Why is it that....

[Gary in Bradenton]

Originally Posted by chitownsparty06

What did I say that was wrong? That the program has regressed in year 3? That we are 4-5? That Dantonio hasn't beat a top 25 team outside of a TERRIBLE UofM team?

I would rather have Brian Kelly come in, take us to the Rose Bowl and leave, then have MD be a 6-6/7-5 coach with an OCCASIONAL 9 win season. BK has taken Dantonio's former program to 2 STRAIGHT BCS games and you want to say he isn't a better coach than Dantonio? Really... please explain how MD is a better coach?

And if MD is good at getting programs off the mat, did it ever occur to you thats about all he can do is turn a program from terrible to mediocre? Maybe he just doesn't have it in him to take that next step... he hasn't proven it thus far!

I guess I just have a huge problem with all you Dantonio apologists who refuse to question MD? He isn't Izzo, he hasn't earned it. Hasn't even come close... 4-5 in Year 3 is unacceptable. Plain and simple...

You do realize that the Big East flat out sucks overall??? How much better do you think our record would have been with Kelly in 07? I'm guessing it would have been the same, possibly 1 game better. How much better do you think the record would have been last year? Probably the same thing as 07, same record possibly 1 game better. Yes, there have been struggles this season but there are areas of the team that have major issues (OL, DL and DB). This team lacks quality 4th and 5th year players and is even limited in the number of quality 3rd year players. MD won the last 2 years with some upper classmen who by and large were the only decent holdovers from the **** show that was JLS. The last 2 years of JLS recruiting classes were very much devoid of talent and impact players and the transition recruiting class was predictably weak.

So would you rather have MD redshirt abotu 18-20 guys out of a very talented class this year and set this program up for what could be many years in a row of 9+ win seasons with quality depth and talent or would you rather have Kelly, who would have similar talent and would burn the redshirts just like Saban did to win earlier so he can cash his ticket out, go somewhere else and leave us in the same old **** show that we had after Saban left. **** that noise, as much as this season has sucked I would much rather set this program up for long term future success than set us up to go right back into the yearly 4-8/5-7 realm after our coach bolts for greener pastures after 1 or possibly 2 years fo success.

[Gary in Bradenton]

Originally Posted by Dr. Tailgate

Mike going off...

Yippy skippy, anything for ratings.

[ISparticus]

Originally Posted by Sportsinferno

if a fan is disappointed in their teams performance, tiredof losing, lost interest etc....and wont be attending this weekends game they need to "turn in their Spartan card"...or they are "bandwagon"?

As Spartans we have been the most loyal fanbase in the country with respect to return on investment. We continue to burn our hands on the stove week after week expecting differant results only to see the same movie.

Will I be there? Yes, if only to setup our massive tailgate and see the people who are important to me.

But for those who wont go, refuse to go, have better things to do, why are they less of a Spartan? If we are truly honest with ourselves the product this season has been dog****. Last nights game was simply the crowning jewel on this trainwreck. I can see why people with less obligation, less time, less interest will just say "no thanks" this weekend and spend time at home, with family, etc.

But why do people here just lob that phrase around so often? I really think all the disappointment of the last 40 years has warped our sense of loyalty. at some point people just lose interest when they keep getting their hopes dashed.

No, because it happens every year: We're under/overrated someone is pissed because of the way we lost/won and call for the coaches/assistant coaches to get fired.



I can think of a few sportscasters that change their minds every week as well.

[MichState04]

Originally Posted by Gary in Bradenton

Yippy skippy, anything for ratings.

Yeah because no one on this board (who don't care about ratings) went off after the game.

[General Grant]

Originally Posted by SpartyHardy

I for one can't. He will either learn from this or he won't. If he doesn't...and he doesn't eventually get MSU to be a consistently winning program, he will eventually be gone too. But I'm not ready to throw the guy under the bus right now and throw away what he has already accomplished in his first two years to hire someone like a Brian Kelly who would come in and maybe have one really good season and springboard that to another job that he covets more. This is not what MSU football needs long term. Can you understand that?

Chitown is a reflection of what we are as a society today. We are very impatient because what is provided to us as consumers and socially:facebook (you can find out about someone in a couple of minutes), instant messaging, texting,online shopping. We are people of quick satisfaction. When it takes longer than what we (selfishly) want we go ape**** and declare how horrible everything is. In this case it is with a coach that had us competing for a big ten championship in his second year. For some reason that was not good enough for Chitown or others who want it done now and somehow quickly forget what we had before. It is why some of us are leaders and some are not.

I am absolutely sure as well that people were after Izzo by the second or third years. If they conveniently forget that, than they are blatant hypocrites.

[MichState04]

Originally Posted by chitownsparty06

Actually, BK went to UC and took them to 2 straight BCS games, but who's counting...

what if he goes 6-6 this year (which is what I'm praying for b/c we need the extra bowl practice) and 5-7 next year? Do you give him year 5?

When you have a coach who puts in a QB who hasn't played in weeks after your STARTING QB JUST THREW A TOUCHDOWN then you have lost me... couple that with a 4-5 record and you need to be fired... please defend that decision... please, somebody...

For the last time....I have had to explain this to the Kelly slurpers a million times...Cincy was on the way up when Kelly arrived. MSU was absolutely not.

If you want to see what Kelly did at a school that needed rebuilding:
4-7
6-5
9-4

We overachieved last season, period.

[General Grant]

[QUOTE=chitownsparty06;6279630]What did I say that was wrong? That the program has regressed in year 3? That we are 4-5? That Dantonio hasn't beat a top 25 team outside of a TERRIBLE UofM team?

I would rather have Brian Kelly come in, take us to the Rose Bowl and leave, then have MD be a 6-6/7-5 coach with an OCCASIONAL 9 win season. BK has taken Dantonio's former program to 2 STRAIGHT BCS games and you want to say he isn't a better coach than Dantonio? Really... please explain how MD is a better coach?

And if MD is good at getting programs off the mat, did it ever occur to you thats about all he can do is turn a program from terrible to mediocre? Maybe he just doesn't have it in him to take that next step... he hasn't proven it thus far!

I guess I just have a huge problem with all you Dantonio apologists who refuse to question MD? He isn't Izzo, he hasn't earned it. Hasn't even come close... 4-5 in Year 3 is unacceptable. Plain and simple...[/QUOTE]

I can think of several thousand posts that come to mind criticizing Izzo the last few years that have been posted on this board. This is untrue.

[kgbmsu]

Originally Posted by General Grant

Chitown is a reflection of what we are as a society today. We are very impatient because what is provided to us as consumers and socially:facebook (you can find out about someone in a couple of minutes), instant messaging, texting,online shopping. We are people of quick satisfaction. When it takes longer than what we (selfishly) want we go ape**** and declare how horrible everything is. In this case it is with a coach that had us competing for a big ten championship in his second year. For some reason that was not good enough for Chitown or others who want it done now and somehow quickly forget what we had before. It is why some of us are leaders and some are not.

I am absolutely sure as well that people were after Izzo by the second or third years. If they conveniently forget that, than they are blatant hypocrites.

FYI Izzo won the Big Ten in his 3rd year and was voted National coach of the year.

[spartan80]

Originally Posted by chitownsparty06

Actually, BK went to UC and took them to 2 straight BCS games, but who's counting...

what if he goes 6-6 this year (which is what I'm praying for b/c we need the extra bowl practice) and 5-7 next year? Do you give him year 5?

When you have a coach who puts in a QB who hasn't played in weeks after your STARTING QB JUST THREW A TOUCHDOWN then you have lost me... couple that with a 4-5 record and you need to be fired... please defend that decision... please, somebody...

BK took over a team that had gone bowling 2 of the previous 3 years, stocked with talent that left him. How do you manage to leave that part out?

I agree with you on the QB change, but don't really think that lost MSU the game.

MSU is in a seam year, talent-wise. has not brought in JUCO's to quick fix the line recruiting JLS did, and surprise 3rd year in we're seeing the result. Now once Foreman, Worthy, Barrent, Treadwell, Conway and some of 's other lineman are the majority of the lines, MSU will get a lot better. Consistent pressure will make the secondary look better, as will Johnny Adams and some of secondary recruits.

Don't jump ship amigo, will get it done.

[spartan80]

Originally Posted by kgbmsu

FYI Izzo won the Big Ten in his 3rd year and was voted National coach of the year.

FYI, hoops teams are much smaller than football teams, so it takes more classes to put together all the required players.

[General Grant]

Originally Posted by kgbmsu

FYI Izzo won the Big Ten in his 3rd year and was voted National coach of the year.

You can get a couple of key players in basketball (Cleaves, Smith, etc..) and turn things around quicker. Football takes a little more time.

Okay. I was there as a football recruit in 97 at a basketball game and it was a tough loss for us. People were booing and left early. I can remember countless people saying how they missed Jud. Please don't tell me that didn't happen. Because it did. Coach Izzo went on record this year saying the same thing.


By the way, I can remember him apologizing to us as a group because of the bad performance. I was shocked with that type of humility. To me, he is the epitome of class. In a lot of ways Coach Dantonio reminds me of Izzo. That is why I am such a defender of his. Also, he was a coach there while I was there and saw how good of one he is. What stands out about him the most is that we had a safety, you all will remember him (Richard Newsome) who was not going to class and tutors. Coach Dantonio told him that he did not have the privilege to practice with the team that day and sent him back to the locker room. Newsome flies off the handle and refuses. Coach D stood there and glared at him until he left the field. He did not budge. The look he gave Newsome was something else.

[SpartyHardy]

Originally Posted by General Grant

You can get a couple of key players in basketball (Cleaves, Smith, etc..) and turn things around quicker. Football takes a little more time.

Okay. I was there as a football recruit in 97 at a basketball game and it was a tough loss for us. People were booing and left early. I can remember countless people saying how they missed Jud. Please don't tell me that didn't happen. Because it did. Coach Izzo went on record this year saying the same thing.


By the way, I can remember him apologizing to us as a group because of the bad performance. I was shocked with that type of humility. To me, he is the epitome of class. In a lot of ways Coach Dantonio reminds me of Izzo. That is why I am such a defender of his. Also, he was a coach there while I was there and saw how good of one he is. What stands out about him the most is that we had a safety, you all will remember him (Richard Newsome) who was not going to class and tutors. Coach Dantonio told him that he did not have the privilege to practice with the team that day and sent him back to the locker room. Newsome flies off the handle and refuses. Coach D stood there and glared at him until he left the field. He did not budge. The look he gave Newsome was something else.

I think at some point in all of this that you either have to believe in to ultimately get the job done at MSU or you don't. This program is so much better even at this point in time with a 4-5 record than it was at anytime under BW or JLS that it isn't even debatable, IMO.

I'm not going to make any grandiose predictions that will ultimately make MSU a program like U$C, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma or whoever you want to throw out there as a perennial Top Ten program. Maybe he will...but maybe he won't. But one thing I can say from following MSU football since the late 1950's is that it has never been this stable, this cohesive with respect to the athletic department and the administration being hand-in-hand and on the same page...since the days of Duffy, Biggie, and John Hannah. Trust the old fart here on that one.

[General Grant]

Originally Posted by SpartyHardy

I think at some point in all of this that you either have to believe in to ultimately get the job done at MSU or you don't. This program is so much better even at this point in time with a 4-5 record than it was at anytime under BW or JLS that it isn't even debatable, IMO.

I'm not going to make any grandiose predictions that will ultimately make MSU a program like U$C, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma or whoever you want to throw out there as a perennial Top Ten program. Maybe he will...but maybe he won't. But one thing I can say from following MSU football since the late 1950's is that it has never been this stable, this cohesive with respect to the athletic department and the administration being hand-in-hand and on the same page...since the days of Duffy, Biggie, and John Hannah. Trust the old fart here on that one.

100% agree. I believe he will get it done. It seems like the factions that we have all known over the years have been put to sleep.

[Voodoo76]

Originally Posted by SpartyHardy

I think at some point in all of this that you either have to believe in to ultimately get the job done at MSU or you don't. This program is so much better even at this point in time with a 4-5 record than it was at anytime under BW or JLS that it isn't even debatable, IMO.

I'm not going to make any grandiose predictions that will ultimately make MSU a program like U$C, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma or whoever you want to throw out there as a perennial Top Ten program. Maybe he will...but maybe he won't. But one thing I can say from following MSU football since the late 1950's is that it has never been this stable, this cohesive with respect to the athletic department and the administration being hand-in-hand and on the same page...since the days of Duffy, Biggie, and John Hannah. Trust the old fart here on that one.

Agree! Time will tell on coach D, and is deserved in my opinion. I would rather have and his staff learn and grow on the job, while staying consistent and totally committed to MSU, than try for the next quick fix. Think of all the struggles, and the learning curve Sabin went thru here. Getting his feet wet as a big time D1 head coach. All of that hardship, all of those lessons learned, did nothing to further MSU Football. But it sure did help some other programs.

So I guess it's talent evaluation time, do you think Coach D and staff can step it up or not? Do you think there is potential for him and his staff to be a better coaches than todays record shows?

Funny thing is to listen to a lot of the "fans" on this site you would think MSU already has been USC or a Texas these last 40 years and now we have fallen on hard times.

[DantonIzzo]

Originally Posted by kgbmsu

FYI Izzo won the Big Ten in his 3rd year and was voted National coach of the year.

With a roster of 13 vs. a roster of 85.

[DantonIzzo]

GG had some great posts in this thread.

[DantonIzzo]

Originally Posted by Babies Need Tickets

How much does it say that former players and coaches are totally behind ?

I love that people are speaking out while the lunatics continue to .

It just says they're normal like the vast majority of the fanbase.

The vocal minority can all they want. isn't going anywhere. Narduzzi isn't going anywhere. Treadwell isn't going anywhere. Deal with it.

[kgbmsu]

Originally Posted by DantonIzzo

It just says they're normal like the vast majority of the fanbase.

The vocal minority can all they want. isn't going anywhere. Narduzzi isn't going anywhere. Treadwell isn't going anywhere. Deal with it.

What about Barnett??

[DantonIzzo]

Originally Posted by kgbmsu

What about Barnett??

I doubt it. The DBs are 's bread and butter, which means he'll take a lot of the blame for their performance.

Let's face it: I don't care which coach you have, if you're relying on guys like Ware, Hyde and Fortener in your secondary, you aren't going to be very good defensively. They simply aren't Big Ten-caliber starters.

[General Grant]

Originally Posted by DantonIzzo

GG had some great posts in this thread.

thanks. I love what Mike does but I think in this instance he is overreacting. His ND rant was justified. This one was not (radio today or yesterday i guess).

[DantonIzzo]

Originally Posted by General Grant

thanks. I love what Mike does but I think in this instance he is overreacting. His ND rant was justified. This one was not (radio today or yesterday i guess).

Neither was his premature tantrum re: the basketball program last year.

I'm not at all happy with MSU being 4-5 right now, but when you're dealing with rebuilding a football program -- which takes a lot of redshirting, putting upperclass talent on the field, etc. -- instant success just doesn't happen. This season, in my book, is going more the way I thought last year would (when I predicted 6-6 and instead we caught some breaks and finished 9-3). But again, I don't know how you can skim MSU's '09 and '10 recruiting classes and not look forward to what's ahead.

The bumps were/are inevitable. Such is the life of a perpetual Big Ten also-ran trying to turn a corner and get things back on track, which no coach has been able to do here since the 1960's.

[612 Virginia]

I never attend games in November, it is more important to me to go hunting with my family. It is simple, I put a participation sport ahead of being a spectator. It is pretty simple, and so far I haven't had a lot of trouble with "the Spartan Card Posse". Of course, I'm a gun owner, and those guys are pussys.

[TorontoSpartan87]

Originally Posted by Sportsinferno

if a fan is disappointed in their teams performance, tiredof losing, lost interest etc....and wont be attending this weekends game they need to "turn in their Spartan card"...or they are "bandwagon"?

As Spartans we have been the most loyal fanbase in the country with respect to return on investment. We continue to burn our hands on the stove week after week expecting differant results only to see the same movie.

Will I be there? Yes, if only to setup our massive tailgate and see the people who are important to me.

But for those who wont go, refuse to go, have better things to do, why are they less of a Spartan? If we are truly honest with ourselves the product this season has been dog****. Last nights game was simply the crowning jewel on this trainwreck. I can see why people with less obligation, less time, less interest will just say "no thanks" this weekend and spend time at home, with family, etc.

But why do people here just lob that phrase around so often? I really think all the disappointment of the last 40 years has warped our sense of loyalty. at some point people just lose interest when they keep getting their hopes dashed.

You're not much of a Spartan if you even have to ask that question.

[Mr. Tanfan]

From what I am reading on here, the O line is not going to be any better if not worse next year. So, if that is the case, it looks like another year of mediocre football if not worse awaits next season. MSU football, it is what it is. You get all excited and then the reality of the program's consistent crappyness returns regardless of who is coaching it. Perceptions of a program on the rise have now fallen back to the SOS, with questionable coaching decisions and losing in the final quarter returning to be the norm.

MD refuses to go the JUCO route to win. He needs decent players in the trenches now to win. He won't do it. So, we will continue to lose. So be it. 6 and 6 and 7 and 5 is what we will be from now on out. I see he has his sites set on a number of three star players from Ohio that OSU dosen't want, that sure is going to change the culture of crappyness.

Just telling it like it is blowers. You don't like it, too gdamn bad.

[Mr. Tanfan]

Originally Posted by TorontoSpartan87

You're not much of a Spartan if you even have to ask that question.

I'll make sure he turns in his Spartan card.