Probably my last 9/11 post

[Fletch]

Originally Posted by roundhead

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spain_fire_9-11.html

How big was the airliner that hit this building?

[lars]

Roundhead the engineers DO NOT claim that steel melted. In fact, no one who understands how the building fell claims that the steel melted. They only point out that a fire under these circumstances was hot enough to WEAKEN the steel. This combined with the severe damage from a PLANE hitting the structure caused at least one floor to collapse. The one floor collapsing combined with the weight of the floors above caused the pancaking.

How hard is this to understand?

Also you don't address that Les Robertson the designer to the WTC. Who built the WTC to withstand a 707 plane says that FIRE brought the buildings down. You forget the buildings did stand after the impact. So they exceeded the design requirements.

[SBSpartan]

Originally Posted by roundhead

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spain_fire_9-11.html

Do you really believe what that guy has to say? Do you know anything at all about his background? Do you buy into anything that someone would say that thinks the holocaust didn't happen?

Rivero's focused support of free speech with regard to holocaust denial[2] and his claims that Zionists acting on behalf of the state of Israel are behind many major terrorist incidents[3][4] and Rivero's labeling of suspected Israeli spying on the government of the United States as the “Mother of All Scandals”[5] have led to accusations of anti-Semitism against him by his critics,[6] to whom he replies using a quote attributed to Colin Powell pointing out that criticizing Israel's government policies is not itself anti-Semitic.


This guy is a complete idiot and I can't believe you expect people to see you as credible when you reference him.

[Fletch]

Originally Posted by SBSpartan

This guy is a complete idiot and I can't believe you expect people to see you as credible when you reference him.

The bottom line is that anyone who claims the government did it is automatically "realiable" in Round's book.

[SBSpartan]

Round think about this and tell me how it makes sense.

If there was in fact molten metal being pulled out of the site, how in the hell did they pull it out? Wouldn't the lifts and cranes become so hot they too would turn to molten metal? Wouldn't the hydraulics fail? Wouldn't the people running the thing melt like that guy in Raiders of the Lost Arc? I mean seriously how close can you get to a camp fire let alone molten metal?

[Fletch]

One of the most common tactics utilized by conspiracy theorists when making their case for this or any other grand conspiracy theory is diversion. For example, NOBODY claims that the steel of the WTC melted. However, page after page of their websites are dedicated to "FIRE CANNOT MELT STEEL! IT'S ALL A SHAM!" Or the classic "no steel building in history has collapsed due to fire" argument, which conveniently ignores the fact no steel building in history has been struck by a 747 traveling at 500 MPH, either. Yet these types of tactics easily convince people like Round who already WANT to believe that there must be an alternative reason for such a tragic event.

[Donnyrotten]

Originally Posted by Fletch

The bottom line is that anyone who claims the government did it is automatically "realiable" in Round's book.

not one person...yet...has ever addressed persistant and VERIFIABLE reports that MOLTEN steel was found in the basements of all three buildings...i repeat...molten steel...even the history channel show last night interviewed an engineer who stated the EXACT same thing...weakened is one thing...melted is another...how did it melt.....anyone care to address that...NO ONE has yet....you guys are just like the commision,they didnt either

fact is,you cant account for ANYTHING in those towers that was hot enough to melt structural steel...until someone addresses that FACT...why argue

fact
1.no one on here has addressed it
2.the commision ignored it(because like you guys,they couldnt and wont address it either...thats Proof,something other than jet fuel and office fires was present in the towers


address this melted steel..or start slinging mud...which i suspect will be the best arguement anybody on here comes up with

[RQA]

What this thread is mainly useful is to demonstrate the warped psychology of the conspiracy nut and their favored strategies.

Most of which Roundhead demonstrates. For example:

Asks many questions....answers none

Dismisses actual scientists and credible authorities in favor of the self proclaimed expert

Accepts any of a number of contradictory explanations for an event except the most logical one.


Entertaining if nothing else

[lars]

Originally Posted by roundhead

not one person...yet...has ever addressed persistant and VERIFIABLE reports that MOLTEN steel was found in the basements of all three buildings...i repeat...molten steel...even the history channel show last night interviewed an engineer who stated the EXACT same thing...weakened is one thing...melted is another...how did it melt.....anyone care to address that...NO ONE has yet....you guys are just like the commision,they didnt either

fact is,you cant account for ANYTHING in those towers that was hot enough to melt structural steel...until someone addresses that FACT...why argue

fact
1.no one on here has addressed it
2.the commision ignored it(because like you guys,they couldnt and wont address it either...thats Proof,something other than jet fuel and office fires was present in the towers


address this melted steel..or start slinging mud...which i suspect will be the best arguement anybody on here comes up with

Roundhead, I will answer this by doing some research only if you answer all the questions to you first. I don't want to take the time when you ignore post after post.

[SBSpartan]

When you answer my questions round I will reply to yours.

PS - How did this "engineer" get close enough to the molten metal to say it was molten?

I used to ask this question all the time when I worked in industrial instrumentation. People would say crap like, "It over 500 degrees in that room. Will that thermometer hold up to that heat?" My response was, "Sure, but who are you going to send in to read it?"

Ummm one remote therm coming up Mr. Engineering genius. Thanks for letting me spec your project with common sense.

[Al Czervik]

Props to Dr. Greening.

Dr. Frank R. Greening to argue in support of government account of the events of September 11, 2001 at the National 9/11 Debate

The National 9/11 Debate is pleased to announce that Frank R. Greening Ph.D. has agreed to participate in the National 9/11 Debate on March 10, 2007 in Charleston, South Carolina. Frank R. Greening will be part of a seven-member debate team that will support the U.S. government’s official account of 9/11 events.

Frank R. Greening was born in London, England in 1947. He has a Ph.D. in physical chemistry and has carried out research in physics, chemistry, and materials science for 30 years in academic and industrial positions. He has published approximately 80 research reports and journal articles, including numerous articles supporting the government’s collapse sequence theories of World Trade Center Buildings 1 & 2.

While the 9/11 Commissioners and NIST scientists remain invited to participate in the National 9/11 Debate, the Muckraker Report has expanded the potential government debate team members to any qualified persons that are willing to publicly defend the government’s account of 9/11 against the opposing debate team already assembled. Dr. Greening is the first such expert that has agreed to debate members of Scholars for 9/11 Truth as well as other experts that oppose the government’s account of 9/11 to include Philip J. Berg, James H. Fetzer, David Ray Griffin, Steven E. Jones, George Nelson, Morgan Reynolds, and Judy D. Wood.
http://www.911blogger.com/2006/08/dr...ebate-911.html

[Donnyrotten]

Someone above quoted Leslie robertson,Chief Structural Engineer of the towers..and questioned the finding of "molten steel"....


well...read this..its short..and after reading this...be sure to look at the references at the bottom of the page....

http://stopthelie.com/molten_steel.html


maybe this will turn all you guys into believers once and for all

[SBSpartan]

Originally Posted by roundhead

Someone above quoted Leslie robertson,Chief Structural Engineer of the towers..and questioned the finding of "molten steel"....


well...read this..its short..and after reading this...be sure to look at the references at the bottom of the page....

http://stopthelie.com/molten_steel.html


maybe this will turn all you guys into believers once and for all

Answer my question round.

You have not answered one.

HOW DO YOU PULL MOLTEN STEEL FROM THE WRECKAGE WITHOUT THE MACHINES MELTING AND FAILING AND PEOPLE DIEING FROM THE HEAT?

O'Toole remembers in February seeing a crane lift a
steel beam vertically from deep within the catacombs of Ground Zero. 'It was dripping from
the molten steel," he said'" (Lin, 2002).

I want one of these indestructable cranes. And I want to talk to the people who got so close to the moltel steel at 2600 degrees and didn't ignite in flames.

Round - you have a problem. It might even be a mental disorder.

[Al Czervik]

Originally Posted by SBSpartan

Answer my question round.

You have not answered one.

HOW DO YOU PULL MOLTEN STEEL FROM THE WRECKAGE WITHOUT THE MACHINES MELTING AND FAILING AND PEOPLE DIEING FROM THE HEAT?

http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html

[Donnyrotten]

Originally Posted by SBSpartan

Answer my question round.

You have not answered one.

HOW DO YOU PULL MOLTEN STEEL FROM THE WRECKAGE WITHOUT THE MACHINES MELTING AND FAILING AND PEOPLE DIEING FROM THE HEAT?

there are plenty of pictures of cranes pulling it out of the rubble on the net..


you miss the point...you are concerned about how they would get it out..you arent and cant dispute its there...i could care less how they get it out..my concern is why its there in the first place...and you CANT deny it is

The FACT there is molten steel proves that charges were placed..as there is NOTHING else that can account for that hot of temperatures

so you say,how did the govt address these pools of molten steel...answer,they didnt address it at all,they ignore the fact entirely..read the commision report,it ignores this fact..because it cant be explained and still parrot the govt lie.so like many other things(like the construction of the towers)when they ran across something that didnt fit with their lie...they simly deny its existance and move on...this was done repeatedly,and is well pointed out with impeccable references in Griffin's.."9/11 Commision Report,Omissions and Distortions"

you guys starting to get the picture,you have been lied to by the govt about what happened that day.....just proving the existance of this molten steel makes anything the commision tells you about tower collapse a falsehood,as it is demonstratably(sp)false

[SBSpartan]

Originally Posted by roundhead

there are plenty of pictures of cranes pulling it out of the rubble on the net..


you miss the point...you are concerned about how they would get it out..you arent and cant dispute its there...i could care less how they get it out..my concern is why its there in the first place...and you CANT deny it is

The FACT there is molten steel proves that charges were placed..as there is NOTHING else that can account for that hot of temperatures

so you say,how did the govt address these pools of molten steel...answer,they didnt address it at all,they ignore the fact entirely..read the commision report,it ignores this fact..because it cant be explained and still parrot the govt lie.so like many other things(like the construction of the towers)when they ran across something that didnt fit with their lie...they simly deny its existance and move on...this was done repeatedly,and is well pointed out with impeccable references in Griffin's.."9/11 Commision Report,Omissions and Distortions"

you guys starting to get the picture,you have been lied to by the govt about what happened that day.....just proving the existance of this molten steel makes anything the commision tells you about tower collapse a falsehood,as it is demonstratably(sp)false

No I totally do not buy it was there. I simply went to the lowest common denominator thinking you would finally get it. Guess not.

Hot, red steel is not molten. Molten steel is well NOT solid.....so how the hell is that not just leaking everywhere?

God you people are stupid.



Yup it is pouring like a liquid. Funny how your pics don't show that happening isn't it?

Not to mention molten steel almost turns black yet your "molten steel" is bright red. Maybe cause it isn't molten.

[Dr. Robert]

Originally Posted by roundhead

remember that the second tower to be hit was dealt only a glancing blow,and the majority of the fuel was burned up "outside"the tower.

I haven’t the foggiest idea how you can make this claim if you’ve ever seen the video of the plane hitting the tower.

You mention the History Channel documentary that aired last night. I watched it, too. Did you watch the part that showed computerized cutaways of what the planes likely did to the interiors of the towers? Multiple floors destroyed? Huge pieces of the support structure completely destroyed? Did you see that?

Your other argument about the firefighters “knowing the towers weren’t going to collapse”: how could they possibly know what was going on 78 floors up? How is this proof of a conspiracy?

[Fletch]

Originally Posted by Al Czervik

http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/hotSlag.jpg
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/...-Sillechia.JPG

http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/peering.jpg
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html

Al, I expect Round to be a clueless lemming on this sort of thing, but I expect better from you.

Conspiracy sites like to bring up molten steel found 6 weeks after the buildings fell to suggest a bomb must have created the effect. The explanation doesn't go into the amount of explosive material needed because it would be an absurd amount. There is another explanation which is more plausible.

"Molten steel must mean the government knocked down the towers" theory is completely debunked (in mind numbing scientific detail) here:

http://http://www.debunking911.com/m...eel.htm#molten

Round, please proceed with ignoring these expert opinions and sticking only to your conspiracy theory websites to get your education on these issues.

[Fletch]

Originally Posted by Dr. Robert

I haven’t the foggiest idea how you can make this claim if you’ve ever seen the video of the plane hitting the tower.

You mention the History Channel documentary that aired last night. I watched it, too. Did you watch the part that showed computerized cutaways of what the planes likely did to the interiors of the towers? Multiple floors destroyed? Huge pieces of the support structure completely destroyed? Did you see that?

Here's the second building being dealt a "glancing blow."

http://www.debunking911.com/021104-13Bb.gif