How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[xfrodobagginsx]

If it's been covered then you should shouldn't have any problem calling the bible what it is...God's word.

[Scully60]

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

If it's been covered then you should shouldn't have any problem calling the bible what it is...God's word.

This is a university-related web site Frodo. This is not the baptist church web site. Don't bring your ignorance here. This is for educated people.

[xfrodobagginsx]

What you just said was...Don't bring the truth to a university? Did you know that the only text book in the schools for a hundred years was the bible? Did you know that most universities were started by Christians?

[Scully60]

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

What you just said was...Don't bring the truth to a university? Did you know that the only text book in the schools for a hundred years was the bible? Did you know that most universities were started by Christians?

Link?

[xfrodobagginsx]

I will get some info for you if that will help. No time now, but soon...

[IndoSpartan]

Originally Posted by Scully60

This is a university-related web site Frodo. This is not the baptist church web site. Don't bring your ignorance here. This is for educated people.

Hi Scully,

Here’s something for those folks who are “m, n, o,...” and are more focused on scholars and theologians and what they write than their creator. You could even read Philippians chapter one because I am hearing arrogance and pride in your posts. I do agree with you we need to read the Bible and listen to what the Lord is saying and respond humbly to others.

Philippians 3

1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things again is no trouble to me, and it is a safeguard for you.
2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision;
3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,
4 although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more:
5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee;
6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.
7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ.
8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,
9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;
11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;
16 however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.
17 Brethren, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us.
18 For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ,
19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;
21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.


From Acts
13 Now as they observed the confidence of Peter and John and understood that they were uneducated and untrained men, they were amazed, and began to recognize them as having been with Jesus. 14 And seeing the man who had been healed standing with them, they had nothing to say in reply. 15 But when they had ordered them to leave the Council, they began to confer with one another, 16 saying, “What shall we do with these men? For the fact that a noteworthy miracle has taken place through them is apparent to all who live in Jerusalem, and we cannot deny it. 17 “But so that it will not spread any further among the people, let us warn them to speak no longer to any man in this name.” 18 And when they had summoned them, they commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. 19 But Peter and John answered and said to them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to give heed to you rather than to God, you be the judge; 20 for we cannot stop speaking about what we have seen and heard.” 21 When they had threatened them further, they let them go (finding no basis on which to punish them) on account of the people, because they were all glorifying God for what had happened; 22 for the man was more than forty years old on whom this miracle of healing had been performed.
23 When they had been released, they went to their own companions and reported all that the chief priests and the elders had said to them. 24 And when they heard this, they lifted their voices to God with one accord and said, “O Lord, it is You who MADE THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH AND THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM, 25 who by the Holy Spirit, through the mouth of our father David Your servant, said,
‘WHY DID THE GENTILES RAGE,
AND THE PEOPLES DEVISE FUTILE THINGS? 26 ‘THE KINGS OF THE EARTH TOOK THEIR STAND,
AND THE RULERS WERE GATHERED TOGETHER
AGAINST THE LORD AND AGAINST HIS CHRIST.’ 27 “For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur. 29 “And now, Lord, take note of their threats, and grant that Your bond-servants may speak Your word with all confidence, 30 while You extend Your hand to heal, and signs and wonders take place through the name of Your holy servant Jesus.” 31 And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness.

I have read all the posts on this thread and some folks sound like they would do well on the Council. Get your millstones out...

[Scully60]

Many people have a vague notion that all the original biblical texts are preserved in vaults somewhere, and translators work from those original texts. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. The earliest surviving versions of the gospels are handwritten copies dating from centuries after the original texts were written. Also, we don't just have a single version of each gospel; we have many versions, and even more fragments. The trouble is, none of the versions agree with each other. There are more points of disagreement between manuscripts than there are words in the Gospels. So which one is right? How can one tell what the original authors intended?

[IndoSpartan]

He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.
Thomas Jefferson

“So which one is right? How can one tell what the original authors intended?”

I read different versions of the Bible and do comparisons. 2 Timothy 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a

I look at cultural context, historical relevancy, and pray that I can understand and apply. Sometimes later when I read it I see something “new” or different than the first time... ever learning.

What is the percentage of documents that were written at the time and those that have survived time? Guess we can be thankful some people took the effort to write things down. My daughter cranks out tons of pictures and they are true and accurate to her. They are beautiful to her parents. Some of her pictures of the same thing look different. Most of her art does not survive one day! ;-) Artists painting the same picture don’t always have the same results. Listening to a political candidate people sometimes hear different things... maybe both valid. Perhaps the manuscripts are capturing different perspectives?

“None of the versions” agree with each other? So they are totally different and disagree with each other? Can you give us some examples? Are any of these so huge that they threaten your faith?

Defending the Inerrancy and Canon of Scripture

Innerancy and the Church Fathers - The PuritanBoard

[Scully60]

Originally Posted by IndoSpartan

“None of the versions” agree with each other? So they are totally different and disagree with each other? Can you give us some examples? Are any of these so huge that they threaten your faith?

Let me go off the top of my head as to different versions, which in fact, made it into the canon. This goes back to the idea that the Bible is "God's word". If God is omnipotent (all-powerful) and omniscient (all-knowing), why are there two creation stories in Genesis 1 & 2 that are different and mutually exclusive? Doesn’t this all-knowing God know how the earth was created?

Do you know there are two texts in the Bible, where two different soldiers kill Goliath (one being David)? Doesn’t God know who killed Goliath?

Again, the Bible is a human creation.

[IndoSpartan]

[QUOTE=Scully60;4465454][QUOTE=IndoSpartan;4459982]“None of the versions” agree with each other? So they are totally different and disagree with each other? Can you give us some examples? Are any of these so huge that they threaten your faith?

Let me go off the top of my head as to different versions, which in fact, made it into the canon. This goes back to the idea that the Bible is "God's word". If God is omnipotent (all-powerful) and omniscient (all-knowing), why are there two creation stories in Genesis 1 & 2 that are different and mutually exclusive? Doesn’t this all-knowing God know how the earth was created?

Do you know there are two texts in the Bible, where two different soldiers kill Goliath (one being David)? Doesn’t God know who killed Goliath?

Again, the Bible is a human creation.

Hi Scully60,

Wow, great questions... time to get the rust out of my head. Okay here's a link about the seemingly different creation stories.

Genesis and ancient Near Eastern stories of Creation and the Flood: an introduction - ChristianAnswers.Net

As far as David and Goliath. David killed Goliath and Elhanan killed Goliath's brother.

Who Killed Goliath in your Bible?

Instead of me doing a whole mess of apologetics on the Christian faith, I'm sure you are aware there is some good material already out there. Have you read "The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict"? There are probably better books than this and others may want to chime in.

Amazon.com: The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict Fully Updated To Answer The Questions Challenging Christians Today: Books: Josh McDowell

The thing is I don't think you will find anyone that disgrees with you on man's ability to screw things up... even religion... theories... government... What the original Hobbit was writing about was not about religion but relationship. Applying the Word of God to our life and actually seeing God act, having a purpose (outside of the movie "The Jerk"). I am a scientist by education/training, God did some big things to get my attention (show's how stubborn I was) and now I believe. Never been happier.

I feel sad for Atheists because by choice they choose not to believe in a life hereafter. Doing the math there is a probability for everything but they choose to say, "no thank you." What do they lose if they try to believe?

Thanks for the questions!

[Scully60]

[QUOTE=IndoSpartan;4466130][QUOTE=Scully60;4465454]

Originally Posted by IndoSpartan

“None of the versions” agree with each other? So they are totally different and disagree with each other? Can you give us some examples? Are any of these so huge that they threaten your faith?


Hi Scully60,

Wow, great questions... time to get the rust out of my head. Okay here's a link about the seemingly different creation stories.

Genesis and ancient Near Eastern stories of Creation and the Flood: an introduction - ChristianAnswers.Net

As far as David and Goliath. David killed Goliath and Elhanan killed Goliath's brother.
Who Killed Goliath in your Bible?

Instead of me doing a whole mess of apologetics on the Christian faith, I'm sure you are aware there is some good material already out there. Have you read "The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict"? There are probably better books than this and others may want to chime in.

Amazon.com: The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict Fully Updated To Answer The Questions Challenging Christians Today: Books: Josh McDowell

The thing is I don't think you will find anyone that disgrees with you on man's ability to screw things up... even religion... theories... government... What the original Hobbit was writing about was not about religion but relationship. Applying the Word of God to our life and actually seeing God act, having a purpose (outside of the movie "The Jerk"). I am a scientist by education/training, God did some big things to get my attention (show's how stubborn I was) and now I believe. Never been happier.

I feel sad for Atheists because by choice they choose not to believe in a life hereafter. Doing the math there is a probability for everything but they choose to say, "no thank you." What do they lose if they try to believe?

Thanks for the questions!

"...seemingly different creation stories." The first creation story was (1.1-2.3) probably written in the 500's BCE. Commonly called the "priestly" or "P" story, it is part of a larger block of material extending through the Pentatuch and reflecting priestly and ritual concerns. The second was written earlier. It begins in Genesis 2.4 and continues through the end of chapter 3. Perhaps written in the 900's BCE, it is commonly called the "Yahwist" or "J" creation story, because the author uses "Yahweh" as the name of God. The Yahwist story is also part of a larger narrative account of Isreal's origins that extends throughout much of the Pentatuch. The two stories are quite different. [Borg: Reading the Bible Again for the First Time, pp. 63]


"David killed Goliath and Elhanan killed Goliath's brother." Then there is Elhanan, a soldier who killed Goliath in 2 Samual 21. So who really killed Goliath? Probably not David, who may have killed another Philistine who was later called Goliath. The King James translators of 1611 tried to cover up the discrepency by inserting the word "brother of" before the second mention of Goliath, but older texts do not bear that version out. In other words, after David was famous, the authors of the Hebrew scriptures may have tried to dress up David's military exploits with a few embellishments. [Davis: Don't Know Much About the Bible, pp. 177]

[spartarules]

Do you clowns believe in the tooth fairy and Santa as well?

This thread is frightening.

-I'll let you in on a secret, shhh, the bible is fiction you lunatics.

Don't care where you get your faith, just don't claim it as reality if it's a book. Hobbits may take over the world!11111111111111

[IndoSpartan]

Originally Posted by spartarules

Do you clowns believe in the tooth fairy and Santa as well?

This thread is frightening.

-I'll let you in on a secret, shhh, the bible is fiction you lunatics.

Don't care where you get your faith, just don't claim it as reality if it's a book. Hobbits may take over the world!11111111111111

I feel your pain spartarules...

[IndoSpartan]

[QUOTE=Scully60;4469413][QUOTE=IndoSpartan;4466130]

Originally Posted by Scully60

"...seemingly different creation stories." The first creation story was (1.1-2.3) probably written in the 500's BCE. Commonly called the "priestly" or "P" story, it is part of a larger block of material extending through the Pentatuch and reflecting priestly and ritual concerns. The second was written earlier. It begins in Genesis 2.4 and continues through the end of chapter 3. Perhaps written in the 900's BCE, it is commonly called the "Yahwist" or "J" creation story, because the author uses "Yahweh" as the name of God. The Yahwist story is also part of a larger narrative account of Isreal's origins that extends throughout much of the Pentatuch. The two stories are quite different. [Borg: Reading the Bible Again for the First Time, pp. 63]


"David killed Goliath and Elhanan killed Goliath's brother." Then there is Elhanan, a soldier who killed Goliath in 2 Samual 21. So who really killed Goliath? Probably not David, who may have killed another Philistine who was later called Goliath. The King James translators of 1611 tried to cover up the discrepency by inserting the word "brother of" before the second mention of Goliath, but older texts do not bear that version out. In other words, after David was famous, the authors of the Hebrew scriptures may have tried to dress up David's military exploits with a few embellishments. [Davis: Don't Know Much About the Bible, pp. 177]

So we disagree on the two stories being different or similar. Can you provide me a link to the texts that are different and yet older than KJV on the killing of Goliath. I don't have an extensive library here in Aceh. Always trying to learn something. You know us lunatics. ;-)

[xfrodobagginsx]

It was goliath's brother, not goliath:


2Sa 21:19 And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam. {Jaareoregim: or, Jair}

1Ch 20:5 And there was war again with the Philistines; and Elhanan the son of Jair slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, whose spear staff was like a weaver's beam. {Jair: also called, Jaareoregim}

[xfrodobagginsx]

Science and the bible:

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

[Scully60]

Malone argues for admission of expert testimony (5th day):
There is never a duel with the truth. The truth always wins and we are not afraid of it. The truth is no coward. The truth does not need the law. The truth does not need the force of government. The truth does not need Mr. Bryan. The truth is imperishable, eternal and immortal and needs no human agency to support it. We are ready to tell the truth as we understand it and we do not fear all the truth that they can present as facts. We are ready. We are ready. We feel we stand with progress. We feel we stand with science. We feel we stand with intelligence. We feel we stand with fundamental freedom in America. We are not afraid. Where is the fear? We meet it, where is the fear? We defy it, we ask your honor to admit the evidence as a matter of correct law, as a matter of sound procedure and as a matter of justice to the defense in this case. (Profound and continued applause).

Scopes Trial Home Page - UMKC School of Law

[xfrodobagginsx]

We also stand on the truth of the word of God.

[Frank Ricard]

I could only read the first 2 pages of this thread. Very painful.

Have any of you Christians ever thot why you disagree about when a person is "saved" and when they're not? You guys can't even agree on that - which is it? Baptism saves you, or no it doesn't?

Has it ever occured to you that if there really was a god that exists like its defined by MEN in a book, that god would get the fundementals right without any confusion at all? Instead we have people arguing over whether you have to be dunked in water or not and that our eternal souls rest in the balance of this debate. If you're wrong, then it's literally the hell with you. You're telling me if I'm not dunked, I go to hell? Or don't I? Is this a chance I want to take? THE VERY FACT YOU CHRISTIANS ARE DEBATING THIS IS PROOF THAT YOU'RE ALL WRONG!

You can't even come up with the definition of when you're OK with some god. This goes beyond laughable. It's sad that people even fall for this crap of lies, deception, misstatements founded on myths and misguided ancient MYTHS

What's the old saying? Something to the effect of "God created man in his own image and we returned the favor"

[Scully60]

Ultimately, the Bible is a book of faith, not history, biography, science, or even philosophy. The question I pose may be an affront to people who still believe the Bible is the unquestionable "Word of God." But for centuries, scholars and thinkers, many of them devout believers, have been raising legitimate doubts about the Bible. People of faith shouldn't fear these inquiries. How strong is a faith that can't stand up to a few honest questions?
[Davis: Don't Know Much About The Bible, p. xxiii]

[Frank Ricard]

Originally Posted by Scully60

Ultimately, the Bible is a book of faith, not history, biography, science, or even philosophy. The question I pose may be an affront to people who still believe the Bible is the unquestionable "Word of God." But for centuries, scholars and thinkers, many of them devout believers, have been raising legitimate doubts about the Bible. People of faith shouldn't fear these inquiries. How strong is a faith that can't stand up to a few honest questions?
[Davis: Don't Know Much About The Bible, p. xxiii]

The answer devout Christians give to questions is by saying that "the wisdom of God confounds the wisdom of men". It's referring to some verses in the New Testament (Corinthians?) where it talks about this. What they fail to realize, this answer is something that only a cult would come up with - it's a way of dealing with a question without answering the question. What makes this answer great is that it can be quoted as a response to an infinite number of questions - again, a trait that would be associated to a cult. They don't get that Christianity didn't start off as a new relgion, it started as a cult and EVOLVED to where it is today. It's still at its core a cult.

When Christians try to answer our questions, we're all supposed to respond with an "AHHH, now I get it", then chant 'the wisdom of God confounds the wisdom of men' 3 times, click our heals, rub some beads and all those evil questions just magically disappear.

[IndoSpartan]

Originally Posted by Frank Ricard

The answer devout Christians give to questions is by saying that "the wisdom of God confounds the wisdom of men". It's referring to some verses in the New Testament (Corinthians?) where it talks about this. What they fail to realize, this answer is something that only a cult would come up with - it's a way of dealing with a question without answering the question. What makes this answer great is that it can be quoted as a response to an infinite number of questions - again, a trait that would be associated to a cult. They don't get that Christianity didn't start off as a new relgion, it started as a cult and EVOLVED to where it is today. It's still at its core a cult.

When Christians try to answer our questions, we're all supposed to respond with an "AHHH, now I get it", then chant 'the wisdom of God confounds the wisdom of men' 3 times, click our heals, rub some beads and all those evil questions just magically disappear.

Sorry, what were the questions?

[Frank Ricard]

Originally Posted by IndoSpartan

Sorry, what were the questions?

I know you're joking, but allow me to vent

Why are there 2 creation stories in Genesis? Didn't God get it right the first time? And does he always have to repeat himself? Yes, we might be dumb and all, but it would help if the God that the fundementalist want us to believe in could at least stick to one version of the event for the sake of us dumb asses down here trying to survive.

Why did God create controversy right from the beginning of His book? Couldn't he have ordained a book that didn't have any contradictions until a little later? Makes me question if the book is really of God right from the get go.

Why did it take 300 years after Christ's ressurection for God to make up his mind to decide which books are directly attributable to his revalation? How many people during that time went to hell because the way to accept His salvation wasn't totally agreed upon because the writing hadn't been canonized yet.

Why have a book at all when the overwhelming majority of people in the world at the time were illiterate? Not just in the Middle East, but everwhere. Even during the middle ages, peasants relied on their priests to explain the scriptures to them, because most of them couldn't understand the writings. And many of the same priests used their position of power over these poor people by making them pay for every f'n thing they had in order to make sure their sins were covered. So my question is - Why did God use a book that could be interpreted many different ways and manipulated by unscrupulous people and not use another means of communication that everyone could understand?

I still haven't figured out if I need to be dunked with water in order to go heaven or if my faith alone is good enough, if I had any. Christians argue over this, so they can't even definatively agree on what a person has to do to be saved. So which is it? Simple questions deserves simple answers.

Even the most fundemental aspect of Christianity (as simple as when are we really Christians in God's eyes?) really just lead to more questions. If we take the Bible literally as God's Word, a lot of people are going to hell simply because they misunderstood even the most basic tenants of the faith. And I'm suppossed to believe this crap? My eternal soul rests on whether I interpret whether God wants me to get dunked or not? Instead of writing in criptic codes that can be interpreted several ways, why doesn't he help me out some and just f'n tell me, if he is who he says he is. Give me a f'n break.


I could go on an on with questions, but the answer by fundamentalist Christians will always be "the wisdom of God confounds the wisdom of men."

[IndoSpartan]

Originally Posted by Frank Ricard

I know you're joking, but allow me to vent

Why are there 2 creation stories in Genesis? Didn't God get it right the first time? And does he always have to repeat himself? Yes, we might be dumb and all, but it would help if the God that the fundementalist want us to believe in could at least stick to one version of the event for the sake of us dumb asses down here trying to survive.

Why did God create controversy right from the beginning of His book? Couldn't he have ordained a book that didn't have any contradictions until a little later? Makes me question if the book is really of God right from the get go.

Why did it take 300 years after Christ's ressurection for God to make up his mind to decide which books are directly attributable to his revalation? How many people during that time went to hell because the way to accept His salvation wasn't totally agreed upon because the writing hadn't been canonized yet.

Why have a book at all when the overwhelming majority of people in the world at the time were illiterate? Not just in the Middle East, but everwhere. Even during the middle ages, peasants relied on their priests to explain the scriptures to them, because most of them couldn't understand the writings. And many of the same priests used their position of power over these poor people by making them pay for every f'n thing they had in order to make sure their sins were covered. So my question is - Why did God use a book that could be interpreted many different ways and manipulated by unscrupulous people and not use another means of communication that everyone could understand?

I still haven't figured out if I need to be dunked with water in order to go heaven or if my faith alone is good enough, if I had any. Christians argue over this, so they can't even definatively agree on what a person has to do to be saved. So which is it? Simple questions deserves simple answers.

Even the most fundemental aspect of Christianity (as simple as when are we really Christians in God's eyes?) really just lead to more questions. If we take the Bible literally as God's Word, a lot of people are going to hell simply because they misunderstood even the most basic tenants of the faith. And I'm suppossed to believe this crap? My eternal soul rests on whether I interpret whether God wants me to get dunked or not? Instead of writing in criptic codes that can be interpreted several ways, why doesn't he help me out some and just f'n tell me, if he is who he says he is. Give me a f'n break.


I could go on an on with questions, but the answer by fundamentalist Christians will always be "the wisdom of God confounds the wisdom of men."

Hey Frank,

I'll do what I can on your questions. I live in a rain forest and the Internet is not working so well here. I have a language lesson in an hour so need to go eat lunch now. Can I get back to you? Venting is ok. I'll say up front that my responses will be mine alone, I can't speak for everyone. Everyone has different opinions and beliefs... even Atheists I imagine. It is even true in science.

[xfrodobagginsx]

Team believes it found Noah's Ark
Returns from Iranian mountain with petrified wood, marine fossils

Posted: June 30, 2006
1:00 am Eastern

© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com



A 14-man crew that included evangelical apologist Josh McDowell says it returned from a trek to a mountain in Iran with possible evidence of the remains of Noah's Ark.
The group, led by explorer Bob Cornuke, found an unusual object perched on a slope 13,120 feet above sea level.
Cornuke, president of the archeological Base Institute and a veteran of nearly 30 expeditions in search of Bible artifacts and locations, said he is cautiously, but enthusiastically, optimistic about the find.

Some of the team's photos can be seen here.
Also on the team were Barry Rand, former CEO of [COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif][COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif]Avis[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]; Boone Powell, former CEO of Baylor Medical Systems; and Arch Bonnema, president of Joshua Financial.
The team returned with video footage of a large black formation, about 400 feet long ? the length of the ark, according to the Bible ? that looks like [COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif][COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif]rock[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] but bears the image of hundreds of massive, wooden, hand-hewn beams.
Bonnema observed: "These beams not only look like petrified wood, they are so impressive that they look like real wood ? this is an amazing discovery that may be the oldest shipwreck in recorded history."
The team said one piece of the blackened rock is "cut" at 90-degree angle.
Sealed with pitch
Even more intriguing, they said, some of the wood-like rocks tested this week proved to be petrified wood.
It's noteworthy, they pointed out, that the Bible recounts Noah sealed his ark with pitch, a black substance.
When the retrieved pieces were cut open, a marine fossil was discovered. In the area around the object, the team found thousands of fossilized sea shells, and Cornuke brought back a one-inch thick rock slab replete with fossilized clams.
With the discovery of wood splinters and broken pottery at the remote 15,300-foot level, the team says it also found evidence that ancients considered it an important worship site for hundreds, if not thousands of years.
Cornuke became involved in the search for the ark after meeting Apollo 15 astronaut James Irwin, participating with him in several searches on [COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif][COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif]Mount [/FONT][COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif]Ararat[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] in Turkey, but with disappointing results.
Cornuke began looking elsewhere, after finding clues in the Bible such as Genesis 11's reference to descendants of Noah coming to the Mesopotamian valley from the east. Cornuke believes that would put the biblical mountains of Ararat somewhere in northern Iran.
He also points to ancient historians such as Nicholas of Damascus and Flavius Josephus who wrote, just before and after Christ, that timbers of the ark had survived in the higher mountains of present-day Iran.
Cornuke noted that during World War II, an American Army officer and road construction engineer in Iran named Ed Davis said he saw the ark on a high mountain in the country after being led there by Iranian friends. After the war, according to Cornuke, Davis passed a lie detector test affirming he saw timbers from an ark-like object.
Before his death, Davis gave Cornuke a map showing the way to the object.
"It was right where Ed said it was in his map," Cornuke said. "After seeing it from a distance, I thought it at first unimpressive, but once we stood on the object we were all amazed at how it looked just like a huge pile of black and brown stone beams."
Noah tours
Cornuke's is the latest of many expeditions ? most of them at [COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif][COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif]Turkey's[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] Mount Ararat ? in search of Noah's Ark.
As WorldNetDaily reported, a new travel website is promoting summer [COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif][COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif]tours[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] to a Turkish site near Mount Ararat believed by many to be the fossilized remains of Noah's Ark.

Many believe this is Noah's Ark, already found on a mountain next to Mt. Ararat (courtesy: wyattmuseum.com)
Noah's Ark Holidays, which bills itself as an "ethical [COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif][COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif]travel[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] referral website" is behind the offer, with a pitch for the location in Dogubayazit, Turkey.
The late Ron Wyatt, whose Tennessee-based foundation, Wyatt Archaeological Research, also believed the ark is located at Dogubayazit, some 12-15 miles from Ararat.
Meanwhile, as WorldNetDaily reported in March, others who believe the vessel is on Ararat itself became excited with the release of a new, high-resolution digital image of what has become known as the "Ararat Anomaly."

Satellite image of 'Ararat Anomaly,' taken by DigitalGlobe's QuickBird Satellite in 2003 and made public for the first time in March 2006 (courtesy: DigitalGlobe)
The location of the anomaly on the mountain's northwest corner has been under investigation from afar by ark hunters for years, but it has remained unexplored, with the government of Turkey not granting any scientific expedition permission to explore on site.
In both the Old and New Testaments, the Bible speaks of Noah and the ark, and Jesus Christ and the apostles Paul and Peter all make reference to Noah's flood as an actual historical event.
According to Genesis, Noah was a righteous man who was instructed by God to construct a large vessel to hold his family and many species of animals, as a massive deluge was coming to purify the world which had become corrupt.

'Noah's Ark' by Pennsylvania artist Edward Hicks, 1846
Genesis 6:5 states: "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
Noah was told by God to take aboard seven pairs of each of the "clean" animals ? that is to say, those permissible to eat ? and two each of the "unclean" variety. (Gen. 7:2)
Though the Bible says it rained for 40 days and 40 nights, it also mentions "the waters prevailed upon the earth a hundred and fifty days."
The ark then "rested" upon the mountains of Ararat, but it was still months before Noah and his family ? his wife, his three sons and the sons' wives ? were able to leave the ark and begin replenishing the world. If you would like to sound off on this issue, participate in today's WND Poll.