How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Island of misfit toys · 08-06-2007, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susie Creamcheese

Up until this point this thread was just another harmless "go ye therefore and preach" thread to make those involved feel good about themselves doing Jesus' work. From my perspective it's better done here, where it can be glossed over and ignored than in the public square where it can be truly annoying.

But this post just went over the edge into the realm of UFO's and Art Bell. Are you telling us that you actually believe that these jokers died, went to heaven and returned to tell everyone what it's like?

Two things, first, it would appear you don't believe in the paranormal of which Christian spiritual experiences are one kind. Everything about the life of Christ and much about God's people from Adam to John the Revelator has been paranormal. I guess you think Chris Angel is just a huckster, huh? I have no doubt about worlds and forces beyond the abilities of science to 'capture' and many if not most non-Christians who would agree.

Secondly, there are tons of 'near death experiences' on record. What I have yet to study is a comparison of Christian NDEs to non-Christian NDEs. Now that I think about, my uncle had one that included many of the same experiences as others' (long shaft of white light, tremendous peace...) but his had no appearance of Jesus or angels.

Suzie, there is so much going on above and beyond that which is accepted as possible in a normal academic environment at a university. College was great, but then you have to learn about what's really happening.

Susie Creamcheese · 08-06-2007, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by '86

I guess you think Chris Angel is just a huckster, huh?

No, a skilled illusionist. Who do you think he is, Jesus redux?

Quote:

Secondly, there are tons of 'near death experiences' on record. What I have yet to study is a comparison of Christian NDEs to non-Christian NDEs. Now that I think about, my uncle had one that included many of the same experiences as others' (long shaft of white light, tremendous peace...) but his had no appearance of Jesus or angels.

I had a dream I died and went to heaven and saw Jesus; or maybe I actually did die; or maybe I went to Tahiti and it was Elvis and not Jesus. Study that.

Quote:

Suzie, there is so much going on above and beyond that which is accepted as possible in a normal academic environment at a university. College was great, but then you have to learn about what's really happening.

And you didn't learn much about the scientific method. When someone brings back an artifact from one of these "near deathers" let me know.

Island of misfit toys · 08-06-2007, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susie Creamcheese

No, a skilled illusionist. Who do you think he is, Jesus redux?I had a dream I died and went to heaven and saw Jesus; or maybe I actually did die; or maybe I went to Tahiti and it was Elvis and not Jesus. Study that.
And you didn't learn much about the scientific method. When someone brings back an artifact from one of these "near deathers" let me know.

You snot. I just told you that the scientific method isn't going to capture much of this. You certainly have the right to not believe. And technically, you also have the right to act like a bitch toward me because I do believe. But, I know people who don't believe in Jesus who still think it is good to respect people and be kind.

Island of misfit toys · 08-06-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hecklers

86 - Garth Brooks? Chris Angel? Are you a Christian or just a fan of pop culture?

I thought maybe you wouldn't know about my favorite soloist, Terry McAlmon or the miracle worker Todd Bentley.

xfrodobagginsx · 08-08-2007, 03:41 AM

'86,

There is a great book of an nde by a guy name Don Piper. It's called 90 minutes in heaven. This guy was a southern baptist preacher and he died and went to heaven for 90 minutes and came back and tells what he saw. He even came to my church. This book has sold over 1 million copies. It's very good.

Island of misfit toys · 08-08-2007, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

'86,

There is a great book of an nde by a guy name Don Piper. It's called 90 minutes in heaven. This guy was a southern baptist preacher and he died and went to heaven for 90 minutes and came back and tells what he saw. He even came to my church. This book has sold over 1 million copies. It's very good.

Yes, read it. That's the second NDE case of the three above.

xfrodobagginsx · 08-10-2007, 04:19 AM

It's a good book. I also have a link that I will post tommorrow. (can't find it now and I need to go to bed) gnite.

xfrodobagginsx · 08-11-2007, 11:16 PM

Here it is. A very interesting video about a guy who went to hell and back.

To Hell and Back, a study of NDE/OBE Near Death Experiences by Dr. Rawlings

xfrodobagginsx · 08-14-2007, 05:16 PM

Watch the above video, it is very interesting

xfrodobagginsx · 08-18-2007, 07:13 PM

Did you watch it?

xfrodobagginsx · 08-20-2007, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

Here it is. A very interesting video about a guy who went to hell and back.

To Hell and Back, a study of NDE/OBE Near Death Experiences by Dr. Rawlings

xfrodobagginsx · 08-21-2007, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

ToP · 08-21-2007, 01:56 AM

To everyone that participated, thanks for the read. I most identify with Susie Creamcheese as I was also "raised" in the faith and it just didn't take. I simply don't believe anything, other than the faith in "mainstream" Christianity just doesn't seem like truth to me. However, I think it's as wrong to minimize people's faith as it is to judge that one will go to hell because they're like me - simply a non-believer. I live and let live. I know that means '86, LWS and frodo think that means I'm not going to heaven - so be it. I didn't "choose" not to believe as my life with my family would have been a lot easier had I been able to take that path. Christian teachings just didn't speak to me as all I could see in religion was a God that knowingly created souls to damn them to hell. I don't reject the existence of God nor do I accept his existence. I simply don't know but don't believe my ignorance has any bearing on anything for me in this life or the afterlife, if there is one.

xfrodobagginsx · 08-23-2007, 01:57 PM

You have a wrong view of God. That is your problem. He didn't create man to send Him to hell. He created man to worship God and bless man with the highest honor. But He also, is testing man right now to see who will serve Him and who will not. By not choosing one way or the other, you are denying Him. It is your right and choice, but I hope for your sake that you change your mind.

Susie Creamcheese · 08-23-2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

You have a wrong view of God. That is your problem. He didn't create man to send Him to hell. He created man to worship God and bless man with the highest honor. But He also, is testing man right now to see who will serve Him and who will not. By not choosing one way or the other, you are denying Him. It is your right and choice, but I hope for your sake that you change your mind.

Or perhaps your view of God, where He has human frailties (the need for acceptance, to be worshipped, to test his creations and play little mind games, to be jealous, vindictive, arbitrary, etc.) is full of baloney. If He's the Supreme Being, he should act like one, instead of behaving like a petulant little beotch.

Island of misfit toys · 08-23-2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susie Creamcheese

Or perhaps your view of God, where He has human frailties (the need for acceptance, to be worshipped, to test his creations and play little mind games, to be jealous, vindictive, arbitrary, etc.) is full of baloney. If He's the Supreme Being, he should act like one, instead of behaving like a petulant little beotch.

Nothing to add. I'm going to get to that video soon, though.

FishHead · 08-23-2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by '86

Nothing to add. I'm going to get to that video soon, though.

You should not laugh at the ignorant you should enlighten them....

Island of misfit toys · 08-23-2007, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToP

To everyone that participated, thanks for the read. I most identify with Susie Creamcheese as I was also "raised" in the faith and it just didn't take. I simply don't believe anything, other than the faith in "mainstream" Christianity just doesn't seem like truth to me. However, I think it's as wrong to minimize people's faith as it is to judge that one will go to hell because they're like me - simply a non-believer. I live and let live. I know that means '86, LWS and frodo think that means I'm not going to heaven - so be it. I didn't "choose" not to believe as my life with my family would have been a lot easier had I been able to take that path. Christian teachings just didn't speak to me as all I could see in religion was a God that knowingly created souls to damn them to hell. I don't reject the existence of God nor do I accept his existence. I simply don't know but don't believe my ignorance has any bearing on anything for me in this life or the afterlife, if there is one.

I like your tone, ToP. But hey, I even like Suzie Buttermilk's tone, though hers is just a little special.

I don't know if you'll go to Heaven or not, ToP, for one thing, you aren't dead yet. Look at this:

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12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. - Romans

Soteriology is the study of salvation and it's not something I've worked through completely. The above passage references people who lived outside the influence of the Old Testament and without the knowledge of Christ. They aren't automatically going to hell, the Bible says they will be judged.

Today, it seems quite a few people will live and die without ever having much exposure to Christ or the Bible. I have no reason to believe they can't find the same favor as those Paul wrote about in this passage. Indeed, salvation for all people is by Christ, but in the case of these people, it appears it will be conferred postmortem.

CNN is doing this three night series on God's Warriors. It's interesting, I'd like to get copies so I can look at them very closely. I want to get whatever information from them that I can and also critique them for whatever biases or errors there may be. On thing seems apparent, 'religion' can create one hell of a mess. There is plenty of junk in Christianity just as there was in the first century Judaism that rejected it's Messiah. Christ is above the shortcomings of even those who name his name. On the other hand, personally, I'd like to look more into Islam and see whatever redemption may be there. Some Muslims are waiting for a 'hidden Imam', that sounds interesting to me. And, what can be said of Muslim women keeping themselves covered up instead of wearing T-backs or no panties at all- Muslims seem to have some purity that is lacking in the 'Christian' West. Personally, I need to look again for universal concepts of holiness wherever they can be found and to recognize the institutionalized un-Christ-like behavior in the Christian religion with which I generally identify.

All that to say this, God is the most beautiful, most awesome one. Nothing else matters compared to surrendering to and knowing and giving yourself for the love of God. Particularly if you experience it profoundly, it can ruin you for anything else.

Before people find Him and know Him, they are often turned off by purported followers of God. Sometimes the search for God takes a long, twisting path. I would like more to offer you right now to prove that God is but it seems that all I have is a testimony. God is very good, and Jesus is his son and our savior. Don't ask me all about their natures and relationship because I don't know. Don't let Christianity turn you off to Christ. You can read about Jesus in the four short gospels of the Bible. Angst and disappointment you may have is probably because of imperfect Christians, Christ himself is the best.