big mans game and you need quality players with size who can score. billups was never the pistons problem. I think the problem had more to do with an aging sheed and a lack of size. players like carmello anthony, king james, paul pierce, dwayne wade and others are all over 6-8 and 6-9 and i don't understand why dumars falls in love with short players like iverson and gordon who can't pass the ball worth a darn.

any thoughts? the bigger mistake IMO was hiring a guy with no coaching experience. p.s. i know dumars justified all of his roster moves and coach firings with the "we are here to win championships" line but does he really thing that is going to happen with these two signings?

of those 4, 50% of them are under 6-8.

Motown Spartan · 07-01-2009, 11:35 PM

they are still going to have enough room to sign someone to the league max next year which they wouldn't have been able to do if they didn't trade billups. by not signing rasheed and trading billups, they get gordon now, and the money to sign anyone willing to come to detroit next season.

Gnossos · 07-01-2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xwing

So they unloaded billups for iverson and all i heard about was that he was trying to clear cap room to get someone big after the in the summer of 2010. Are you kidding me?? this was it?

gordon is a good scorer but come on he is a ball hog who can't pass and doesn't play defense and doesn't have the floor leadership billups has. When i watched the bulls- celtics series i noticed that gordon was on the bench for much of the fourth quarters in many of those games. what does that tell you?

the kicker is that gordons contract is only a half a million dollars less than billups. I think the nba is becoming a big mans game and you need quality players with size who can score. billups was never the pistons problem. I think the problem had more to do with an aging sheed and a lack of size. players like carmello anthony, king james, paul pierce, dwayne wade and others are all over 6-8 and 6-9 and i don't understand why dumars falls in love with short players like iverson and gordon who can't pass the ball worth a darn.

any thoughts? the bigger mistake IMO was hiring a guy with no coaching experience. p.s. i know dumars justified all of his roster moves and coach firings with the "we are here to win championships" line but does he really thing that is going to happen with these two signings?

Wade over 6-8.

xwing · 07-01-2009, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishtacos

That he was hurt?

nope not hurt at least not hurt enough to play alot of minutes in most of the games. i just checked and he fouled out of the 3 ot game but if my memory serves he was getting subbed out favor of rose, hinrich, and even lindsey hunter in some significant times in fourth quarters.

xwing · 07-01-2009, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnossos

Wade over 6-8.

yeah i see i struck out on that one.

i am shocked he is that short. it seems like he plays alot taller than that.

players like kobe, wade, and michael are an exception to me and not the rule. the pg for the hornets is good but he can pass the rock as well. gordon only averages 3 asssists per game and is pretty much a peremeter player IMO. he gets shut down if his jump shot isn't falling. players with size don't have this problem. wade is a slasher who can take the ball to the rim against amost anyone

Fishtacos · 07-01-2009, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xwing

yeah i see i struck out on that one.

i am shocked he is that short. it seems like he plays alot taller than that.

players like kobe, wade, and michael are an exception to me and not the rule. the pg for the hornets is good but he can pass the rock as well. gordon only averages 3 asssists per game and is pretty much a peremeter player IMO. he gets shut down if his jump shot isn't falling. players with size don't have this problem. wade is a slasher who can take the ball to the rim against amost anyone

I see what you're saying about needing slashers; that was part of the problem with Rip, and the Pistons desperately needed one to start this previous season, as I recall (which was supposed to be aleviated by AI, but we all know how well that worked out.) Still, with Rip available as trade bait, we could definitely pick up somebody who can either A: Slash to the hoop or B: play inside. To call next season, let alone the GM, a trainwreck at this point is a bit ridiculous.

Rashomon · 07-01-2009, 11:53 PM

Chauncey is still playing great, but his days are numbered.

Gordon (hopefully) will only get better.

Motown Spartan · 07-01-2009, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rashomon

Chauncey is still playing great, but his days are numbered.

Gordon (hopefully) will only get better.

chauncey was twice as good for the nuggets as he was playing for the pistons.

xwing · 07-01-2009, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motwnsprtn

chauncey was twice as good for the nuggets as he was playing for the pistons.

the nuggets also had anthony who he could play off of. billups demise was greatly exagerated. he was playing hurt in the celtic series the year before and looked terrible. he is a winner IMO.

he might not win a championship again but his teams always play at a high level. 7 straight conference appearances is no joke.

xwing · 07-02-2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rashomon

Chauncey is still playing great, but his days are numbered.

Gordon (hopefully) will only get better.

isn't everyones? gordon is a good scorer but he hasn't won anything or led his team anywhere. rose has more leadership potential IMO which is why they were more than willing to let him go.

Motown Spartan · 07-02-2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xwing

the nuggets also had anthony who he could play off of. billups demise was greatly exagerated. he was playing hurt in the celtic series the year before and looked terrible. he is a winner IMO.

he might not win a championship again but his teams always play at a high level. 7 straight conference appearances is no joke.

don't get me wrong, i love billups, but his best days as a piston were behind him.

Holden Hall Hustler! · 07-02-2009, 12:06 AM

If you wanna wait around to 2010 and save our pennies for Lebron, Wade, Bosh, and then let them laugh in Joe D's face at the thought of coming to Detroit..Then by all means..Your in LA LA land if you think your gunna land one of the big guns. Joe D acted appropriately and got the 2 best free agents avail that fit our needs. More trades to come. Don't expect Rip to still be around.

Motown Spartan · 07-02-2009, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holden Hall Hustler!

If you wanna wait around to 2010 and save our pennies for Lebron, Wade, Bosh, and then let them laugh in Joe D's face at the thought of coming to Detroit..Then by all means..Your in LA LA land if you think your gunna land one of the big guns. Joe D acted appropriately and got the 2 best free agents avail that fit our needs. More trades to come. Don't expect Rip to still be around.

i agree with you on this, BUT.....if you add avery johnson as head coach, you might still be able to land a bosh

Keepfightingforit · 07-02-2009, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xwing

isn't everyones? gordon is a good scorer but he hasn't won anything or led his team anywhere. rose has more leadership potential IMO which is why they were more than willing to let him go.

Neither had Rip, Chauncey, Tay, Ben, Sheed or Corliss. But Gordon does have some college hardware, like Rip and Corliss.

xwing · 07-02-2009, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holden Hall Hustler!

If you wanna wait around to 2010 and save our pennies for Lebron, Wade, Bosh, and then let them laugh in Joe D's face at the thought of coming to Detroit..Then by all means..Your in LA LA land if you think your gunna land one of the big guns. Joe D acted appropriately and got the 2 best free agents avail that fit our needs. More trades to come. Don't expect Rip to still be around.

i guess my main point was that the whole argument that he got rid of billups to clear cap space for 2010 just got blown up because they were about the same cost. IMO billups is someone you can build around because of his leadership, defense, passing, and championship experience. i would much rather have him than gordon. i was all for blowing up the pistons team i just think getting rid of him was a huge mistake. get rid of price or hamilton fine i just think gordon is a downgrade compaired to billups.

hIZZOner · 07-02-2009, 12:28 AM

the only way this is a trainwreck is if he tries to play Rip Gordon and Stuckey...he has to move Rip, if he does not then it will become a trainwreck

4th and Inches · 07-03-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rashomon

Chauncey is still playing great, but his days are numbered.

Gordon (hopefully) will only get better.

Speaking as a Bulls fan who has watched Gordon for years, I think he has pretty much hit his ceiling, i.e. what you've seen from him is exactly what you'll be getting. He's not going to play much defense, he's never going to provide much rebounding, but when he's on fire he will win you some games all by himself.

To me, though, this was a peculiar pickup by the Pistons. Ben Gordon is fairly one-dimensional, he's an elite shooter that can light it up but that's about it. He would be a great player for a team that just needs that one final piece, because he can win you some games all by himself. The Pistons, however, are clearly a work in progress and don't really have an identity right now. I don't think that Gordon is necessarily a good fit in this situation, but I wish him the best of luck

SpartanInNH · 07-03-2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motwnsprtn

they are still going to have enough room to sign someone to the league max next year which they wouldn't have been able to do if they didn't trade billups. by not signing rasheed and trading billups, they get gordon now, and the money to sign anyone willing to come to detroit next season.

This.

WBill@ · 07-03-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xwing

When i watched the bulls- celtics series i noticed that gordon was on the bench for much of the fourth quarters in many of those games. what does that tell you?

You don't watch close enough or that he was in foul trouble.

Gordon's minutes and points against Boston

Game One 46-20
Game Two 43-42
Game Three 36-15
Game Four 49-22
Game Five 50-26
Game Six 31-12 (Fouled Out)
Game Seven 46-33

JohnSpringer · 07-03-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WBill@

You don't watch close enough or that he was in foul trouble.

Gordon's minutes and points against Boston

Game One 46-20
Game Two 43-42
Game Three 36-15
Game Four 49-22
Game Five 50-26
Game Six 31-12 (Fouled Out)
Game Seven 46-33

He was also hurt a bit.

Ben Gordon's hamstring hurt

BobbySkeebo · 07-03-2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xwing

yeah i see i struck out on that one.

i am shocked he is that short. it seems like he plays alot taller than that.

players like kobe, wade, and michael are an exception to me and not the rule. the pg for the hornets is good but he can pass the rock as well. gordon only averages 3 asssists per game and is pretty much a peremeter player IMO. he gets shut down if his jump shot isn't falling. players with size don't have this problem. wade is a slasher who can take the ball to the rim against amost anyone

Dwyane Wade is 6'4.75" with shoes on according to his draft combine measurements, and his wingspan is 6'11", so he probably plays a lot taller with that wingspan and his jumping ability.