2008 vs 2009 MSU Spartans

Handbanana · 11-03-2009, 02:25 PM

Courtesy of Factman from SM

Quote:

Actually, MSU is statistically better almost across the board from last year on both sides of the ball.

Offense
2008 2009
Points/game 25.1 27.2
Yds/carry 3.3 3.8
Rush yds/game 130.2 130.0
Yds/pass 6.9 8.3
Pass yds/game 213.3 273.5
Total yds/game 343.5 403.5
Sacks given up 24 10
Turnovers 22 12

Defense
2008 2009
Points/game 22.1 20.8
Yds/carry 4.1 3.1
Rush yds/game 142.5 103.9
Yds/pass 6.6 6.6
Pass yds/game 213.4 223.6
Total yds/game 355.8 327.5
Sacks 26 24
Turnovers 24 8

Statistically speaking, we are better than we were last year in almost all major categories, yet our record doesn't reflect that. It would appear that statistical difference that stands out significantly to the negative between this season and last season is the decrease in turnovers created.

monty4msu · 11-03-2009, 02:27 PM

Three kinds of lies; Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics

northeastspartan · 11-03-2009, 02:29 PM

Just give me a bowl and give me Roses next year

SpartanGreen78 · 11-03-2009, 02:29 PM

Impossible. We're regressing, and the entire staff should be fired.

MichState04 · 11-03-2009, 02:33 PM

It's simple...no blowout losses this season, lot's of close losses last season.

There is not much difference between this and last season. We weren't that great last season either.

wingfanjim · 11-03-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monty4msu

Three kinds of lies; Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics

I think it shows that, in many cases, we are a better football team than last year but we simply aren't getting the lucky breaks or big plays at the right time (like our lack of turnovers on defense) that we were getting last year. Sometimes the better team doesn't always win and the right bounce at the right time can decide a game. Last year, we got a lot of right bounces going our way.

Sigmakan · 11-03-2009, 02:39 PM

The Big Ten was really bad last year. I believe thats the answer you're looking for.

(Although its not much better this year . . .)

DeuceDrizzle · 11-03-2009, 02:48 PM

Ummm... what about defensive stats??

I don't think many would argue that we aren't doing some good things on offense (other than redzone offense inside the 5). However, our defense SUCKS this year. Pull up some stats on rush yards allowed per game, pass yards allowed per game, total offense allowed per game, and points allowed per game, and we will see where the real difference lies between 2008 and 2009.

EDIT: oh and look up turnover +/- for the year... I guarantee we are a lot worse in 2009 than 2008.

wingfanjim · 11-03-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeuceDrizzle

Ummm... what about defensive stats??

I don't think many would argue that we aren't doing some good things on offense (other than redzone offense inside the 5). However, our defense SUCKS this year. Pull up some stats on rush yards allowed per game, pass yards allowed per game, total offense allowed per game, and points allowed per game, and we will see where the real difference lies between 2008 and 2009.

EDIT: oh and look up turnover +/- for the year... I guarantee we are a lot worse in 2009 than 2008.

did you read the original post? All that stuff is there. The second section is all defensive stats. We giving up fewer points, fewer total yards, and less rushing yards than last season. We are giving up about 10 yards more per game through the air. As far as turnover +/-, last year we were +2 and this year we are -4. You could have figured all this out in the first post.

Statistically speaking, our defense is BETTER this year than last year.

blanch32 · 11-03-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichState04

It's simple...no blowout losses this season, lot's of close losses last season.

There is not much difference between this and last season. We weren't that great last season either.

BANG!

Plus the fact that we aren't generating TOs makes for a longer field for This year's Offense...

wingfanjim · 11-03-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blanch32

BANG!

Plus the fact that we aren't generating TOs makes for a longer field for This year's Offense...

yet in spite of that, we are scoring more points than last year. I tell you, the numbers just don't match the win/loss record. It just goes to tell you how much of football comes down to getting the right breaks at the right time. Last year's team was statistically worse but won 9 games and this year's team has only won 4. Bizarre.

Spartan1985 · 11-03-2009, 03:29 PM

2008 9-3 / 2009 4-5 how's that one?

morgarc · 11-03-2009, 03:29 PM

Two things that are completely different than last year that are having an impact on this season:

TOP
2008 - #4 in B10 at 31:01
2009 - #7 in B10 at 29:19

Red Zone Defense
2008 - #1 in B10 - 75.6%
2009 - #11 in B10 - 92.6%

MichState04 · 11-03-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morgarc

Red Zone Defense
2008 - #1 in B10 - 75.6%
2009 - #11 in B10 - 92.6%

silveroof1 · 11-03-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morgarc

Two things that are completely different than last year that are having an impact on this season:

TOP
2008 - #4 in B10 at 31:01
2009 - #7 in B10 at 29:19

Red Zone Defense
2008 - #1 in B10 - 75.6%
2009 - #11 in B10 - 92.6%

2008 Javon Ringer
2009?

We won some very close games last year, very lucky to beat Iowa and Wisky in 2008.

DeHannen · 11-03-2009, 03:36 PM

An eight turnover swing pretty much gives you wins against CMU, ND and Minny. That makes MSU 7-2 right now.

Jebus, the B10 sucks.

VanWilder · 11-03-2009, 03:36 PM

The answer is simple. Last year we made one play in three games that got us the wins. Picked off a pass in the endzone againt ND, stopped Green on 4th down, kicked a field goal against Wiscy.

This year, we were offsides against CMU, couldn't find a wide open receiver at ND in the endzone, and forgot to cover the slant route against Iowa.

Three plays each year is the difference between 9-3 and 6-6. We made them last year, and have not made them this year.

Sigmakan · 11-03-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morgarc

Red Zone Defense
2008 - #1 in B10 - 75.6%
2009 - #11 in B10 - 92.6%

This is easily the biggest difference. I'd also like to see our red zone offense % comparison. It cant be pretty.

wingfanjim · 11-03-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartan1985

2008 9-3 / 2009 4-5 how's that one?

sure, if you want to oversimplify things. However, can people REALLY say our defense sucks when it's actually giving up less points than it did the year before when we won 9 games.

The simple look at just results. The intelligent try to answer the questions, why and how.

Madison Spartan · 11-03-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingfanjim

I think it shows that, in many cases, we are a better football team than last year but we simply aren't getting the lucky breaks or big plays at the right time (like our lack of turnovers on defense) that we were getting last year. Sometimes the better team doesn't always win and the right bounce at the right time can decide a game. Last year, we got a lot of right bounces going our way.

I think you've really hit the nail on the head here.

We had Minnesota REELING on Saturday. We'd battled back and stolen all of the momentum. We'd gone up three, then fallen four behind, then closed to one.

Then our defense came up huge, moving Minnesota backwards in the fourth quarter into a second in long situation. The momentum kept growing, as we forced a fumble and got ourselves into great field position. Even after the fumble was called back, we had solid coverage and a good rush on a third and long play, and broke up what might otherwise have been a huge play for a first down.

But the ball took a freakish bounce.

And then our offense stalled on a potentially game-tying drive.

One questionable running into the kicker penalty and that was that. Terrible luck.

DeuceDrizzle · 11-03-2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingfanjim

did you read the original post? All that stuff is there. The second section is all defensive stats. We giving up fewer points, fewer total yards, and less rushing yards than last season. We are giving up about 10 yards more per game through the air. As far as turnover +/-, last year we were +2 and this year we are -4. You could have figured all this out in the first post.

Statistically speaking, our defense is BETTER this year than last year.

My bad... for some reason the defensive stats weren't showing up on my POS work computer. To be honest I am pretty surprised our D stats are so similar. We do have a lot more turnovers than last year, and I am surprised at how many turnovers we have created this year... it definitely has not felt like we have created 24 turnovers.

Wow, the TOP and Red Zone D are some pretty nasty stats. I would also be interested in our Red Zone Offensive statistics... I am betting those won't be pretty either.

wingfanjim · 11-03-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeuceDrizzle

My bad... for some reason the defensive stats weren't showing up on my POS work computer. To be honest I am pretty surprised our D stats are so similar. We do have a lot more turnovers than last year, and I am surprised at how many turnovers we have created this year... it definitely has not felt like we have created 24 turnovers.

Wow, the TOP and Red Zone D are some pretty nasty stats. I would also be interested in our Red Zone Offensive statistics... I am betting those won't be pretty either.

I think you read it wrong. We forced way more turnovers LAST year. I think this year we are playing better defense in terms of following the schemes, what we are missing are playmakers who will make the outstanding plays (think Wiley in the endzone with the INT against ND last year).

Think about it, how many big plays have we seen where our defenders were COMPLETELY out of position and the receiver was wide open? Yeah the wheel route to start the game on Saturday and there are a few other examples, but by in large, we've had players in position to get turnovers but they just haven't made the big play.

morgarc · 11-03-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silveroof1

2008 Javon Ringer
2009?

We won some very close games last year, very lucky to beat Iowa and Wisky in 2008.

Don't disagree, we were luckier in close games last year. That's why it comes down to the little things. Kick off coverage for example:

In 2008, 23.6% of our kickoffs went for touchbacks(17 of 76).
In 2009, 4% of our kickoffs have been touchbacks(2 of 50).

Our opponents are starting off in better field position this year compared to last year.
Our opponents are also averaging more first downs per game than last year.

Our defense has played a lot better than last year, just not when it counts, like Red Zone and 3rd/4th down conversions.

wingfanjim · 11-03-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morgarc

Don't disagree, we were luckier in close games last year. That's why it comes down to the little things. Kick off coverage for example:

In 2008, 23.6% of our kickoffs went for touchbacks(17 of 76).
In 2009, 4% of our kickoffs have been touchbacks(2 of 50).

Our opponents are starting off in better field position this year compared to last year.
Our opponents are also averaging more first downs per game than last year.

Our defense has played a lot better than last year, just not when it counts, like Red Zone and 3rd/4th down conversions.

Last year, opponents converted 3rd downs 41% of the time. This year...ALSO 41%.

Sigmakan · 11-03-2009, 04:15 PM

For red zone offense we are in the middle of the pack. But the NCAA ranks that on if you score or not, not if you get a TD. If you compare the number of red zone TDs to red zone FGs we are the worst in the big ten, and 106 in the nation.