How the heck is USF #24?

[atlspartan73]

And how the heck is Rutgers up only 10-0? Because they both stink. USF with 4 TO's with 7 minutes left in the half .

[atlspartan73]

If Rutgers was anywhere near decent they would be up 30-0.

[atlspartan73]

I'm assuming not many are watching this ugliness, now Rutgers up 31-0.

[Fromunda Cheese]

Originally Posted by atlspartan73

I'm assuming not many are watching this ugliness, now Rutgers up 31-0.

I took the Rutgers +1 on vBookie tonight!

[RPMadMSU]

Because the Big Ten is terrible.

(I know that has nothing to do with the price of tea in China, but some one at ESPN will find a way to link it.)

[OPSpartan]

Because the big east is better than the NFC East.

-sincerely,
the brian kelly ball lickers

[badgerman27]

Because they have all of that southern speed. Every time they turn the ball over, it happens so fast you can hardly see it.

[02alumnus]

I believe you mean, "How the heck was USF #24?"

[spartanFan801]

If Illinois gets points against Cincinatti: TAKE ILLINOIS

Natti is good, but the Illini are on a roll. I think it's the game that will show Cinci is just a good team, not great, in a weak division.

And I have this funny feeling Pitt loses to ND, but I'd never bet on Front Butt.

[markv]

You guys are too funny. Keep slamming conferences you know nothing about, and then keep being shocked when they win their bowl games and have better ratings than the Big Ten.

Y'all know that in the past decade the Big East has beaten up on the SEC at a rate of 2 out of 3 games, right? Look it up.

Rutgers = Wisconsin. USF is talented and fast, but stupid and fragile, and they just pulled a Purdue at Wisconsin. Big deal.

[ROCGreen]

Originally Posted by markv

You guys are too funny. Keep slamming conferences you know nothing about, and then keep being shocked when they win their bowl games and have better ratings than the Big Ten.

Y'all know that in the past decade the Big East has beaten up on the SEC at a rate of 2 out of 3 games, right? Look it up.

Rutgers = Wisconsin. USF is talented and fast, but stupid and fragile, and they just pulled a Purdue at Wisconsin. Big deal.

You do realize what bowl games the Big East plays in right? Similar to USC in Pasadena and the SEC 2 and 3 teams in Florida each year I'm sure.

By ratings do you mean TV ratings or rankings? Either way I'm kind of

[OPSpartan]

Originally Posted by markv

You guys are too funny. Keep slamming conferences you know nothing about, and then keep being shocked when they win their bowl games and have better ratings than the Big Ten.

Y'all know that in the past decade the Big East has beaten up on the SEC at a rate of 2 out of 3 games, right? Look it up.

Rutgers = Wisconsin. USF is talented and fast, but stupid and fragile, and they just pulled a Purdue at Wisconsin. Big deal.

cincy got smoked by a Va tech team who's qb threw a whopping 2 touchdowns the entire season. Their other bowls are hilariously pathetic and would be an embarassment to any of the other bcs conferences.

[Mr. Tanfan]

Op. What is your take on how msu has been coached this year.

[newlander]

OPSpartan
Walk-On



5,000+ posts

Join Date: Apr 2002

Posts: 7,253


#58 Trevor Anderson

[fishrose]

Unrelated question: why is heck not a "bad" word? You take the beginning of a swear, put it with the end of an even worse swear, and suddenly it's ok?

[SouthernSpartan]

Originally Posted by markv

You guys are too funny. Keep slamming conferences you know nothing about...

This board knows everything.......Why, just the other day I was reading a thread which explained why next week's Penn State game could still be moved to prime time on ABC/ESPN.

[Western Reserve Spartan]

Originally Posted by markv

You guys are too funny. Keep slamming conferences you know nothing about, and then keep being shocked when they win their bowl games and have better ratings than the Big Ten.

Y'all know that in the past decade the Big East has beaten up on the SEC at a rate of 2 out of 3 games, right? Look it up.

Rutgers = Wisconsin. USF is talented and fast, but stupid and fragile, and they just pulled a Purdue at Wisconsin. Big deal.

Remove BC, Miami and Virginia Tech from that record because they are no longer Big East teams. What you have left is some wins by West Virginia against Mississippi State. I guess that's "beating up on" the SEC.

[markv]

I don't know why i'm stuck defending a conference i don't give a crap about, but here i go. A few days ago it was the Pac-10, now it's the Big East. Can't all of you just accept that you think the SEC, B12, and B10 are better and the P10, BE, and ACC are "crappy" simply because of tv exposure and long-held media bias?

If you've read my bball posts, you know i'm being fair about this, because i was posting stats slamming the Big East last year in basketball, since by all objective stats they were the 3rd best conference, yet were being worshipped as the best ever.

Anyway, the football facts:


As far as the defections of BC, Miami, and VT, it's an interesting point. Well ok, take those teams out, and let's just look at the last 4 years. Big East vs. SEC, just including the current 8 BE teams.

Big East 6 wins
SEC 2 wins

(game results are on College Football Data Warehouse)

You can even eliminate W. Virginia, and just include the bottom 7 current members, and STILL the Big East has a winning record against the SEC.

hmm. Seems pretty clear that the Big East stacks up just fine.

And also FTR: the Big East, with just the 8 current members, is the 4th-rated conference this year according to most computer models, ahead of the Big Ten and Big 12. Last year they were rated 3rd.

The Big East doesn't play a bunch of home bowls, so that argument is pretty much dead in the water. The list is below. The only conference that plays bowls more on road turf is the Big Ten. In terms of opposition in those bowl games, the Big East opposition is one notch below what the Big Ten faces, (basically swap out one of our SEC opponents and replace it with a C-USA opponent), but consider that there are only 8 Big East schools to fill these bowls. Of course, if you think the ACC is also terrible (you guys are hilarious, y'know), then you'd say the Big East plays nobody.



Big East bowl tie-ins:

St. Petersburg vs. Conference USA is neutral

Meinecke (Charlotte) vs. ACC is a road game

Sun Bowl vs. Pac 10 is a road game

Gator Bowl vs. ACC is neutral

International vs. MAC is neutral

Papa John's (Birmingham) vs. SEC is a road game

BCS vs. ?

None of their BCS bowls could be consider home games.

[Ybob]

Originally Posted by markv

I don't know why i'm stuck defending a conference i don't give a crap about, but here i go. A few days ago it was the Pac-10, now it's the Big East. Can't all of you just accept that you think the SEC, B12, and B10 are better and the P10, BE, and ACC are "crappy" simply because of tv exposure and long-held media bias?

If you've read my bball posts, you know i'm being fair about this, because i was posting stats slamming the Big East last year in basketball, since by all objective stats they were the 3rd best conference, yet were being worshipped as the best ever.

Anyway, the football facts:


As far as the defections of BC, Miami, and VT, it's an interesting point. Well ok, take those teams out, and let's just look at the last 4 years. Big East vs. SEC, just including the current 8 BE teams.

Big East 6 wins
SEC 2 wins

(game results are on College Football Data Warehouse)

You can even eliminate W. Virginia, and just include the bottom 7 current members, and STILL the Big East has a winning record against the SEC.

hmm. Seems pretty clear that the Big East stacks up just fine.

And also FTR: the Big East, with just the 8 current members, is the 4th-rated conference this year according to most computer models, ahead of the Big Ten and Big 12. Last year they were rated 3rd.

The Big East doesn't play a bunch of home bowls, so that argument is pretty much dead in the water. The list is below. The only conference that plays bowls more on road turf is the Big Ten. In terms of opposition in those bowl games, the Big East opposition is one notch below what the Big Ten faces, (basically swap out one of our SEC opponents and replace it with a C-USA opponent), but consider that there are only 8 Big East schools to fill these bowls. Of course, if you think the ACC is also terrible (you guys are hilarious, y'know), then you'd say the Big East plays nobody.



Big East bowl tie-ins:

St. Petersburg vs. Conference USA is neutral

Meinecke (Charlotte) vs. ACC is a road game

Sun Bowl vs. Pac 10 is a road game

Gator Bowl vs. ACC is neutral

International vs. MAC is neutral

Papa John's (Birmingham) vs. SEC is a road game

BCS vs. ?

None of their BCS bowls could be consider home games.

Look at that worthless bowl schedule. It's like a larger version of an OOC schedule. They play against the MAC and CUSA .

Papa Johns bowl = Big East #5 vs. SEC #9
Meinke Car Care Bowl = Big East #3 vs. ACC #6
Gator Bowl = Big East #2 vs. ACC #3
Sun Bowl = Big East #2 vs. Pac 10 #3

The Gator Bowl/Sun Bowl are swapped in various years between ND/BE/B12

Also, the other 2 bowls are vs MAC and CUSA like I said. C'mon man... that's terruble.

[markv]

If you have no appreciation for size of conference (if you have 8 teams, your #2 team is the same as the #3 team of a 12-team conference) or the strength of the ACC, then oh well.

Btw, the Big Ten plays against the MAC also. And regarding CUSA, i conceded that was the one spot where the BE lineup is weaker than the Big10 lineup.

[Western Reserve Spartan]

Originally Posted by markv

I don't know why i'm stuck defending a conference i don't give a crap about, but here i go. A few days ago it was the Pac-10, now it's the Big East. Can't all of you just accept that you think the SEC, B12, and B10 are better and the P10, BE, and ACC are "crappy" simply because of tv exposure and long-held media bias?

If you've read my bball posts, you know i'm being fair about this, because i was posting stats slamming the Big East last year in basketball, since by all objective stats they were the 3rd best conference, yet were being worshipped as the best ever.

Anyway, the football facts:


As far as the defections of BC, Miami, and VT, it's an interesting point. Well ok, take those teams out, and let's just look at the last 4 years. Big East vs. SEC, just including the current 8 BE teams.

Big East 6 wins
SEC 2 wins

(game results are on College Football Data Warehouse)

You can even eliminate W. Virginia, and just include the bottom 7 current members, and STILL the Big East has a winning record against the SEC.

hmm. Seems pretty clear that the Big East stacks up just fine.

And also FTR: the Big East, with just the 8 current members, is the 4th-rated conference this year according to most computer models, ahead of the Big Ten and Big 12. Last year they were rated 3rd.

The Big East doesn't play a bunch of home bowls, so that argument is pretty much dead in the water. The list is below. The only conference that plays bowls more on road turf is the Big Ten. In terms of opposition in those bowl games, the Big East opposition is one notch below what the Big Ten faces, (basically swap out one of our SEC opponents and replace it with a C-USA opponent), but consider that there are only 8 Big East schools to fill these bowls. Of course, if you think the ACC is also terrible (you guys are hilarious, y'know), then you'd say the Big East plays nobody.



Big East bowl tie-ins:

St. Petersburg vs. Conference USA is neutral

Meinecke (Charlotte) vs. ACC is a road game

Sun Bowl vs. Pac 10 is a road game

Gator Bowl vs. ACC is neutral

International vs. MAC is neutral

Papa John's (Birmingham) vs. SEC is a road game

BCS vs. ?

None of their BCS bowls could be consider home games.

Post some of the SEC teams the Big East has wins over--UK, Mississippi State and Auburn.

Would you have a ton of respect for the Big East over the Big 10 if they had wins over Indiana, Minnesota and Iowa?

Cherry-picking a couple of non-conference matchups to make your point isn't any more valid than everyone's supposed "media bias". I don't need the media to tell me that the top half of the SEC this year would crush the top half of the Big East this year. I can tell by watching the teams play.

[Western Reserve Spartan]

Originally Posted by markv

If you have no appreciation for size of conference (if you have 8 teams, your #2 team is the same as the #3 team of a 12-team conference) or the strength of the ACC, then oh well.

Btw, the Big Ten plays against the MAC also. And regarding CUSA, i conceded that was the one spot where the BE lineup is weaker than the Big10 lineup.

What?

[markv]

Originally Posted by Western Reserve Spartan

Post some of the SEC teams the Big East has wins over--UK, Mississippi State and Auburn.

Would you have a ton of respect for the Big East over the Big 10 if they had wins over Indiana, Minnesota and Iowa?

Cherry-picking a couple of non-conference matchups to make your point isn't any more valid than everyone's supposed "media bias". I don't need the media to tell me that the top half of the SEC this year would crush the top half of the Big East this year. I can tell by watching the teams play.

I didn't cherry pick anything. I counted every game. Go look it up at the site i posted above. I'm not going to waste more time on listing every game. I remember there were wins over Georgia and Auburn in there. Facts are facts.

Sorry you don't understand ratios. The media doesn't either. But if you have a 10 team conference and a 20 team conference, mathematically they line up something like:

1 vs. 1
2 vs. 4
3 vs. 6 etc.

So, on average

BE 1 compares to SEC 1
BE 2 compares to SEC 3
etc.
BE8 compares to SEC 12

Otherwise you just throw out the worst 4 SEC teams as not existing, which skews the comparison.

I was both and a few years ago when the media was praising the SEC for having the most! bowl! wins! that year. They were 6-3. Meanwhile the Big East was 5-0 and the Pac 10 was 5-1, which are both better records than 6-3.

[Western Reserve Spartan]

Originally Posted by markv

I didn't cherry pick anything. I counted every game. Go look it up at the site i posted above. I'm not going to waste more time on listing every game. I remember there were wins over Georgia and Auburn in there. Facts are facts.

Sorry you don't understand ratios. The media doesn't either. But if you have a 10 team conference and a 20 team conference, mathematically they line up something like:

1 vs. 1
2 vs. 4
3 vs. 6 etc.

So, on average

BE 1 compares to SEC 1
BE 2 compares to SEC 3
etc.
BE8 compares to SEC 12

Otherwise you just throw out the worst 4 SEC teams as not existing, which skews the comparison.

I was both and a few years ago when the media was praising the SEC for having the most! bowl! wins! that year. They were 6-3. Meanwhile the Big East was 5-0 and the Pac 10 was 5-1, which are both better records than 6-3.

So, your argument is seriously that if we are going to compare a 12 team and a 7 team conference, the way to do that is to ignore teams 2 through 4 of the larger conference? And you think this is actually the best way to compare two conferences?

Yeah, sorry SEC, Alabama doesn't exist because the Big East only has 7 teams and you can only compare USF to Tennessee.

The Big East has acquitted itself well in bowl and non-conference games in the last 5 years despite the defection of traditional powers. But if this is your argument you do not have credibility. You can't just arbitrarily assign mathematical ratios to college football and expect to get a realistic result. The old saw about liars and figures seems to apply.

[markv]

Originally Posted by Western Reserve Spartan

So, your argument is seriously that if we are going to compare a 12 team and a 7 team conference, the way to do that is to ignore teams 2 through 4 of the larger conference? And you think this is actually the best way to compare two conferences?

Yeah, sorry SEC, Alabama doesn't exist because the Big East only has 7 teams and you can only compare USF to Tennessee.

Good god. I'll spell out the whole thing, since you didn't get it. If you want to skip the math, just get the point that the Big East's #2 team should be equal to the SEC's #3 team, just like the Big East's second-to-WORST team should equal the SEC's third-to-worst.

The point is that you can't say the Big East plays easy matchups, just because they have fewer teams and so they can't say "Big East #8 team vs. MAC"

BE 1 vs. SEC 1 (or 1.25, rounded to an even number)
BE 2 vs. SEC 3 (2.75)
BE 3 vs. SEC 4 (4.25)
BE 4 vs. SEC 6 (5.75)
BE 5 vs. SEC 7 (7.25)
BE 6 vs. SEC 9 (8.75)
BE 7 vs. SEC 10 (10.25)
BE 8 vs. SEC 12 (11.75)

That's the only equal comparison of an 8 team and a 12 team conference. Match up the top teams, the bottom teams, the middle teams, and then average out the in-betweens. My previous example was for a hypothetical 20 team conference (which doesn't exist) because i thought you'd understand the ratio matchup better.