These are NOT the Same old Spartans

ISparticus · 11-03-2009, 04:20 PM

Ah, how quickly we forget about the lopsided losses to weaker teams, meteoric rises in September only to melt down in October-November!

How quickly we forget how bad it felt to get your asses kicked (2+ TDs) by someone in the Big Ten not named OSU or Penn State.

Does anyone remember going to back-to-back bowls? The last time that happened was over a decade ago.

I sure don't miss a coach that is a laughing stock. I sure do like a coach that commands everyone's respect from the media to the latest recruit.

Give me close calls, near misses, close defeats over lopsided losses any day of the week. That means that our guys don't quit, they believe, and they play hard. That means that we're competitive. That means we're consistent.

You build a program on those principles.

Now, do I like losing to CMU? **** no. Do I like losing the close games? Hell no, but I also like WINNING some close ones too (which seems to be lost in all of this). Does anyone (coaches included) feel satisfied with the season? I highly doubt it unless you are a UM fan.

But that doesn't mean that this pathetic whining is justified. This program was in a whole helluva lot worse place than it is now, and if you can't see that I'm sorry.

Sigmakan · 11-03-2009, 04:21 PM

Along the same line . . .

atleast we don't have John Goss.

madisonspartan · 11-03-2009, 04:22 PM

I agree.

and his boys still have three games to show us their resolve, and they're going to prove, just as they did in 2007, that this is a different program than it was 4 years ago!

Ybob · 11-03-2009, 04:24 PM

Remember when we lost to CMU because of an off sides penalty?

Sciron · 11-03-2009, 04:26 PM

I'm with you ISparticus.

SpartyHardy · 11-03-2009, 04:28 PM

FWIW...I don't think these are the Same Old Spartans either. It's unfortunate, however, that this team and this program will have that label follow them around after every loss...but that seems to be the price that they will have to pay until this program consistently becomes a winning one. Is it fair...hell no. But as of right now...it is what it is and it's up to this team to change this perception by winning some more games...both this year and in the years ahead.

DeHannen · 11-03-2009, 04:30 PM

Sorry, these are the same old Spartans. You are not going to win every game, I understand that. But MSU:

Lost to CMU in stunning SOS fashion.

Lost to Iowa on a stunning SOS play.

Lost to Notre Dame on a stunning SOS play.

Lost to Minnesota the week after they got killed by 35 points and they lost their most productive receiver., and Minnesota gets called for 17 penalties.

I would say this season ranks right up there with the other bone crushers in Spartan lore.

Guy Incognito · 11-03-2009, 04:31 PM

ISparticus.

No, ISparticus.

I mean, I agree with you.

MichState04 · 11-03-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeHannen

Lost to CMU in stunning SOS fashion.

Lost to Iowa on a stunning SOS play.

Lost to Notre Dame on a stunning SOS play.

So what was beating scUM in OT this year? What was beating UW on a last second FG? What was stopping Iowa last season on a 4th and 1 and winning?

Based on your definition of SOS, pretty much every team in the NCAA's are SOS's at some point or another. We are in the midst of our best 3 year run in a long time. We are improving.

SpartanGreen78 · 11-03-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeHannen

Sorry, these are the same old Spartans. You are not going to win every game, I understand that. But MSU:

Lost to CMU in stunning SOS fashion.

Lost to Iowa on a stunning SOS play.

Lost to Notre Dame on a stunning SOS play.

Lost to Minnesota the week after they got killed by 35 points and they lost their most productive receiver., and Minnesota gets called for 17 penalties.

I would say this season ranks right up there with the other bone crushers in Spartan lore.

Some people are only pleased with 13 win seasons, and even then they'd probably bitch that the point margin wasn't big enough.

Sigmakan · 11-03-2009, 04:35 PM

As far as I'm concerned we lost to Wisc by atleast 2 TDs. The ones we got at the end were during garbage time, hardly count. They dominated us.

ISparticus · 11-03-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpartyHardy

FWIW...I don't think these are the Same Old Spartans either. It's unfortunate, however, that this team and this program will have that label follow them around after every loss...but that seems to be the price that they will have to pay until this program consistently becomes a winning one. Is it fair...hell no. But as of right now...it is what it is and it's up to this team to change this perception by winning some more games...both this year and in the years ahead.

Yeah it's a label they'll always have over their heads until multiple BCS seasons. Even then, any whiff of defeat would mean the media starting to dust off the expression.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichState04

So what was beating scUM in OT this year? What was beating UW on a last second FG? What was stopping Iowa last season on a 4th and 1 and winning?

Based on your definition of SOS, pretty much every team in the NCAA's are SOS's at some point or another. We are in the midst of our best 3 year run in a long time. We are improving.

I knew I shouldn't have taken him off of iggy.

DeHannen · 11-03-2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichState04

So what was beating scUM in OT this year? What was beating UW on a last second FG? What was stopping Iowa last season on a 4th and 1 and winning?

Based on your definition of SOS, pretty much every team in the NCAA's are SOS's at some point or another. We are in the midst of our best 3 year run in a long time. We are improving.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpartanGreen78

Some people are only pleased with 13 win seasons, and even then they'd probably bitch that the point margin wasn't big enough.

First of all the OP was talking about this year, not last year. Last year's games mean nothing. The UM game? You are going to put forth the UM game as evidence that SOS does not exist?

I would have been pleased with 8-4 this year. 7-5 would have been respectable. 6-6 is a step back, alas, SOS.

Coach Ks bad back · 11-03-2009, 04:40 PM

Losing to CMU is SOS. This CMU team was manhandled by Arizona and BC, so spare me the "great MAC team" nonsense. Clutching defeat from the jaws of victory against Iowa was SOS. Getting down 14-0 to Minnesota in 36 goddamn seconds was SOS. The blown tackles, piss poor blocking and boneheaded picks are all SOS.

There are only two things different about this season as opposed to a JLS season:

1) We've pretty much sucked all year, and didn't even have a nice September to get expectations up.

2) We battled back from deficits to lose "respectably" as opposed to getting blown off the field.

That's it. All the rest...the terrible fundamentals, the stupid penalties, not coming out prepared for games, puckering up with a lead, the crappy 4-5 record...it all reeks of slappy.

Hank Moody · 11-03-2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeHannen

Sorry, these are the same old Spartans. You are not going to win every game, I understand that. But MSU:

Lost to CMU in stunning SOS fashion.

Lost to Iowa on a stunning SOS play.

Lost to Notre Dame on a stunning SOS play.

Lost to Minnesota the week after they got killed by 35 points and they lost their most productive receiver., and Minnesota gets called for 17 penalties.

I would say this season ranks right up there with the other bone crushers in Spartan lore.

This season has DEFINED SOS, hell, this is a defining chapter in the SOS handbook.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is not paying attention.

That said, I do think MD will end this non-sense....not sure why, but I do.

tjmania · 11-03-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpartyHardy

FWIW...I don't think these are the Same Old Spartans either. It's unfortunate, however, that this team and this program will have that label follow them around after every loss...but that seems to be the price that they will have to pay until this program consistently becomes a winning one. Is it fair...hell no. But as of right now...it is what it is and it's up to this team to change this perception by winning some more games...both this year and in the years ahead.

For a long time the Red Wings had to shake "the Dead Things" label.

Last Big Ten title was 2 decades ago and it was shared w/ 3 other teams. Last outright was 1987. Lots of ugly, ugly losses in since 1990.

When you lose a game to an onside kick, you deserve to hear Rece Davis say, "That's why you're Michigan State!"

Deny your history all you want but the record books don't lie.

Coach Ks bad back · 11-03-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichState04

So what was beating scUM in OT this year? What was beating UW on a last second FG? What was stopping Iowa last season on a 4th and 1 and winning?

Based on your definition of SOS, pretty much every team in the NCAA's are SOS's at some point or another. We are in the midst of our best 3 year run in a long time. We are improving.

How can you say that with a straight face? Last year, I saw a team that was fundamentally sound, didn't beat itself, respected every opponent, beat the teams it should have and came out ready to play every game. This year is the complete opposite. How does that qualify as improvement? On this planet, we call that regression.

DeHannen · 11-03-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Moody

This season has DEFINED SOS, hell, this is a defining chapter in the SOS handbook.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is not paying attention.

That said, I do think MD will end this non-sense....not sure why, but I do.

SpartyHardy · 11-03-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeHannen

Sorry, these are the same old Spartans. You are not going to win every game, I understand that. But MSU:

Lost to CMU in stunning SOS fashion.

Lost to Iowa on a stunning SOS play.

Lost to Notre Dame on a stunning SOS play.

Lost to Minnesota the week after they got killed by 35 points and they lost their most productive receiver., and Minnesota gets called for 17 penalties.

I would say this season ranks right up there with the other bone crushers in Spartan lore.

Gotcha. Please give us all of your solutions to immediately fix all of this. Ready?....Go!

madisonspartan · 11-03-2009, 04:46 PM

Does anyone else think it's still, perhaps, early to be drawing conclusions? 7 wins is certainly possible, and there's no reason to think that this team doesn't get to 8-5 when it's all said and done. Reserve your judgment for a few more weeks, gentlemen.

Hank Moody · 11-03-2009, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpartyHardy

Gotcha. Please give us all of your solutions to immediately fix all of this. Ready?....Go!

Not sure he was suggesting a fix, rather making a fairly legit observation of this season.

DeHannen · 11-03-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpartyHardy

Gotcha. Please give us all of your solutions to immediately fix all of this. Ready?....Go!

Send that cashiers check for 1.3 million and I will get right on that.

Sunshine blowers.

fishrose · 11-03-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeHannen

Sorry, these are the same old Spartans. You are not going to win every game, I understand that. But MSU:

Lost to CMU in stunning SOS fashion.

Lost to Iowa on a stunning SOS play.

Lost to Notre Dame on a stunning SOS play.

Lost to Minnesota the week after they got killed by 35 points and they lost their most productive receiver., and Minnesota gets called for 17 penalties.

I would say this season ranks right up there with the other bone crushers in Spartan lore.

It really seems like you have no idea what SOS means. The "Same Old Spartans" start a season strong only to collapse halfway down the stretch. This team has consistently improved over the course of the season. The "Same Old Spartans" rack up huge first-half leads and then meltdown at the end of the game and blow it. This team has played close games all season.

Losing to CMU was rough, but it was close the whole way, and MSU caught a couple rough breaks, especially on special teams. Not SOS.

Playing three and a half quarters of very competitive football against a top-10 ranked team, then losing a 4-point lead with two seconds left on the clock is not SOS.

Playing a very close game against ND and throwing a pick in the red zone on the final drive is not SOS.

Would you call the 2007 team SOS? This year's team has a much better conference record than that team and has only one fewer win than the same time in the season in 2007. Mark Dantonio has effectively proven that he can win games in the Big Ten schedule. I think that a record of 4-5 and 3-3 in the B10 shows a ton of improvement over 5-4 and 1-4 in the B10. Yes, MSU has to win its nonconference games if they want to be a championship team, but to say this is "SOS" or "the program is regressing" is absolutely laughable.

The Armchair Quarterback · 11-03-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madisonspartan

Does anyone else think it's still, perhaps, early to be drawing conclusions? 7 wins is certainly possible, and there's no reason to think that this team doesn't get to 8-5 when it's all said and done. Reserve your judgment for a few more weeks, gentlemen.

8-5 with Kelly. Dantanio 6-7

wingfanjim · 11-03-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Ks bad back

How can you say that with a straight face? Last year, I saw a team that was fundamentally sound, didn't beat itself, respected every opponent, beat the teams it should have and came out ready to play every game. This year is the complete opposite. How does that qualify as improvement? On this planet, we call that regression.

How were we more fundamentally sound last year?

We are scoring more points than last year and giving up fewer points. We are gaining more yards and giving up fewer than last year. Fundamentally speaking, we are as good if not better in virtually all phases of the game. Our biggest issue is that we haven't forced the turnovers and the other big plays we made last year. The way its shaping up, I would argue that this year's team is a better team that just isn't getting the breaks that last year's team did.