How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[xfrodobagginsx]

ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN?

THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT YOU SHOULD KNOW:

1. REALIZE THAT YOU ARE A SINNER AND IN NEED OF A SAVIOR:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

This all began with the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect, there was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain which this world sees is the result of sin.

2. BECAUSE OF OUR SINS, WE DIE BOTH SPIRITUALLY AND PHYSICALLY, BUT GOD SENT HIS SON TO TAKE OUR PUNISHMENT AND GIVE US A CHANCE NOT TO HAVE TO GO TO HELL.

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Even if we lie one time, the punishment is hell, which is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already committed a sin which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the president can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die.

3. IF WE WILL ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS OUR LORD WITH OUR MOUTHS AND BELIEVE IN OUR HEARTS THAT HE ROSE FROM THE DEAD, BY DOING THIS WE ARE RECEIVING HIM:

Ro 10:9,10 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: {power: or, the right, or, privilege}
(KJV)

You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus and asking Him to forgive you for your sins and save you. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven if they do these things, but the bible says that there is only one way to heaven and that is through receiving what Jesus Christ did on the cross for you.

Will you do that today? If you will, you can be 100% sure that you will go to heaven when you die.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD FOR YOUR SINS? DO YOU ACCEPT WHAT HE DID FOR YOU TO PAY FOR YOUR SINS?

4. If you are willing to receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior please pray this right now, from your heart to God,

"Dear LORD JESUS, I believe that YOU died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. I ask you to come into my heart and forgive me for my sins, take me to heaven when I die. I now receive You as my Lord and Savior. Thank You for saving me. In Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you prayed that prayer from your heart to God, and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven when you die.

Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.

[xfrodobagginsx]

Baptism does not save. It is an outward expression of faith AFTER salvation.

[Todd Farkman]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfSparty®

Note: You are not saved until you are baptized for the remission of your sins, otherwise this is a great post.

Are upi a baptist?

[Golfnut]

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN?

THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT YOU SHOULD KNOW:

1. REALIZE THAT YOU ARE A SINNER AND IN NEED OF A SAVIOR:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

This all began with the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect, there was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain which this world sees is the result of sin.

2. BECAUSE OF OUR SINS, WE DIE BOTH SPIRITUALLY AND PHYSICALLY, BUT GOD SENT HIS SON TO TAKE OUR PUNISHMENT AND GIVE US A CHANCE NOT TO HAVE TO GO TO HELL.

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Even if we lie one time, the punishment is hell, which is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already committed a sin which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the president can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die.

3. IF WE WILL ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS OUR LORD WITH OUR MOUTHS AND BELIEVE IN OUR HEARTS THAT HE ROSE FROM THE DEAD, BY DOING THIS WE ARE RECEIVING HIM:

Ro 10:9,10 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: {power: or, the right, or, privilege}
(KJV)

You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus and asking Him to forgive you for your sins and save you. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven if they do these things, but the bible says that there is only one way to heaven and that is through receiving what Jesus Christ did on the cross for you.

Will you do that today? If you will, you can be 100% sure that you will go to heaven when you die.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD FOR YOUR SINS? DO YOU ACCEPT WHAT HE DID FOR YOU TO PAY FOR YOUR SINS?

4. If you are willing to receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior please pray this right now, from your heart to God,

"Dear LORD JESUS, I believe that YOU died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. I ask you to come into my heart and forgive me for my sins, take me to heaven when I die. I now receive You as my Lord and Savior. Thank You for saving me. In Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you prayed that prayer from your heart to God, and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven when you die.

Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.

jesus

[msufan]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfSparty®

Note: You are not saved until you are baptized for the remission of your sins, otherwise this is a great post.

Wow. Totally not true.

[Island of misfit toys]

Originally Posted by msufan

Wow. Totally not true.

Agreed. LWS, it would be a irresponsible to derail a proclamation to the lost into infighting amongst Christians over doctrine. There is a time and place for everything and this is not the time. Great OP.

[Saint Joey]

If you wanna get to heaven let me tell you how
Keep your hand on the gospel plow
Hold on, hold on, hold on
Mary had a golden chain
Every link spelled Jesus' name
Hold on, hold on, hold on
Mary had a golden chain
Hold on
If you wanna get to heaven let me tell you how
Keep your hand on the gospel plow

Waking up without you now I'm on my own
Coming down the sky burns into my soul
And I wanna know that you're mine
I gotta know you're mine

Come on back tomorrow said you'll be all right
I'll never find the way now to kill the time

And I wanna know what's in your mind
I gotta know you're mine

And I fell alone
And my dreams are torn

You're not at all
Not at all
Not at all
Who you say you are
Gotta know
Gotta know
Gotta know where
You're going
Waking up without you girl...

[Spartan Al]

Oh - thinkin' about all our younger years
There was only you and me
We were young and wild and free

Now nothin' can take you away from me
We bin down that road before
But that's over now
You keep me comin' back for more

Baby you're all that I want
When you're lyin' here in my arms
I'm findin' it hard to believe
We're in heaven
And love is all that I need
And I found it there in your heart
It isn't too hard to see
We're in heaven

Oh - once in your life you find someone
Who will turn your world around
Bring you up when you're feelin' down

Ya - nothin' could change what you mean to me
Oh there's lots that I could say
But just hold me now
Cause our love will light the way

N' baby you're all that I want
When you're lyin' here in my arms
I'm findin' it hard to believe
We're in heaven
And love is all that I need
And I found it there in your heart
It isn't too hard to see
We're in heaven

I've bin waitin' for so long
For something to arrive
For love to come along

Now our dreams are comin' true
Through the good times and the bad
Ya - I'll be standin' there by you

[John Deere]

Q - How do you get into heaven?

A - Depends which suburb of heaven you are trying to get into.

My personal preference is the repent, believe, and live a consistent life suburb.

I'm staying away from the suicide bomber "Twelve Virgins" suburb.

[Enrico Palazzo]

Got a picture of your house
And you're standing by the door
It's black and white and faded
And it's looking pretty worn

See the factory that I worked
Silhouetted in the back
The memories are grey
but man they're really coming back

I don't need to be the king of the world
As long as I'm the hero of this little girl

Heaven isn't too far away
Closer to it every day
No matter what your friends might say

How I love the way you move
And the sparkle in your eyes
There's a color deep inside them
Like a blue suburban sky

When I come home late at night
And you're in bed asleep
I wrap my arms around you
So I can feel you breathe

I don't need to be a superman
As long as you will always be my biggest fan

CHORUS
Heaven isn't too far away
Closer to it every day
No matter what your friends might say
We'll find a way (Yeah!)

Now the lights are going out
Along the boulevard
The memories come rushing back
And it makes it pretty hard

I've got nowhere left to go
And no one really cares
I don't know what to do
But I'm never giving up on you

CHORUS

[Jack78]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfSparty®

So you're advocating getting wet for no reason other than to outwardly express faith? Sorry but Luke 16:16 is pretty clear.

Maybe you meant Mark 16:16.

[Enrico Palazzo]

Originally Posted by Jack78

Maybe you meant Mark 16:16.

Nice one Jack!

[Jack78]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfSparty®

You're the last person I ever expected to correct me on a biblical mistake!

Yet you never answered this question ==> Literal Word?

... which is key, 'cause if you studied the origins of the Bible you'd know that the ending of Mark (16:9-20) is widely believed to be of questionable authenticity by biblical scholars re: the versions widely used today vs. the oldest, and believed most accurate, manuscripts.

[Druidblue]

I didn't know hobbits were so religious!

[xfrodobagginsx]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfSparty®

So you're advocating getting wet for no reason other than to outwardly express faith? Sorry but Luke 16:16 is pretty clear.

Sorry but Jesus was pretty clear when the thief on the cross merely asked Him to remember Him and Jesus replied "today you will be with me in paradise" BTW the guy wasn't baptized. Secondly, of all of the dozens of verses that deal with salvation, few even meantion baptism. Third, the ones that do aren't necessarily talking about water baptism as the "baptism saves" crowd assumes.


1Co 1:17 ¶ For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Baptism is NOT the gospel. FYI the gospel is what saves. Baptism follows salvation.


Baptism does NOT save.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

This verse doesn't say that baptism saves. Look at the explanation of the verse. That which is born of flesh is flesh (water represents fleshly birth, the mother's womb contains water), that which is born of Spirit is spirit (Spiritual birth)

Mr 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. {for: or, unto}

Lu 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

As far as baptism saving you, it is the baptism of repentence that saves, not water baptism. The baptism is an outward showing of what happens when you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior. It is NOT salvation, nor is it part of it. It is a believer's act of obedience.

Mr 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
(KJV)

Look at this verse. At first glance it appears as though baptism saves. But it says "He that believeth not shall be damned." He is not damned for not being baptized.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
(KJV)

The baptism being talked about is a good concience toward God not water baptism. It says "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh" but what? "a good conscience toward God"

Here are verses regarding Salvation:

Ac 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Where is baptism mentioned here for Salvation?

1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. {words: or, speech}
(KJV)

What did it just say?

Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Where is baptism mentioned here?

Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Where is baptism mentioned here?

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

It says it is by grace through faith, not baptism.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(KJV)

It says whosoever believeth in Him. Where is baptism meantioned here?

If baptism were necessary for salvation surely it would have been mentioned in these important passages.

You cannot possess the Holy Ghost unless you are saved right?

Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

They were already saved and possessed the Holy Ghost and they had not been baptized yet.

Ga 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Where is baptism mentioned here?

Mr 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

I believe that some of those verses that you believe are talking about water baptism are actually talking about being baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Ro 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Baptism is not mentioned here.

Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

The Door is Jesus Christ. We enter in by accepting Him.

Re 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

We open the door by receiving Him, what He did on the cross for us to pay for our sins. Baptism is an act of obedience. It is a public profession of faith.

Lu 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

This theif couldn't be baptized and Jesus Christ told him what? Today thou shalt be with me in paradise. Because He asked Jesus to save him. He received what Jesus did for Him.

Ac 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

What was the requirement for Him to be baptized? He has to believe. Baptism is for believer's only. Believer's are already Saved.

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

If believing means that you know that you have eternal life, where is baptism mentioned here?

It is very clear that baptism is NOT for salvation but an act of obedience. It is an ordinaince just as communion is.

[Jack78]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfSparty®

...
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

How can you read that verse and not get that baptism is essential. Except a man be born of WATER AND of the Spirit?? Doesn't get any plainer.

...

Baptism and John 3:5

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." 4Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?" 5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7"Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' 8"The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit," (John 3:3-8).

There are five basic interpretations to this section of scripture in reference to water.

1. The water refers to the natural birth.
2. The water refers to the Word of God.
3. The water refers to the Holy Spirit.
4. The water refers to the ministry of John the Baptist.
5. The water refers to the water of baptism as a requirement for salvation.

The first option looks to the context of Jesus' words dealing with being born "again" (3:3). Nicodemus responds by mentioning the experience of being born from the womb (v. 4). Jesus then speaks of water and the Spirit and then says, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (3:6). The implication is that the first birth is the natural birth and the second birth is the spiritual birth. In other words, the water refers to the water of the womb -- the first birth. This seems to have support in the understanding of Nicodemus about entering into the womb to be born a second time. However, this view is not the most commonly held view.

The second option holds that the water is referring to the Word of God. Eph. 5:26 says, "that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word." Some believe that the washing of water is done by means of the Word of God.

The third view says that the water refers to the Holy Spirit. Perhaps Nicodemus was reminded of Ezek. 36:25-27, "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27"And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances." Certainly, Jesus' own words are applicable here when He says in John 7:37-39, "Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If any man is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. 38"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.'" 39But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."

The fourth view holds that the water is in reference to the water baptism of repentance taught by John the Baptist. Matt. 3:1-6 describes John's ministry in the desert, his teaching about repentance, and baptizing people into that repentance. Contextually, the first chapter of John mentions John the Baptist in verses 6-8 and 19-36. Certainly, John and his ministry is in view here. If this is the case, then Jesus would have been speaking of the "baptism" (the initiatory ordinance) of repentance preached by John the Baptist.

The fifth view is the one held by the International Church of Christ and other churches that require baptism in order to be saved. They state that the water is referring to baptism and that it is essential to salvation.

Does John 3:5 teach that baptism is essential to salvation?

As you can see, there are different interpretations to John 3:5. But, to simply say that John 3:5 does not teach the necessity of baptism isn't enough. Some sort of proof must be offered. The proof is found in God's word, the word that has no contradictions. Clearly, salvation is by faith. For example, Rom. 5:1 states that we are justified (declared righteous) by faith. It does not say faith and baptism. If baptism were part of salvation, then it would say we were justified by faith and baptism. But it does not. If justification is by faith, then it is by faith. Baptism is not faith. It is a ceremony. It is something we do as a ritual. Furthermore, please consider the following verses when declare how we are saved.

1. Rom. 3:22, "even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction."
2. Rom. 3:26, "for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."
3. Rom. 3:28, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law."
4. Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness."
5. Rom. 5:1, "Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
6. Gal. 3:8, "And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham."
7. Gal. 3:24 , "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."
8. Eph. 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God."

Additionally, Paul tells us that the gospel is what saves us and that the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, (1 Cor. 15:1-4). Baptism is not included in the description of the gospel. This explains why he said he came to preach the gospel, not to baptize: "I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel..." (1 Cor. 1:14-17). If baptism is necessary for salvation then why did Paul downplay it and even exclude it from the description of what is required for salvation? It is because baptism isn't necessary for salvation. Therefore, John 3:5 must be interpreted in a manner consistent with the rest of scripture.

Another way of making this clear is to use an illustration. Let's suppose that a person, under the conviction of the Holy Spirit (John 16:8), believed in Jesus as his savior (Rom. 10:9-10; Titus 2:13), and has received Christ (John 1:12) as Savior. Is that person saved? Of course he is. Let's further suppose that this person who confesses his sinfulness, cries out in repentance to the Lord, and receives Jesus as Savior, then walks across the street to get baptized at a local church. In the middle of the road he gets hit by a car and is killed. Does he go to heaven or hell? If he goes to heaven then baptism isn't necessary for salvation. If He goes to hell, then trusting in Jesus, by faith, isn't enough for salvation. Doesn't that go against the Scriptures that say that salvation is a free gift (Rom. 6:23) received by faith (Eph. 2:8-9)? Yes it does. Baptism is not necessary for salvation and John 3:5 cannot teach that it is.

Baptism and John 3:5

[msufan]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfSparty®

What if you are right and belief is all that is necessary. Well then I'll see you in heaven because I too believe, as do everyone I have taught and know that were baptized FOR the remission of sins. Now, what if I am right and baptism is ESSENTIAL? Where does that leave you and yours?

I've been baptized too, as most likely have virtually all of us who are disagreeing with you on this point; we're just stating that baptism is separate from salvation.

I'm glad you have brought this point up, though, because never in my life have I known anyone who believes what you have described in this thread. What are your views on child baptism, then? Is it essential to get those infants baptized so they don't go to hell or, as you mentioned before, is baptism without belief worthless, so you have to wait to baptize someone until they truly understand and believe in Christ? If you do wait, are all unbaptized infants and children who die in their youth doomed?

[Druidblue]

I find this passage from one of my books on druidic studies to be most valid on this concept... (written as dialogue from one Druid to an apprentice)


"Each year from Beltane to Samhain, the Earth renews herself from seed to harvest and back again. This great "Serpent-Spiral of nature" is also reflected in the seasons as they revolve from one unto the other without end- always returning to the point from which they began. And such is the motion of the stars as they circle the Earth, and the Sun across the sky... and the Moon from full to hollow. Does it not seem right, then, that man should be subject to the same law of cycles as well? ... A man is born, lives a life of good or evil, luxury or punishment, dies and is born a-new to learn once more. After all, of what use could the few brief years of a single lifetime be, to the task of perfecting the soul? Such a task needs countless lifetimes to accomplish, as anyone might reason out.

And yet there are many among the Christian leaders who profess that, after a handful of years and a single life, a soul is then ready for judgment unto eternal bliss or eternal damnation! Ah... how such folly can come into a civilized land un-contended- it is truly beyond me."



This is a recurring lesson I've picked up on in the past few decades that I highly agree with. So yes, I fully expect to go to an afterlife, regardless of my beliefs, religion or if I was or wasn't baptized (I was)... where I may process, share and examine what my soul has learned in this lifetime- along with all others, before returning to existence again to continue the learning process as one of many possible forms in one of many possible places.

Because the concept of eternal damnation (especially for such petty reasons as are often given) nullifies the concept of progression of the soul or learning and instead brings forth an arrogant, selfish God intent on whimsy of his own pleasures, rather than a majestic "essence" of God that is simply the whole of all existence seeking to continually progress as a singular entity comprised of many wondrous parts.

[Druidblue]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfSparty®

So you find it more likely that someone should be eternally judged after 5 years (given a young death) or 75 years (when you still truly know nothing) as opposed to the continual growth of the soul?

And again, if that is so, what point is there to eternal damnation? It is punishment, and punishment is by definition a learning concept. You punish someone in order to teach them they must pay for their wrongdoings. If you are eternally damned you would learn nothing, as you would never have anything to apply your "lesson learned" towards. It makes no sense whatsoever, and it also again portrays a petty, selfish and evil God.

Sorry, but I'll stick with the wisdom on the matter that is far more ancient and learned- as well as full of open thought- than Christianity.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Golfnut

jesus

Of f*** here we go again with the Tooth Fairy...

Nice PUNITIVE POS "GOD" you have there...

[xfrodobagginsx]

LoneWolfSparty® wrote:

I also see you ignored my challenge. There are multiple examples of conversion in the book of Acts, find me one where the person was saved without baptism.


My response:

I gave you examples, but I will do it again. 1) The theif on the cross who merely asked Jesus to remember him when He comes into His kingdom. 2)You cannot possess the Holy Ghost unless you are saved, yet those mentioned in Acts 10:47 had the Holy Ghost BEFORE baptism, because they were already saved.

Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

The Ethiopian Eunich is another example. He wanted to know what hindered him from baptism. And philip told him that he had to believe with all of his HEART. Salvation comes from a heart decision to follow Christ, or believing ON Christ for salvation. The baptism follows as an act of obedience, as a sign to the world that you are already a believer and will follow and obey Christ Jesus. It is a picture of His death, burial and resurrection, which is what truly saves us in the first place, not baptism.

Ac 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.


There are also different types of baptism in the bible. Some are spiritual and don't even involve water, yet the baptism saves crowd can't make any distinction between one type or the other.

[Heaph]

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

Baptism does not save. It is an outward expression of faith AFTER salvation.

This is correct per God's Word.

[turd_herder]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfSparty®

Sin requires willfully disobeying God. Since babies and children are incapable of knowing right from wrong they cannot sin, and therefore are not in need of salvation. Baptizing those that do not believe is no more than getting them wet.

As for your baptism, if it wasn't for the remission of sins then it was nothing more than getting wet.

so abortion doctors are actually saving souls

Billy Graham must be at the end of a long line.

[turd_herder]

btw, how do you literalists account for some of the converts in Acts not receiving the Spirit upon their conversion?

[Foxbat]

Originally Posted by '86

Agreed. LWS, it would be a irresponsible to derail a proclamation to the lost into infighting amongst Christians over doctrine. There is a time and place for everything and this is not the time. Great OP.

How was it irresponsible or different from the OP? Both feel that there are trivial and technical details on which your afterlife fate hinges.

One feels that the pledge to ask Christ to be the Saviour is the determinant, while the latter feels that's totally worthless unless you pour some water over yourself in addition. Both said something because they felt hell was in the future if they didn't speak.

Who's delusional enough to think people will make enormous life changing belief changes based on some spammer's rant anyway, when most people didn't even part with $20 for those X10 cameras back in the day?