WTF is with Vegans?

[Drugs Delaney]

Originally Posted by Final Countdown

My point is that humans aren't fit for consuming any amount of meat, as evident in our key digestive differences when compared to animals which eat meat.

Are you a ri-****??

[scott91575]

Originally Posted by Final Countdown

I honestly don't know how they do it. I suppose if the Chinese can breathe that polluted air everyday, they can handle anything. I'm really not sure what the answer is... but I know that it is reasonably accepted that eating raw or undercooked animal flesh increases the risk of becoming ill.

The answer is look to our closest relative, the chimpanzee (you are looking way too far out in the animal world). Chimpanzees exhibit very similar digestive characteristics, and in the wild they often eat other animals. They also eat vegetation, fruits, etc. They are a true omnivore even though they have many characteristics similar to many herbivores.

It is in our nature to eat both plants and meat. Our bodies have proven to be able to digest both for nourishment. Both meat and vegetation can have negative effects on our bodies, but overall both are acceptable means for sustenance. Although a case could be made plants should be the larger portion of out diet, and for the majority that is true.

BTW...that raw meat thing is due to packaging and bacteria growth as I mentioned before (that is the reason for the warnings). Raw meat, free of bacteria, is perfectly fine. If you had your own animals, slaughtered them, and ate them raw right away you would be fine. It's the transit time, storage, etc. that allows bad bacteria to grow. As I also mentioned before, fruits and vegetables can have the same issues.

[Cym Jim]

WTF is with people who do different stuff to me? Pfff. ****ing idiots.

[Drugs Delaney]

Originally Posted by Cym Jim

WTF is with people who do different stuff to me? Pfff. ****ing idiots.

This guy gets it.

[Final Countdown]

Originally Posted by scott91575

The answer is look to our closest relative, the chimpanzee (you are looking way too far out in the animal world). Chimpanzees exhibit very similar digestive characteristics, and in the wild they often eat other animals. They also eat vegetation, fruits, etc. They are a true omnivore even though they have many characteristics similar to many herbivores.

It is in our nature to eat both plants and meat. Our bodies have proven to be able to digest both for nourishment. Both meat and vegetation can have negative effects on our bodies, but overall both are acceptable means for sustenance. Although a case could be made plants should be the larger portion of out diet, and for the majority that is true.

BTW...that raw meat thing is due to packaging and bacteria growth as I mentioned before (that is the reason for the warnings). Raw meat, free of bacteria, is perfectly fine. If you had your own animals, slaughtered them, and ate them raw right away you would be fine. It's the transit time, storage, etc. that allows bad bacteria to grow. As I also mentioned before, fruits and vegetables can have the same issues.

Chimps are primarily herbivores, though they do eat meat on some occasions. That differs greatly from the idea that "if humans don't eat meat every day, their brains will rot and their muscles will die!"

[MSURed]

Originally Posted by AvgMSUJoe

I think if you were starving to death your instincts would come back to you...

There is a reason people eat bugs and pigs feet and other nastiness... cause they were so damn hungry or needed the nutrition their body told them it was a good idea.

Saw something on TV were a guy survived on a raft in the ocean by catching fish and eating their eyeballs for the fresh water in the fluid... he said it turned into almost a delicacy for him even though it is totally nasty and disgusting, because his body knew it needed it.

Pretty sure you are wired for it if push came to shove.

I never said I wasn't. But anyone who is trying to argue with me that eating meat is natural better not be eating meat produced by a factory farm, because what goes on there is far more unnatural than being a vegetarian. I have the ultimate respect for people like FWAV, who make effort to eat locally grown hormone-free meat. That is how I intend to raise my children until they are old enough to decide for themselves.

Originally Posted by Cym Jim

WTF is with people who do different stuff to me? Pfff. ****ing idiots.

Well, and this.

[InTenSity]

Originally Posted by Cym Jim

WTF is with people who do different stuff to me? Pfff. ****ing idiots.

I'm ok with people doing stuff that is different than w/e. But looking at the vegan lifestyle, it doesn't make sense to me. If it weren't for using animals, humans wouldn't even be around. Veganism is only sustainable in this society. What about 3rd world country's where they might still use the Ox to plow the fields? Why are people ok with using close to slave labor to get their animal free veggies? If it makes you feel good, great, but I still contend that unless you basically give up all modern luxuries, you still use animals one way or another. It is a fact of life.

I appreciate the banter back and forth, I'm just trying to better understand the lifestyle. Vegetarian I can understand, just having a hard time understanding this one.

[scott91575]

Originally Posted by Final Countdown

Chimps are primarily herbivores, though they do eat meat on some occasions. That differs greatly from the idea that "if humans don't eat meat every day, their brains will rot and their muscles will die!"

I never contended that. We were discussing the digestive tract of animals. How much meat they eat also depends on their environment and hunting ability, same with humans. Much easier to chew on nearby vegetation, but they do hunt for meat.

As I stated, humans can eat both, and do. I also stated a case could be made our diet should be more plant than animal. Yet meat is not toxic (the statement I was replying to). Our closest relative does eat meat, and throughout human evolution most humans were hunter and gatherers.

We are not herbivores that cannot eat meat. We are in fact omnivores, and the food we choose is often dependent on availability. Since both are often abundant (at least here in the US) a person can choose what they want. I am in no way saying humans have to eat meat, but I am saying they can.

As for the vegan thing, I don't give a **** if you eat a nut, berry, or your living room furniture. I just don't like the bull**** when vegetarians state humans cannot eat raw meat, when in fact humans and their closest relative have done so for thousands of years and continue to do so.

BTW...when I stated often, I in no way meant meat is their major source of food. Yet it's not some desperation act either. Chimpanzees will often hunt more often when vegetation is abundant. Which means they would prefer eating more meat (they have plenty of food and therefore the energy from food sources allows them to choose their meals, and the reason why humans eat more meat since it's readily available). If champanzees and humans were more herbivore than omnivore they would stick only to plants when they are plentiful, yet it's just the opposite.

[Final Countdown]

Originally Posted by scott91575

I never contended that. We were discussing the digestive tract of animals. How much meat they eat also depends on their environment and hunting ability, same with humans. Much easier to chew on nearby vegetation, but they do hunt for meat.

As I stated, humans can eat both, and do. I also stated a case could be made our diet should be more plant than animal. Yet meat is not toxic (the statement I was replying to). Our closest relative does eat meat, and throughout human evolution most humans were hunter and gatherers.

We are not herbivores that cannot eat meat. We are in fact omnivores, and the food we choose is often dependent on availability. Since both are often abundant (at least here in the US) a person can choose what they want. I am in no way saying humans have to eat meat, but I am saying they can.

As for the vegan thing, I don't give a **** if you eat a nut, berry, or your living room furniture. I just don't like the bull**** when vegetarians state humans cannot eat raw meat, when in fact humans and their closest relative have done so for thousands of years and continue to do so.

BTW...when I stated often, I in no way meant meat is their major source of food. Yet it's not some desperation act either. Chimpanzees will often hunt more often when vegetation is abundant. Which means they would prefer eating more meat (they have plenty of food and therefore the energy from food sources allows them to choose their meals, and the reason why humans eat more meat since it's readily available). If champanzees and humans were more herbivore than omnivore they would stick only to plants when they are plentiful, yet it's just the opposite.

Valid, I must have mis-attributed other posters' arguments to you. Sorry.

But I still feel that eating a raw carcass isn't natural for humans... even if chimps do the same. Chimps often eat their own poop and they don't die as a result. That doesn't mean that it would be natural for humans to do the same.

[JonBMSU]

I find vegans have a variety of different reasons behind their choice. Some follow the lifestyle 100% (do not wear leather, or use any animal based products in their daily life) etc due to ethical issues with killing animals. Others avoid animal based products in their diet for religious reasons, some just don't like the taste, and others follow a vegan diet strictly for health reasons, and of course there are the crazy attention whores that you get with any choice that is not the norm.

Also recently there has been quite a bit of info that indicates their is a significant negative environmental impact of a meat based diet.

The idea that we are a natural predator may have some small merit for those that go out and hunt their own food but for most this does not apply. Until we developed the ability to build and use weapons we were not a natural predator, rather we survived on fruits, grains, berries, anything that could be easily gathered from the ground as we did not have the tools to hunt. Imagine trying to catch, let alone kill, a cow, buffalo, or any small game, etc with only your hands, feet and teeth...wouldn't happen.

Another issue many vegans have (and this can apply to fruits/vegetables as well) is the amount of chemicals that end up in food today. One example is how chickens are fed antibiotics daily in a preventative manner which seems pretty crazy when you consider humans only take these type of medication after we a re sick, and even this practice has come under fire as bacteria has mutated and become resistant.

[scott91575]

Originally Posted by JonBMSU

The idea that we are a natural predator may have some small merit for those that go out and hunt their own food but for most this does not apply. Until we developed the ability to build and use weapons we were not a natural predator, rather we survived on fruits, grains, berries, anything that could be easily gathered from the ground as we did not have the tools to hunt. Imagine trying to catch, let alone kill, a cow, buffalo, or any small game, etc with only your hands, feet and teeth...wouldn't happen.

How far back are you going?

The first "humans", or of the genus ****, used tools to scavenge. That includes scavenging for carrion and eating it. Humans may not have always hunted big game, but they sure ate meat when available.

Hell, chimps use tools to hunt. They use sticks to lure out ants. A tool does not have to be an axe or a bow and arrow.

sonofa! H o m o is blocked.

[Left_Of_The_Dial]

Originally Posted by AUAlum06

vegans=pacifists

whimps with no sense of the real world

[PennSpartan]

Vegans are the cause of the needless slaughter of millions of vegetables.

[A.M. wood]

i will only eat free range vegetables that are not confined to rows and that are hand watered and not fed by industrial sprinklers.

[Dorian]

As much as veganism appeals on a social level - cheeseburgers are too good.

[Left_Of_The_Dial]

Originally Posted by Gotham_Spartan

Actually, what the brain needs for development is animal fats -- neurons have an incredibly high fat percentage.

Physiologically yours,

Here is a list of people who might disagree with you:

Pythagoras
Plato
Voltaire
Immanuel Kant
Albert Einstein
Mark Twain
Friedrich Nietzsche
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Mohandas Gandhi
Leo Tolstoy
Franz Kafka
Leonardo da Vinci
Emile Zola
Martin Luther King Jr.
George Bernard Shaw
Sir Isaac Newton
Alice Walker
Vincent Van Gogh
Albert Schweitzer
John Coltrane
Charles Darwin
Louisa May Alcott
Thomas Edison
William Blake
Arthur Schopenhauer
Anthony Robbins
Jiddu Krishnamurti
Socrates
Nikola Tesla
Flavius Claudius Julianus
Richard Wagner
Upton Sinclair
Jean Jacques Rousseau
Srinivasa Ramanujan
Henry David Thoreau
Henry Ford
Alan Watts
Charlotte Bronte
H.G. Wells
John Milton
Aristotle
Apollonius of Tyana

Just think what these people could have accomplished had their brains been able to develop properly.

[JonBMSU]

Originally Posted by scott91575

How far back are you going?

The first "humans", or of the genus ****, used tools to scavenge. That includes scavenging for carrion and eating it. Humans may not have always hunted big game, but they sure ate meat when available.

You make a valid point however "scavenging for carrion" is not the same as the point others have made that humans are at the top of the food chain as a natural predator.

[PennSpartan]

Do Vegans have pets? If so, how do they justify that?

[Watch out Pylon!]

Vegans = PETA = whackjobs. Therefore Vegans = whackjobs. Close this thread.

[Left_Of_The_Dial]

Originally Posted by Watch out Pylon!

Vegans = PETA = whackjobs. Therefore Vegans = whackjobs. Close this thread.

You've been brainwashed by your TV and probably do not even personally know any vegans or PETA members.

But let's not let facts get in the way of how proud you feel over calling other people "whackjobs".

[Krazykyle]

Originally Posted by Left_Of_The_Dial

You've been brainwashed by your TV and probably do not even personally know any vegans or PETA members.

But let's not let facts get in the way of how proud you feel over calling other people "whackjobs".

How did you find a computer made of wood? Was it difficult? Or did you just buy a mac?

[Left_Of_The_Dial]

Originally Posted by Krazykyle

How did you find a computer made of wood? Was it difficult? Or did you just buy a mac?

I build my own computers and actually make them out of carrots.

[Krazykyle]

Originally Posted by Left_Of_The_Dial

I build my own computers and actually make them out of carrots.

Delicious

[LakeMilakokia]

Who's hungry?

[Watch out Pylon!]

Originally Posted by Left_Of_The_Dial

You've been brainwashed by your TV and probably do not even personally know any vegans or PETA members.

But let's not let facts get in the way of how proud you feel over calling other people "whackjobs".

Nope, because PETA is a very vocal lunatic fringe.