tOfficial General Soccer Thread (2009-2010) season)

ctspartan · 07-24-2009, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpartanGop

Well, Sunday should be interesting ...

If the US "C" team can beat Mexico for the championship, it will be quite an achievement.

And as I type this ...

How do you let that happen???

Extra time here we come ...

Great flick on from Saborio. Always liked him, he was money on championship manager for me.

For you guys that compare rosters, help us unread guys out. I was under the impression that Costa Rica and Honduras were taking the Copa Oro seriously and would bring squads with a fair number of their top players, and that Mexico would be going youth, but many of her best players were in that group anyway.

How good are these Costa Rica and Honduras teams. Was I hoodwinked?

baltosparty · 07-24-2009, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctspartan

Is the roster that much different? I read in at least one column that Honduras was bringing a very competitive team. Didn't actually site down and compare rosters, but if you're right, that would be the total flaw in my argument. It would certainly explain why our subs look like champs all of a sudden. How many players are the same on this Honduras vs the first Honduras?

Any Honduras experts out there?

Quick look at Honduras wikipedia page confirms what other posters have said. Only four guys on their GC squad had double digit caps before the tournament. Only Costly and Martinez had scored more than two goals for the national team.

At the beginning of the tournament the consensus seemed to be that the only one of the Concacaf "powers" that brought something close to a full squad was Costa Rica. They were a trendy pick to win by several soccer pundits as a result.

RyanNoel · 07-24-2009, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctspartan

My comments were a bit exaggerated to emphasize that after the five guys I mentioned, there are interchangeable parts sitting on the bench, which the Honduras game proved. Unless this is a quite different Honduras than we faced in WC qualifying, which outplayed our "A" team, our "C" team certainly looked superior.
This particular Honduras team was mostly Honduran and Central American based, while the WCQ squad had most of their European players in.

As for this team against the "A" team? The "A team would get crushed badly. Ching and Arnaud would stand no chance of scoring against the "A" backline, and the midfield of Beckerman and Pause is abysmal when compared any 2 of Bradley, Feilhaber, Edu, and Clark (not to mention Jermaine Jones when he's eligible). I also don't think any of the defenders on the "C" squad could contain Charlie, Jozy, or Landon in any shape or form.

This is an absurd thing to suggest.

Michael Bradley has little footspeed, doesn't have Feilhaber's instincts or field vision, and misses a surprising number of tackles. His marking is suspect and is responsible for so many enemy attacks (quick opponents - he does better against slow opponents) going through our midfield like jello. He's over-rated. Sorry to seriously disagree. You and I can break down the tapes and I'll point his flaws out. I haven't been happy with the USMNT midfield since John O'Brien got injured and Claudio Reyna was serviceable.
Wow, this is the first person I've seen that doesn't either like Bradley or think he plays due to nepotism.
Frankly, I'm not sure what you're seeing that leads you to think Bradley doesn't have the vision or feel for the game that Feilhaber does. I think Feilhaber is more natural on the ball (probably due to his Brazilian upbringing), but Bradley has a fantastic feel for the game and typically has great vision and range on his passing. He's not as polished on the passes as Feilhaber is, but he's fairly consistent with his quality.
I'm sure he missed some tackles, but I think he's been hurt in large part by being the only consistent piece in the midfield next to a rotating stable of players - Feilhaber, Edu, Clark, Mastroeni, Kljestan, etc.
Also, I think he gets a bit of a tough job because his dad prefers this over-defensive "empty bucket" concept, where Bradley's offensive strengths are rarely used. He's often left to cover the mistakes of his midfield partner (I don't think enough people realize how much ground he covered in covering for Clark's laundry list of errors).
I understand that you might think he's a bit overrated, but I surely don't see the flaws you point out, especially not on a consistent basis.

Spector was great, but he's very slow and makes up for it with good positioning. Against quicker guys, he's a bit exposed (I have a long-standing prejudice in favor of fast outside backs so we don't have to pack 22 guys in the box like we did in the Confed Cup

)
We'll differ a bit here, namely because I believe in talent over speed at the back. I also don't think he's nearly as slow as you're making him out to be. In fact, I thought Spector was particularly impressive in his outings against Brazil in shutting down quite a few dribbling attacks from Kaka and Robinho. He's got a great sense for positioning and timing, moreso than any other defender in the US pool. Personally, I think he's easily the most talented defender we have.

Altidore had a horrible Confed Cup; he hasn't added a thing to his repertoire in the past year. If not for the critical goal, he would have rated a 3.5 in my book. Sure, he lends danger and physical presence, and I've been a big booster of his, but his first touch was absolutely terrible in the Cup, and contributed no constructive service at all.
I think what went unnoticed with Altidore was that he typically drew both centerbacks to him against every team. He got physically demolished by Lucio, Luisao, and Juan in the Brazil games specifically. But, because he was strong enough to stay on his feet, they constantly tracked him and that allowed for Davies and Donovan to have tons of space to work with in the final 3 games. I think his technical skills were lacking, and nobody should be arguing otherwise, but I think he was better than people were giving him credit for (partly due to absurd expectations for him).

DeMerit was terrific, I'll give you that one.

I guess we'll see who's right in the final match. If you're right, our B/C team should get squashed 2-0. If I'm right, we should win handily. I could be wrong, since I'm basing it on the Honduras/Panama yardstick, which might not be a useful measure.

arfabe16 · 07-24-2009, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctspartan

that Mexico would be going youth, but many of her best players were in that group anyway.

There is only one Mexican starter in this group (Franco), and he's not even starting.

Some may have earned starting jobs (Dos Santos and Ochoa), but other than them there isn't much to write home about.

Costa Rica is the only one of the top 4 teams that brought something close to their A team.

And as I say that, the Costa Rican keeper makes another great save.

arfabe16 · 07-24-2009, 12:09 AM

Vela misses on an empty net after yet another great play by Dos Santos.

This has to be frustrating for Giovani.

speekeasy8 · 07-24-2009, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctspartan

How good are these Costa Rica and Honduras teams. Was I hoodwinked?

I'm not sure, but here is the starting 11 for Honduras when we played them in the Hex last month:

[18] Noel VALLADARES (GK)
[2] Osman CHAVEZ
[3] Maynor FIGUEROA
[4] Hendry THOMAS
[6] Mario BEATA
[7] Amado GUEVARA
[8] Wilson PALACIOS
[9] Carlos PAVON
[10] Ramon NUNEZ
[13] Carlos COSTLY
[14] Mauricio SABILLON

...and here is the Honduras starting 11 from tonight:

22 - D. Escober (GK)
5 - E. Norales
11 - M. Acevedo
2 - O. Chávez
16 - N. Medina
14 - C. Palacios
18 - M. Valladares
13 - C. Costly
15 - W. Martínez
9 - C. Mejía
10 - M. Chávez

Only Chavez (2) and Costly (13) started both games... so I think it's safe to say that was, at best, Honduras' "B" squad.

SpartanGop · 07-24-2009, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arfabe16

Vela misses on an empty net after yet another great play by Dos Santos.

This has to be frustrating for Giovani.

Arfabe, why is Jose Antonio Castro's nickname el gringo?

arfabe16 · 07-24-2009, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpartanGop

Arfabe, why is Jose Antonio Castro's nickname el gringo?

No idea, but he effin sucks.

spartans428 · 07-24-2009, 12:32 AM

Why do Mexican fans always throw garbage on the field they are so classless. In the Club America Milan game they did, this game the game vs Panama. It is such a joke.

arfabe16 · 07-24-2009, 12:35 AM

We're going to a shootout.

Costa Rica is the more experienced team, and Mexico is the more talented team.

I think experience usually beats talent in these situations

... plus Mexico is historically bad at shootouts.

baltosparty · 07-24-2009, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arfabe16

We're going to a shootout.

Costa Rica is the more experienced team, and Mexico is the more talented team.

I think experience usually beats talent in these situations

... plus Mexico is historically bad at shootouts.

At least no more Miguel Sabah from the spot

SpartanGop · 07-24-2009, 12:41 AM

uno - uno

SpartanGop · 07-24-2009, 12:44 AM

Ochoa!

Mexico in the driver's seat ...

arfabe16 · 07-24-2009, 12:46 AM

Mexico wins a shootout

SpartanGop · 07-24-2009, 12:47 AM

Once again, El Tri and the Yanks in the Gold Cup final.

Too bad for los ticos, they were taking this competition very seriously.

Cym Jim · 07-24-2009, 12:49 AM

Dear god, make it stop.

baltosparty · 07-24-2009, 12:49 AM

USA-Mexico at 2pm Sunday.

Finally, the answer to the question on everyone on the continents mind! Who has the better C team?!?! We shall see...

arfabe16 · 07-24-2009, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baltosparty

USA-Mexico at 2pm Sunday.

Finally, the answer to the question on everyone on the continent's mind! Who has the better C team?!?! We shall see...

This HAS to be the most unappealing USA v. Mexico match in the last 10 years. And that's including friendlies.

baltosparty · 07-24-2009, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arfabe16

This HAS to be the most unappealing USA v. Mexico match in the last 10 years. And that's including friendlies.

At least we get a great one next month (if the U.S. shows up to play in Mexico City). Also, its a bit more appealing for you guys. You get to watch Dos Santos and Vela at least. Our superstar 20 year-old had to go overseas to begin his quest to see as few first-team minutes as possible a couple weeks early

.

arfabe16 · 07-24-2009, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baltosparty

At least we get a great one next month (if the U.S. shows up to play in Mexico City). Also, its a bit more appealing for you guys. You get to watch Dos Santos and Vela at least. Our superstar 20 year-old had to go overseas to begin his quest to see as few first-team minutes as possible a couple weeks early

.

Calling Vela, Dos Santos, and Adu superstars is a bit of a stretch. None of them have ever done anything outside of the youth levels.

I do think both Vela and Dos Santos are better than Adu though. Not that that's saying much.

baltosparty · 07-24-2009, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arfabe16

Calling Vela, Dos Santos, and Adu superstars is a bit of a stretch. None of them have ever done anything outside of the youth levels.

I do think both Vela and Dos Santos are better than Adu though. Not that that's saying much.

I definitely wasn't being completely serious...especially about Fredinho Adu.

I was gonna type "starlets" instead, but I still find that bit of football jargon a little too strange.

Deron5 · 07-24-2009, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arfabe16

Calling Vela, Dos Santos, and Adu superstars is a bit of a stretch. None of them have ever done anything outside of the youth levels.

I do think both Vela and Dos Santos are better than Adu though. Not that that's saying much.

And none of them will live up to the hype

arfabe16 · 07-24-2009, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deron5

And none of them will live up to the hype

Vela showed some nice things in the few chances he got to play with Arsenal. He did tear the Real Madrid defense a new one... I think he has a good career ahead of him.

Deron5 · 07-24-2009, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arfabe16

Vela showed some nice things in the few chances he got to play with Arsenal. He did tear the Real Madrid defense a new one... I think he has a good career ahead of him.

I'd imagine we will see both American and Mexican players of the same age that will have better careers than that group.

arfabe16 · 07-24-2009, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deron5

I'd imagine we will see both American and Mexican players of the same age that will have better careers than that group.

Other than Marquez and Onyewu, who are both defenders, Vela is the player on the most high-profile team out of anyone from Mexico and the US. So he has that going for him, and it seems like Arsenal is actually looking to play him more.