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steveschneider · 11-22-2009, 02:53 PM

How come Nick Saban is able to compete for national championships at other schools, but at MSU he wasn't even close?

pulling69 · 11-22-2009, 02:58 PM

The Armchair Quarterback · 11-22-2009, 02:59 PM

We went 10-2 in 99 under Saban

Hank Moody · 11-22-2009, 02:59 PM

Two words. One man.

George Perles.

CincySpartan · 11-22-2009, 03:05 PM

I think it would be inappropriate to say that coaches don't develop and get better over time..... we caught Nicky early in his career.... and it goes without saying that going to a bigger name also really helps recruiting and your ability to put together a good team. I think he also faced a much tougher Big Ten, Wisconsin, OSU, SCum were all damn good around then

Barney_Greengrass · 11-22-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CincySpartan

I think it would be inappropriate to say that coaches don't develop and get better over time..... we caught Nicky early in his career.... and it goes without saying that going to a bigger name also really helps recruiting and your ability to put together a good team. I think he also faced a much tougher Big Ten, Wisconsin, OSU, SCum were all damn good around then

True. Because Florida & LSU are the only decent teams in the SEC. Rest are pretenders.

spartanMF · 11-22-2009, 03:08 PM

Saban did not get beyond 7 wins until his sixth season at MSU.

AUAlum06 · 11-22-2009, 03:09 PM

um check the history and tradition of Alabama and LSU and then get back to me

Hank Moody · 11-22-2009, 03:09 PM

Saban inherited a much worse situation than MD did.

pulling69 · 11-22-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Armchair Quarterback

We went 10-2 in 99 under Saban

Actually Saban led the team to a 9-2 record that year and bailed before the bowl game that Bobby Williams coached.

MSchott · 11-22-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUAlum06

um check the history and tradition of Alabama and LSU and then get back to me

This.

GRR Spartan · 11-22-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Moody

Saban inherited a much worse situation than MD did.

And he inherited much better recruiting situations and a much friendlier admissions offices at LSU and Alabama.

But those things don't matter right?

DFWGreen · 11-22-2009, 03:32 PM

Saban did have to hire a completly new staff when he bailed on MSU...

xwing · 11-22-2009, 03:34 PM

Because MSU has to recruit against UM, ND, OSU and PSU every year and has a smaller talent pool than Alabama has down south.

NFL draft history: Where the talent comes from - USATODAY.com

That and MSU had reduced scholarships at the time because of NCAA sanctions.

Hank Moody · 11-22-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRR Spartan

And he inherited much better recruiting situations and a much friendlier admissions offices at LSU and Alabama.

But those things don't matter right?

Not suggesting LSU and 'Bama are at the same level of MSU. I am, however, making the case Saban did not have it easy when he was here. Not by a long shot. GP left this program in shambles. Our administration at the time was indifferent towards football. Perceptions of MSU football was at an all time low making it very difficult to recruit.

Ron_in_ATL · 11-22-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUAlum06

um check the history and tradition of Alabama and LSU and then get back to me

LSU never could get over the hump in recent memory before Saban and Bama was lost in space. Both have serious talent pools to draw from but coaching does make a dif. Otherwise, Harvey Williams or Tommy Hodson would have won a NC.

richwig · 11-22-2009, 03:35 PM

Saban himself said when he quit that he was sick and tired of hearing about Michigan all the time. Look at a map and see how many Big Ten schools are within a 5 hour drive from EL, with Ann Arbor just one hour away.

So it's like having the winningest team in college football history 1 hour away, and OSU, Purdue, Notre Dame within striking distance. That's a lot of competition for recruits.

GRR Spartan · 11-22-2009, 03:52 PM

Saban wanted to win mor and do it faster. Louisiana is one of the richest football states in the country and LSU is the only SEC school in the state. Those two things make it much better than MSU when it comes to building a program.

I have always believed you can win at MSU but you needed a coaching staff that was confident that they weren't going to be cut off at the knees by the AD or administration and would be given time to set up a solid network for recruiting.

If you do it Saban's way you take a job at a place like LSU that is the only SEC school in the state, has huge recruiting resources and a much more lenient admissions office than any Big Ten schools.

There is the umaa way where until 2 years ago the recruiting networks was pretty much gently passed from coaching staff to coaching staff to the point where MSU was basically locked out of schools like OLSM or Cass Tech plus dozens of Ohio HS football powers.

Then you have the Tressel rolodex method where Jim Tressel's father was the head coach at D3 Baldwin Wallace for years and had been a HS coach at Mentor and Massilon prior to that. Lee Tressel died in 1981 after 23 years and Jim just added his father's HS connections to his own. After coaching as an assistant he goes to Youngstown State and keeps all those contacts in Ohio. In that respect Tressel is like JoPa. Everybody in the state knows him and/or knew about his father's history the first day he recruited for Ohio State.

Look at those situations and MSU's over the last 30 years and there are no comparisons.

Jim in Atl · 11-22-2009, 04:00 PM

Great thread so I will play.

Saban did not want in the phone booth with um. He was never about relationships. Givien the obstcals to recruiting stated above, saban's strategy is to have others do the work of recruiting. Caring is not his mo.

Now, with Dantonio you have that, the stability and both nd and um leaving the door open for us in Michigan and Ohio. There has never been a better opportunity to turn the cycle since bo was hired.

ricola · 11-22-2009, 04:06 PM

He finished 10-2 in 1999 and I believed we ended the season ranked 8th. That's as close as we've gotten. Best coach we ever had. I think the 500,000 a year raise had more to do with his leaving then this supposed quote about not wanting to compete against Michigan. State could of matched, they didn't even try.

rob · 11-22-2009, 04:16 PM

Many things but some factors are a larger available talent pool...high school football in the south is generally more competitive...players are more coachable.

Jim in Atl · 11-22-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricola

He finished 10-2 in 1999 and I believed we ended the season ranked 8th. That's as close as we've gotten. Best coach we ever had. I think the 500,000 a year raise had more to do with his leaving then this supposed quote about not wanting to compete against Michigan. State could of matched, they didn't even try.

x and o is just part of coaching a program to greatness. Saban is a better fit at lsu and Bama because they recruit themselves and they have more talent from which to chose. They both evaluate just evaluate and choose from great talent.

At MSU we have been stuck mostly searching and evaluating for diamonds that others don't want plus the talented kids that want to play at the highest level without waiting. This is changing with Dantonio and his relationships plus mich and nd allowing us to fill our roster with young kids from mich and Ohio. This shows on the field with skill positions, and with redshirts on the lines.

pulling69 · 11-22-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricola

He finished 10-2 in 1999 and I believed we ended the season ranked 8th. That's as close as we've gotten. Best coach we ever had. I think the 500,000 a year raise had more to do with his leaving then this supposed quote about not wanting to compete against Michigan. State could of matched, they didn't even try.

Again, he finished 9-2

ricola · 11-22-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richwig

Saban himself said when he quit that he was sick and tired of hearing about Michigan all the time. Look at a map and see how many Big Ten schools are within a 5 hour drive from EL, with Ann Arbor just one hour away.

So it's like having the winningest team in college football history 1 hour away, and OSU, Purdue, Notre Dame within striking distance. That's a lot of competition for recruits.

When did he actually say this? I think it's an urban legend.

GRR Spartan · 11-22-2009, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricola

He finished 10-2 in 1999 and I believed we ended the season ranked 8th. That's as close as we've gotten. Best coach we ever had. I think the 500,000 a year raise had more to do with his leaving then this supposed quote about not wanting to compete against Michigan. State could of matched, they didn't even try.

Keep dreaming the dream. Saban's support among the MSU big time donors was wearing thin 2 seasons before he left. I have spoken to one donor whose company jet was used by MSU football for recruiting who told me Terry Saban (wife) was one of the only reasons several major donors hadn't bailed earlier.

I will never say Nick Saban can't coach but his record was not that stellar until his 10-2 season. (I know there was probation in there) but then Nick wanted to renegotiate his contract every Sunday after beating umaa. McPherson told him that MSU would talk contract after the season. Wasn't soon enough for Nick and he was on that midnight plane to Baton Rouge.

I was told Nick was arrogant at LSU too but it didn't matter as much since they had just lived through DiNardo who was a great guy who lost too many games. Word is Saban has gotten smarter about public relations since he went back to Alabama but that's 10 years and millions of dollars later.