How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[Champ]

Originally Posted by '86

First I've heard that believing in life after death is insanity, too.

I was going to stay out of this, but you gotta be kidding. There is no rational basis for believing in life after death. Just wishful/wistful thinking.

Believe what you will, but don't assume others don't think you are misguided - at best.

[Island of misfit toys]

Originally Posted by Champ

I was going to stay out of this, but you gotta be kidding. There is no rational basis for believing in life after death. Just wishful/wistful thinking. I'd think it's more insane to be locked in your own unbelief, angry and envious of those who have reason to hope.

Believe what you will, but don't assume others don't think you are misguided - at best.

You've got your own opinions and that's fine. Try to get outside of them for a moment and look around at the world, this belief is widespread, mainstream and doesn't fit any standard definition of insanity.

We often use the phrase 'too good to be true' when we fear let down from hoping for something that could satisfy deep longings. You hear, 'it sounds too good to be true, but really it is not'. 'Wishful thinking' is usually applied to something contrived. I've experienced God as or through the Holy Spirit very profoundly in my lifetime. Undeniable experiences to which I'll ever be faithful. I experience God all the time but on a much lower level- it's a kind of spiritual off season for me, in part because I'm not involved with any church. There will be more of these profound experiences, however.

I haven't had an out of body experience yet. About them, I've only heard others speak. It's not just speakers on the church payroll having them either. And of course, there is the testimony of the Bible itself. Personally, I have a high degree of confidence in life after death and I've just provided rational reasons why- my own supernatural experiences of God, the testimony of others and the testimony of the Bible. It's too good to be true, Champ, but really it's not. For me, it would be extremely foolish and irrational to lay down this faith.

[xfrodobagginsx]

Right.

[xfrodobagginsx]

[xfrodobagginsx]

Opa!!!!

[xfrodobagginsx]

Hey '86, you still on here?

[FishHead]

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

Hey '86, you still on here?

He is at a Ahmajihadingbat rally, and a down with the Jews rally right after that, may be gone a few days....

[Island of misfit toys]

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

Hey '86, you still on here?

Yeah buddy, though I'm a little dirty right now from wrangling in politics. I don't know what to think of our Lord's church right now. I know he knows, I'm just not seeing the master plan. Your faithfulness heartens me.

[FishHead]

Originally Posted by '86

Yeah buddy, though I'm a little dirty right now from wrangling in politics. I don't know what to think of our Lord's church right now. I know he knows, I'm just not seeing the master plan. Your faithfulness heartens me.

"He" should be capitalized, heathen.....

[xfrodobagginsx]

Originally Posted by '86

Yeah buddy, though I'm a little dirty right now from wrangling in politics. I don't know what to think of our Lord's church right now. I know he knows, I'm just not seeing the master plan. Your faithfulness heartens me.

I can see it man. Look, before Jesus Christ comes back to this earth, there MUST be a falling away of the church in general. After the rapture, the anti-christ comes on the scene. It is getting worse and worse as the bible predicted it would.

[Island of misfit toys]

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

I can see it man. Look, before Jesus Christ comes back to this earth, there MUST be a falling away of the church in general. After the rapture, the anti-christ comes on the scene. It is getting worse and worse as the bible predicted it would.

I'm kind of a 'pan-millennialist', Frodo- it'll all pan out according to the Lord's plans.

Even amongst evangelicals, there are different interpretations of Revelation and whether or not the rapture and the second coming are two separate events. Some of the evidence that Revelation describes the period of the destruction of Israel in 70AD is very compelling. Some say Revelation describes the history of the last 2000 years. My favorite Bible teacher says Revelation should be read as many events, though revealed to John chronologically, events all happening simultaneously.

I just don't know. I've made attempts at it, I'm due for another one, but all I've really done is to learn some of the different possibilities. The Great Tribulation occurs, in a sense, in different places at different times throughout history- The Holocaust, Rwanda, Cambodia, Darfur, the Potato Famine, The Great Depression, the plagues- it occurs for the guy who ends up in prison to be regularly beaten, disrespected and made somebody's girlfriend; for children growing up in abusive homes; for the guy who jumped to his death from the World Trade Center towers. If we are looking at the sheer number of deaths as a percentage of the Earth's population, what surpasses the Great Flood?

Can anyone argue that things have been getting worse for the past 2000 years? I don't have a good grasp on history but America is a miracle land compared to anything anyone in previous generations could imagine. China surely appears much better off than she was 30 years ago- the church is flourishing, there is overall much more wealth and availability of essentials. I don't know that the world is necessarily darker than before. America, spiritually and morally, Europe too, now these surely have been in decline. But, we're still hanging onto an incredible legacy that has us sitting much better than civilizations in the past.

The nuclear issue? Well, 30 years ago, I couldn't even fathom a 2007. Things were looking pretty bad there a long time ago and it still hasn't happened yet. Not saying it won't, but that might be the only real argument for saying things are worse now than they've ever been.

A wise Bible teacher did teach me one thing, the gospel is a message of hope. Whatever temporal things may be at hand, ours is a message of the good God, of his resurrected Son and our living Lord, of glorious Heavens of which no man can conceive, of life everlasting, of the indwelling comforter and peace that passes understanding. That's right, isn't it?

[xfrodobagginsx]

Originally Posted by '86

I'm kind of a 'pan-millennialist', Frodo- it'll all pan out according to the Lord's plans.

Even amongst evangelicals, there are different interpretations of Revelation and whether or not the rapture and the second coming are two separate events. Some of the evidence that Revelation describes the period of the destruction of Israel in 70AD is very compelling. Some say Revelation describes the history of the last 2000 years. My favorite Bible teacher says Revelation should be read as many events, though revealed to John chronologically, events all happening simultaneously.

I just don't know. I've made attempts at it, I'm due for another one, but all I've really done is to learn some of the different possibilities. The Great Tribulation occurs, in a sense, in different places at different times throughout history- The Holocaust, Rwanda, Cambodia, Darfur, the Potato Famine, The Great Depression, the plagues- it occurs for the guy who ends up in prison to be regularly beaten, disrespected and made somebody's girlfriend; for children growing up in abusive homes; for the guy who jumped to his death from the World Trade Center towers. If we are looking at the sheer number of deaths as a percentage of the Earth's population, what surpasses the Great Flood?

Can anyone argue that things have been getting worse for the past 2000 years? I don't have a good grasp on history but America is a miracle land compared to anything anyone in previous generations could imagine. China surely appears much better off than she was 30 years ago- the church is flourishing, there is overall much more wealth and availability of essentials. I don't know that the world is necessarily darker than before. America, spiritually and morally, Europe too, now these surely have been in decline. But, we're still hanging onto an incredible legacy that has us sitting much better than civilizations in the past.

The nuclear issue? Well, 30 years ago, I couldn't even fathom a 2007. Things were looking pretty bad there a long time ago and it still hasn't happened yet. Not saying it won't, but that might be the only real argument for saying things are worse now than they've ever been.

A wise Bible teacher did teach me one thing, the gospel is a message of hope. Whatever temporal things may be at hand, ours is a message of the good God, of his resurrected Son and our living Lord, of glorious Heavens of which no man can conceive, of life everlasting, of the indwelling comforter and peace that passes understanding. That's right, isn't it?

I am a pre-millenialist. I believe that the rapture will come, then the anti-Christ will come on as a world dictator, then after 7 years of tribulation the Lord will return with His saints (us) and rule and reign as King of kings and Lord of lords...but not before He beats the crap out of the anti-christ and satan.

[chachi]

Jesus Christ and Allah... is this Buddah forsaken thread still going on?

[FishHead]

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

I am a pre-millenialist. I believe that the rapture will come, then the anti-Christ will come on as a world dictator, then after 7 years of tribulation the Lord will return with His saints (us) and rule and reign as King of kings and Lord of lords...but not before He beats the crap out of the anti-christ and satan.

I think you better dust off your Bible and start reading, because what you are saying you believe in is not what it says in the Bible

[Island of misfit toys]

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

I am a pre-millenialist. I believe that the rapture will come, then the anti-Christ will come on as a world dictator, then after 7 years of tribulation the Lord will return with His saints (us) and rule and reign as King of kings and Lord of lords...but not before He beats the crap out of the anti-christ and satan.

Pre-trib, pre-millennialist. I know you are, I know that end-times sequence. I'm just saying I've considered some of the various scenarios Christian fundamentalists subscribe to. Can't say I've got it figured out myself.

[Island of misfit toys]

Originally Posted by FishHead

I think you better dust off your Bible and start reading, because what you are saying you believe in is not what it says in the Bible

Pharisee. None of the Bible's teachings about love, kindness, humility, patience... You prance around here like a queen talking about the Bible and yet all of it's essential teachings escape you. You show up on this thread, tell this man he is mistaken, tell him he is crazy, and that's it. I much prefer the company of many unbelievers with simple social graces that a self-righteous agitator like yourself. What are you good for?

[Island of misfit toys]

Originally Posted by chachi

Jesus Christ and Allah... is this Buddah forsaken thread still going on?

This thread goes on until you call out to the Heavens for the living Lord Jesus Christ to come into your heart, cleanse you of sin and to save you.




Damn it, man, it's the eighth page already, what are you waiting for?

[chachi]

Originally Posted by '86

This thread goes on until you call out to the Heavens for the living Lord Jesus Christ to come into your heart, cleanse you of sin and to save you.

Damn it, man, it's the eighth page already, what are you waiting for?

Jesus comes to me for salvation.

[FishHead]

Originally Posted by '86

Pharisee. None of the Bible's teachings about love, kindness, humility, patience... You prance around here like a queen talking about the Bible and yet all of it's essential teachings escape you. You show up on this thread, tell this man he is mistaken, tell him he is crazy, and that's it. I much prefer the company of many unbelievers with simple social graces that a self-righteous agitator like yourself. What are you good for?

Show me the word "rapture" or anything about it in the Bible, anything....Quit going around spewing false teachings, and total misinterpretations. This entire thread is a cluster ****. Go off and praise evil dictators, and condemn whole countries some more quack.

Also, show me where I miss the Bibles teachings, one link bud.

[Island of misfit toys]

Originally Posted by chachi

Jesus comes to me for salvation.

[Island of misfit toys]

Originally Posted by FishHead

Alright, just to be fair, I don't know any Biblical mandates about being stupid. Show me the word "rapture" or anything about it in the Bible, anything Did I ever say I believed in a rapture? ....Quit going around spewing false teachings, and total misinterpretations. Which? Be very specific. This entire thread is a cluster ****. Then why are you here? Go off and praise evil dictators Everybody and his mother has at least learned that Ahmadinjed answers to people and is hardly a dictator, evidently there was just one last person who needed to get it. , and condemn whole countries some more quack. Condemn whole countries...you mean like launch military stikes against Iran which held mass, spontaneous vigils for the victims of 9/11, if there are enough tools like you with the right to vote?

Also, show me where I miss the Bibles teachings, one link bud.

17And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him. - Colossians 3:17

4...and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. - Ephesians 5:4

About all I do on this board is to explore, discuss, debate and share. All you do is troll and make smart-alecky remarks. If you weren't such a jerk, and you thought you had a better understanding of the end-times, all you had to do is engage Frodo in a conversation. But, you are such a jerk, it's doubtful that you know much of anything, so all you do is condemn him and hit the road.

[FishHead]

Originally Posted by '86

About all I do on this board is to explore, discuss, debate and share. All you do is troll and make smart-alecky remarks. If you weren't such a jerk, and you thought you had a better understanding of the end-times, all you had to do is engage Frodo in a conversation. But, you are such a jerk, it's doubtful that you know much of anything, so all you do is condemn him and hit the road.

Thats just how I roll, bitch! Also, there is no debating the rapture, or a seven year rule by satan, that is not true, so why debate it, its like talking with kids, you tell them its wrong, and hope it sticks. Your 42 paragraph posts are not read, or understood, its not debating, its boring, and imho, completely wrong.

[Island of misfit toys]

Originally Posted by FishHead

Thats just how I roll, bitch! Also, there is no debating the rapture, or a seven year rule by satan, that is not true, so why debate it, its like talking with kids, you tell them its wrong, and hope it sticks. Your 42 paragraph posts are not read, or understood, its not debating, its boring, and imho, completely wrong.

Well, roll on with your bad self, then.

[xfrodobagginsx]

Originally Posted by FishHead

Thats just how I roll, bitch! Also, there is no debating the rapture, or a seven year rule by satan, that is not true, so why debate it, its like talking with kids, you tell them its wrong, and hope it sticks. Your 42 paragraph posts are not read, or understood, its not debating, its boring, and imho, completely wrong.

This is an example of ignorant arrogance.

[mavdoc8]

I'm getting a rash by just reading this thread. The devil must be inside of me.