tOfficial WTC Conspiracy Thread

[Spartan Fan1]

Originally Posted by greenjoker

There is a guy running in the Dem. primary against Patrick Leahy for the Democratic Senator Seat in Vermont just stated that he has info. that Bush, Cheney and others staged the 9/11 attacks. His name is Hill. He brings up the fact that action wasn't taken before the attacks and other inept actions, etc. Interesting.

[Solomon]

Originally Posted by Tim*Mello

I wouldn't say that they actually initiated the attacks, but if they had knowledge of the attacks they may have sat on the info....letting the attacks unfold in order to have an excuse to invade Iraq. That I wouldn't dismiss so quickly.

Thought you moved to another country .

[Tim*Mello]

No, I said I'd like to move to another country. It's better that I diffuse my political angst here instead of else where.

[Al Czervik]

I know I am going to get run off of the board for this thread, but this is honestly how I feel. Anyway, here is a post I made elsewhere yesterday. I thought the Wells Hall crew would enjoy swinging away at this:

I have been holding this in for a while and may even go on an a bigger rant thread about this when I am done with the book I told you about earlier...Crossing the Rubicon by Mike Ruppert. I am halfway through it. It is absolutely devastating. I am going to get labeled wacko conspiracy theory guy, but I don't care anymore. I beg everyone to grab this book and at least read chapters 12 and 13, a mere thirty pages. There is absolutely no doubt that the upper levels of our intelligence community not only knew exactly what was coming on Sept. 11, they deliberately stopped investigations in order to ensure that the attacks occurred. Chapter 12 contains account after account of FBI field agents who busted their butts conducting investigations, writing memos and requesting to further investigate some of these guys to nail them because they knew these dudes were in training to crash planes. At most every turn, the agents were ignored, smeared or threatened when they tried to speak out. But for one exception (Colleen Rowley), all of their memos have been classified in the interest of national security and won't be released. Here is a little of the evidence:

FBI agent Robert Wright was hot on the money trail of terrorists. Wright is the only FBI agent to seize terrorist funds (over $1.4 million) from U.S.-based Middle Eastern terrorists using federal civil forfeiture statutes, prior to the September 11th attacks...

In a memorandum written 91 days before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, an FBI agent warned that Americans would die as a result of the bureau's failure to adequately pursue investigations of terrorists living in the country.

FBI Special Agent Robert Wright, Jr., who wrote the memo, led a four-year investigation into terrorist money laundering in the United States.

Wright began crying as he concluded his remarks at a Washington press conference Thursday.

"To the families and victims of September 11th - on behalf of [FBI Special Agents] John Vincent, Barry Carmody, and myself - we're sorry," Wright said before walking out of the room. Vincent and Carmody have also expressed a desire to expose information regarding alleged FBI missteps prior to Sept. 11.

Here is a report on Wright's press conference:

He uses words like "prevented," "thwarted," "obstructed," "threatened," "intimidated," and "retaliation" to describe the actions of his superiors in blocking his attempts to shut off money flows to Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups. These are not words of negligence. They are words describing deliberate and malicious actions.

Then there is the Minneapolis field office, which was on to Zacarias Massaoui for a long time. Just days before the attacks in early September, FBI agents in Minnesota wrote notes that subsequently became included in an internal FBI document warning that accused terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui "might be planning on flying something into the World Trade Center." They were begging to get into Moussaoui's computer, as Colleen Rowley details in her memo to the FBI director:

I feel at this point that I have to put my concerns in writing concerning the important topic of the FBI's response to evidence of terrorist activity in the United States prior to September 11th. The issues are fundamentally ones of INTEGRITY and go to the heart of the FBI's law enforcement mission and mandate. Moreover, at this critical juncture in fashioning future policy to promote the most effective handling of ongoing and future threats to United States citizens' security, it is of absolute importance that an unbiased, completely accurate picture emerge of the FBI's current investigative and management strengths and failures.

To get to the point, I have deep concerns that a delicate and subtle shading/skewing of facts by you and others at the highest levels of FBI management has occurred and is occurring. The term "cover up" would be too strong a characterization which is why I am attempting to carefully (and perhaps over laboriously) choose my words here. I base my concerns on my relatively small, peripheral but unique role in the Moussaoui investigation in the Minneapolis Division prior to, during and after September 11th and my analysis of the comments I have heard both inside the FBI (originating, I believe, from you and other high levels of management) as well as your Congressional testimony and public comments.

Here is the remainder of the memo:
http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020603/memo.html

There is also the infamous Phoenix memo:

According to Newsweek and the New York Times, FBI agents in Phoenix submitted a classified memorandum in July naming Osama bin Laden and tracking the activities of possible Middle Eastern terrorist suspects who had enrolled in local flight schools. The memo, according to the Times, stated bin Laden's followers "could use the schools to train for terror operations." The information in the Phoenix memo was not shared with FBI field agents in Minnesota who had uncovered other startling evidence.

Of course, that memo has never been released to the public.

Finally, on May 19, 2002, former FBI Agent Tyrone Powers, stated on radio station KISS 98.7 that he has credible evidence suggesting that the Administration did in fact allow the Sept. 11 attacks to further a hidden agenda.

- Chapter 13 of Crossing the Rubicon is more of the same, only it deals with all of the specific warnings from international agencies of what was coming. The bottom line is that the defense of "we had no idea terrorists wanted to do this" is garbage.

- I am just getting into the meat and potatoes of the air traffic command and control chapters and how there were procedures in place up to June 2001 to easily deal with intercept of planes within a couple of minutes. Payne Stewart's flight was a prime example. For some reason, NORAD scramble procedures were transferred to Donald Rumsfeld in June of 2001. And did you know that there were multiple live-fly war games exercises coincidentally going on during the morning of Sept. 11, some of which were practicing for what happens in a hijack situation? Here is a report on that, as it pertains to the 9/11 Commission:

Immediately before Commissioner Gorelick began her allotted time for questioning the generals, a member of the audience yelled out, "Ask about the war games that were planned for 9/11." Another audience member followed his lead:

"Tell us about the war games."

These audience member comments were published in the Associated Press transcript of the hearings.

http://wid.ap.org/transcripts/040617...sion911_1.html

At this point, tension filled the room. Shortly into the questioning, one of the audience members who had just bellowed at the commission stood up and shouted; "This is an outrage! My questions are not being answered, and I'm walking out!"

He was carrying an American flag as he was escorted out.

He must have realized the war games were not going to be addressed in any meaningful fashion. This outburst, though clearly audible, was omitted from the Associated Press transcript. It seems that this outburst may have been what prompted Commissioner Tim Roemer to throw the one & only softball question about the exercises at General Eberhart later in the hearings. It's regrettable that the protester didn't shout one or two of his questions before being escorted out, but his passionate gesture was helpful in its own way.

Kyle Hence of 9/11 CitizensWatch asked Commissioner Gorelick why fighter jets weren't scrambled from Andrews Air Force base. Mr. Hence stated that, to his knowledge, at least 3 fighters from Andrews were performing exercises over 200 miles away on that morning. This left Washington DC defenseless on 9/11. When asked how that could possibly be allowed, Commissioner Gorelick would not comment.

When asked if the commission had ever addressed the multiple war games running on 9/11, and who was in charge of coordinating them, Chairman Kean responded, "Yes, we did, it wasn't a coordination, there were a number of them going on as there are periodically but they were not, and they helped in one way because there were people available who wouldn't have been available otherwise."

When following up for clarification on whether there was an individual in charge of coordinating these drills, Chairman Kean replied, "No, I don't think so. You might want to check with staff on that."

Staff Communication director Jonathan Stull, after being asked the same line of questions repeatedly, has stated he is "looking into this." Mr. Stull later stated, "This is an issue that the Commission is looking into and will address in the final report." We shall see how far into this they look.

So much for the government's position that they had no idea people would hijack planes and crash them. You may think the wargames exercises actually helped in the efforts to intercept hijacked planes as the military planes were already in the air, but the evidence shows that the military planes were being pimped and purposely diverted to their exercises so that they were out of reach of quick intercepts and so the exercises confused the military pilots on Sept. 11 because they had no idea on radar what was a real hijack and what was fake.

- Let's look at the stock trades issue. You may recall that right after Sept. 11 there was much coverage in the news about large numbers of "put" options on stocks of companies directly affected by the Sept. 11 attacks. They include United Air Lines, American Air Lines, Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, AXA Reinsurance, Munich Reinsurance and Swiss Reinsurance. At the time, all of the investment gurus in the press came out and told us that this was a dumb move on the part of whoever made these trades because it would be easy to figure out who made them. There has been absolutely no follow up on this. For some reason, the press and investment community is unwilling to reveal this information.

- Of course, there are the obligatory Bush/bin Laden, Saudi/U.S. ties.

- Then, we have some other funky occurrences. WTC 7 was not struck by an aircraft at all, and yet it collapsed perfectly within its own footprint late in the day on 9/11. Its tenants included the Internal Revenue Service, the Secret Service, the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Mayor's office of Emergency Management and the CIA's New York Station. All of the evidence points to a collapse via controlled demolition. In fact, the owner of the buildings indicated in a PBS documentary about the 9/11 events that he received a phone call from the New York City Fire Department on that day. The chief told him that it would be best for everyone if they "pulled" down WTC-7 via a controlled demolition. So why does the FEMA report say it came down because of fire? If it was brought down by demolition, who had the time and inclination during the chaotic day of 9/11 to go in and wire up the building for demolition? It doesn't make any sense.

- You also have the strange Pentagon situation. Like I have said in other posts, there is a lot of bull**** flying around the internet. Much of it is junk. But, as you know, all we have ever seen of the Pentagon crash is those five still photos which are so blurry you can't discern anything other than a fireball. The conspiracy stuff regarding the Pentagon may be rubbish, but I would like some more information to disprove it. Apparently, the FBI confiscated the videos of the nearby Sheraton, gas station, and Virginia Dept. of Transportation cameras. Why won't they release them? Philip Zelikow of the 9/11 Commission states that there is no need:

"Asked if there were unreleased photographs of the attack that would convince the doubters, Zelikow, of the 9/11 commission, said, 'No.'"

- Did you know that the Chief of Pakistani intelligence (approved for his position by the CIA) ordered a $100,000 wire transfer to lead hijacker Mohammed Atta? Pakistani intelligence and our agencies have a very close relationship, so it is almost unbelievable that we didn't know about this. It is also odd that this Pakistani General Ahmad had breakfast on Capitol Hill on the morning of 9/11!

- The war on terror, better understood as the war for oil, was dreamed up well before 9/11. The blueprints come in part from Zbigniew Brzezinski's The Grand Chessboard, written in 1997, which indicates:

"The attitude of the American public toward the external projection of American power has been much more ambivalent. The public supported America's engagement in World War II largely because of the shock effect of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. (pp 24-5)"...
"Eurasia is the globe's largest continent and is geopolitically axial. A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world's three most advanced and economically productive regions. A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa's subordination, rendering the Western Hemisphere and Oceania geopolitically peripheral to the world's central continent. About 75 per cent of the world's people live in Eurasia, and most of the world's physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil. Eurasia accounts for 60 per cent of the world's GNP and about three-fourths of the world's known energy resources."

Then there is the Project For A New American Century's plans:

The Project for the New American Century (PNAC), published a report in September 2000 recommending policies for preserving and expanding U.S. dominance in world affairs, including an aggressive policy for deposing Saddam Hussein. Members of this group include Vice President Dick Cheney, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, convicted Iran-Contra perjurer and current National Security Council (NSC) staffer Elliot Abrams, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and I. Lewis Libby, Cheney's chief of staff and assistant for national security affairs.

Referring to the Persian Gulf region the report states, "Indeed, the United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein."

The crux of the report advocates bulking up America's military so it can be "able to rapidly deploy and win multiple simultaneous large-scale wars." It lists southern Europe, the Middle East, Central- and East Asia as targets for increased military deployments.

There is so much other good **** in this Crossing the Rubicon book. The Chapter on "Silencing Congress" will make you . And before everyone comes up in here and says, "well wouldn't the Bush hating media have exposed this by now?"...the author addresses that. For the most part, while everyone bickers over whether the media is liberal or conservative, it is mostly corporate controlled and the analysis is not that hard-hitting. And when it comes to the media commenting on our intelligence agencies, it is frightened to screw with them.

I haven't yet read the chapters on the 9/11 Commission Report, but I did skim it, and it explains why this Commission isn't exactly independent. For the most part, the victims' families aren't buying the 9/11 Commission's version of events. The victims' families tendered 400 questions to the Kean Commission, and most have gone unanswered. Since all efforts at getting to the bottom of the attacks have been ignored thus far, the families recently filed a citizens complaint with the New York Attorney General. I am sure that will go nowhere. If there is anyone for whom our government should be bending over backwards and answering their questions, isn't it these families?

Some other questions I have include:
- Why did the Bush administration fight the creation of a 9/11 Commission?
- Why can't we see the entire report of Cheney's national energy policy?
- Where the hell is the CIA's 9/11 report that was apparently completed in the summer that reportedly names and blames people for 9/11?
- Just out of curiosity, how the hell did Mohammed Atta's passport survive that fireball?

I apologize if I have offended anyone with this post. I know a lot of this hits close to home with people. I had a family tie to this thing, too. Luckily, my sister was late on her way to work in Manhattan...got out of the subway stop, saw the second plane hit the second tower...and had the presence of mind to just hightail it back to Brooklyn before all transporation in and out of Manhattan was shut down. Much of the information sounds crazy when you are first faced with it. But, digest it and look into some of this on your own.

All I know is that something stinks like hell, and we're not being told the full story. There is a reason that a recent poll indicates that 49% of New Yorkers feel that high officials knew about the attacks in advance and consciously failed to take action and that 66% think that the 9/11 case should be reopened by Congress. If something had happened to my sister, I would be leading the 9/11 truth brigade. Bet your bottom dollar that nothing will happen with these investigations in the next four years. These families are getting a raw deal.

Oh yeah, motive. It's simple. At a world population of 6.5 billion and growing, many leaders acknowledge that there just won't be enough finite resources to go around. The key resource here is oil. It is the basis of all our transportation, the means by which we mass produce food, and a feedstock for almost every product. Well, the top petroleum geologists say that it is going to go into permanent, irreversible decline in a few years:




The bottom line is that I am absolutely convinced at this point that there was government complicity in 9/11. You have to read Ruppert's book. It is a little disjointed and the first 100 pages are dry, but after that you won't be able to put it down. You can definitely skip around to the chapters you want to read first. Some of the language about fascism, Empire and New World Order may turn people off, but people need to keep their eyes focused on the evidence. It is one of the most well documented books you will ever read. It will also disturb the hell out of you. If nothing else, at least read Chapters 12 and 13 regarding warnings from domestic and foreign intelligence agencies.

Knowing how valuable oil is to our way of life, you may even think that it is worth going to war for -- part of me agrees with that. I just don't think 3,000 people had to die on 9/11 in order to go to war, and I don't like being lied to by my leaders regarding the purpose of the war.

[sloth]

Bushwick - while I still think yer absolutely ****ing ...

nice post.

I do not think that there is any doubt that the Iraq war is primarily about oil and leverage in the Middle East. in that regard, the Iraq war is prolly well worth fighting, frankly. as fer 9/11, however, I do not think that the WTC tragedy wuz necessary to justify the war effort in Iraq, and I therefore have a hard time believing that any government would sacrifice the lives of 1,000's of innocent civilians. not to mention the tremendously negative impact on our domestic economy, which impact will be felt fer several years.

in all seriousness, on purely pragmatic grounds - allowing the planes to crash wuz not necessary to justify the war effort, and put our economy at serious risk. in that sense,it would really take a smoking gun fer me to ever believe that our government permitted 9/11 to happen.

[LoneWolfSparty®]

Originally Posted by sloth

Bushwick - while I still think yer absolutely ****ing ...

nice post.

I do not think that there is any doubt that the Iraq war is primarily about oil and leverage in the Middle East. in that regard, the Iraq war is prolly well worth fighting, frankly. as fer 9/11, however, I do not think that the WTC tragedy wuz necessary to justify the war effort in Iraq, and I therefore have a hard time believing that any government would sacrifice the lives of 1,000's of innocent civilians. not to mention the tremendously negative impact on our domestic economy, which impact will be felt fer several years.

in all seriousness, on purely pragmatic grounds - allowing the planes to crash wuz not necessary to justify the war effort, and put our economy at serious risk. in that sense,it would really take a smoking gun fer me to ever believe that our government permitted 9/11 to happen.

Props to sloth for actually reading this sludge.

[LoneWolfSparty®]

Originally Posted by dwags

When Clinton lied, nobody died.

This is the single most gay chant in the history of chants!

[tTito]

Where does Lee Harvey Oswald fit in to all of this?

[sloth]

Originally Posted by dwags

WMD's, no wait, Saddam Hussein, no wait, bringing democracy, no wait.....


When Clinton lied, nobody died.

Thanks, and have a nice day.

I am a pragmatic man. I therefore do not care what reason Bush or any other President gives me fer any action, since I like to consider myself within that portion of society who is capable of discerning the real motivation. in that respect, I think Bush wuz right to go to war with Iraq - we need the leverage in the Middle East, we need the oil, and Iraq quz an easily justifiable target.

all I said is that we dint need to permit any people to die here in the US and put our economy at risk to end up with troops in Iraq, and I think that, fer all their very many faults and evils, Cheney and crew are smart and savvy enuf to recognize that.

[TripleGreen]

Originally Posted by dwags

WMD's, no wait, Saddam Hussein, no wait, bringing democracy, no wait.....


When Clinton lied, nobody died.

Thanks, and have a nice day.

The following is a list of dead people connected with Bill Clinton:

James McDougal - Clinton's convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent
heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken
Starr's investigation.

Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a
Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder happened just after she was
to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.

Vince Foster - Former white House counselor, and colleague of Hillary
Clinton at Little Rock's Rose law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the
head, ruled a suicide.

Ron Brown- Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have
died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation
reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown's skull resembling a
gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and
spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors.

Barbara Wise - Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown
and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her
bruised nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of
Commerce.

Charles Meissner - Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang
special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.

C. Victor Raiser II & Montgomery Raiser. Major players in the Clinton fund
raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992.

Paul Tulley - Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead
in a hotel room in Little Rock, September 1992. Described by Clinton as a
"Dear friend and trusted advisor".

Ed Willey- Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods
in Virginia of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey
died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped
her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in
several Clinton fund raising events.

Jerry Parks - Head of Clinton's gubernatorial security team in Little Rock.
Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock.
Park's son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He allegedly
threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were
mysteriously removed from his house.

James Bunch - Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a
"Black Book" of people containing names of influential people who visited
prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas.

James Wilson - Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide.
He was reported to have ties to Whitewater.

Kathy Ferguson - Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson died in May
1994 was found dead in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was
ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she
was going someware. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with
BillClinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible
corroborating witness for Paula Jones.

Bill Shelton - Arkansas state Trooper and fiancee of Kathy Ferguson.
Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancee, he was found dead in June,
1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the gravesite of his
fiancee.

Gandy Baugh - Attorney for Clinton friend Dan Lassater died by jumping out
a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug
distributor.

Suzanne Coleman - Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was
Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head,
ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.

Paula Grober - Clinton's speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until
her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.

Jon Parnell Walker - Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp.
Jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony August
15, 1993 Was investigating Morgan Guarantee scandal.

Dr. Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care
Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane
crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton's advisory council
personally treated Clinton's mother, stepfather and brother.

Stanley Huggins - Suicide. Investigated Madison Guarantee. His report was
never released.

Hershell Friday - Attorney and Clinton fund raiser died March 1, 1994 when
his plane exploded.

Barry Seal - Drug running pilot out of Mena Arkansas, died when his car hit
a utility pole.

Johnny Lawhorn Jr. - Mechanic, found a check made out to Clinton in the
trunk of a car left in his repair shop.

Florence Martin - Accountant sub-contractor for the CIA related to the
Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. Died of three gunshot wounds.

Danny Casolaro - Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and
Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparent
suicide in the middle of his investigation.

Paul Wilcher - Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with
Casolaro and the 1980 "October Surprise" was found dead on a toilet June
22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet
Reno 3 weeks before his death.

Kevin Ives & Don Henry - Known as "The boys on the track" case. Reports
say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena, Arkansas airport drug
operation. Controversial case where initial report of death was due to
falling asleep on railroad track. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been
slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died
before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.

THE FOLLOWING SIX PERSONS HAD INFORMATION ON THE IVES / HENRY CASE:
Keith Coney - Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck
July, 1988
Keith McMaskle - Died stabbed 113 times, Nov, 1988
Gregory Collins - Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.
Jeff Rhodes - He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in
April 1989.
James Milan - Found decapitated. Coroner ruled death due to natural causes.
Jordan Kettleson - Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup
truck in June 1990.
Richard Winters - Was a suspect in the Ives / Henry deaths. Was killed in a
set-up robbery July 1989

THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE DEAD
Major William S. Barkley Jr.
Captain Scott J. Reynolds
Sgt. Brian Hanley
Sgt. Tim Sabel
Major General William Robertson
Col. William Densberger
Col. Robert Kelly
Gary Rhodes
Steve Willis
Robert Williams
Conway LeBleu
Todd McKeehan

[TripleGreen]

Originally Posted by dwags

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TG, you don't mind if I don't debate you, you're simple, and well, kind of boring.
!

I dont' seek conversation with you Dwags. Don't flatter yourself. I was just pointing out the comical irony of your repeated attempts of juxtaposing Bush and Clinton. And to be completely honest, your opinion that I'm "simple" and "boring" truly means a great, great, GREAT deal coming from the "when Clinton lied, nobody died" guy. Knowing your kind, you probably have that as a proud bumper sticker on your minivan.

Short but partisanly pointless. You definitely have a way with words. Kudos.

[Bob Sakimano]

I'm certain the bu$h admini$tration is lying to the public about 9/11, too...

I admire your voracity and applaud your committment to the truth, BUT, if you have the time to read all that, you should really consider getting a hobby, dude..

[Fla. Spartan 79]

Gosh I can hardly believe what I'm reading. Bush supporters actually facing the truth about this war. I guess this means that probably GWB did lie to the american public and this war is an oil grab and nothing more. Welcome to reality folks.

[Servo]

:blah:

[Al Czervik]

Interesting article that sums up my thoughts:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/st...480940,00.html

I knew most of this info, but not the part about the fact that firefighters insist that 3 of the 4 WTC crash black boxes were found, while the government denies it. The author is right:

Two men who worked extensively in the wreckage of the World Trade Center claim they helped federal agents find three of the four "black boxes" from the jetliners that struck the towers on 9/11 - contradicting the official account.

Both the independent 9/11 Commission and federal authorities insist that none of the four devices - a cockpit voice recorder (CVR) and flight data recorder (FDR) from the two planes - was ever found. But New York City Firefighter Nicholas DeMasi has written in a book self-published by Ground Zero workers that he took federal agents on an all-terrain vehicle in October 2001 and located three of the four. His account is backed by a well-known Ground Zero volunteer.
http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/...0033802.htm?1c

A 9-11 rescue worker recently came forward to say he was told by FBI agents to “keep my mouth shut” about one of the “black boxes” a fellow firefighter helped locate at ground zero, contradicting the official story that none of the flight and cockpit data recorders were ever recovered in the wreckage of the World Trade Center (WTC) towers.

Honorary firefighter Mike Bellone claims he was approached by unknown bureau agents a short time after he and his partner, Nicholas DeMasi, a retired New York firefighter, found three of the four “black boxes” among the WTC rubble before January 2002.
http://www.911citizenswatch.org/modu...rticle&sid=430

What is our government hiding from us? Why was a guy who wired $100,000 (Pakistan's head of intelligence) to Mohammed Atta eating breakfast on Capitol Hill on 9/11? Why can't we find out who made all of the put options on United and American Airlines before the attacks? Why did WTC 7 collapse on the afternoon of 9/11 when it wasn't struck by an airplane? Why did its owner say it was demolished, but the FEMA report says otherwise? Why have we never seen any video of a plane hitting the Pentagon, even though it is possibly the most guarded building in the world? How did the hijacker who allegedly made that 270 degree spin and swoop move into the Pentagon do that when he was such a bad pilot that he could not fly a Cessna a month earlier when he tried to rent a plane? How did Flight 93 debris spread out over miles when the plane supposedly flew straight into the ground? Why were FBI agents shut down at every turn in their investigations of the hijackers? Why were specific international warnings about suicide hijackings ignored? Who coordinated the war games that were going on that morning, which paralyzed our air defense systems? Why is FBI translator Sibel Edmons subject to a gag order regarding her knowledge of 9/11?

"the process of transformation, even if it brings about revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a New Pearl Harbor."
http://tinyurl.com/d3jpc