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| Wells Hall Off-topic Board Politics, Religion, and Social Issues. This board is your pulpit to preach to the masses (like the Wells Hall preacher) about everything from politics to religion. Please be kind to your fellow Spartans. Post as if your family is in the other computer. |
11-05-2007, 05:32 PM
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#51 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_disc_golf
yet another conservative poster who refuses to actually address the issue.
I'm shocked, I really, really am... really.
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Yeah, if the liberal media reports it it must be true. They are totally objective and have no agenda to exaggerate or anything like that. My proof is in what the reporter conjectures about.
Signed,
Clueless_Disc
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11-05-2007, 05:32 PM
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#52 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack78
Signed,
British General Cornwallis
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That's about as old as the crust in your panties. 
__________________
In honour of the late William Buckley I pledge to respect my esteemed and inevitable political rivals, the Demms, in a civil and honourable manner.
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11-05-2007, 05:36 PM
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#54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_disc_golf
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Actually, I'll turn down your invitation to join your
organization. Tell P.A.T. that I said "hi".
__________________
In honour of the late William Buckley I pledge to respect my esteemed and inevitable political rivals, the Demms, in a civil and honourable manner.
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11-06-2007, 10:50 AM
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#56 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack78
I'm curious, why didn't you use slavery as the analogous example? Certainly your "drinking" analogy is apt because of the forced pouring of large quantities of vile liquid down the throats of the helpless while viewing football games. Just curious if you might see any underlying factors that may make one circumstance more analogous than another.
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This is one of your best posts ever Jack. Seriously, well done.  
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"I guess if a person never quit when the going got tough, they wouldn't have anything to regret for the rest of their life. Well, good luck to you Peter. I am sure this decision won't haunt you for the rest of your life."
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11-06-2007, 10:56 AM
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#57 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_disc_golf
funny how the point flew over your head as well.
It isn't just that it once was illegal and now it isn't. It's that up until recently when this practice was used against U.S. interests it is seen as a major crime, but NOW the U.S. doesn't have a problem with it. |
That doesn't make it hypocritcal though. Nobody is out there pretending to have something they don't possess.
Changes in policy are what you get in government all the time. It comes with different people being in charge all the time. It has nothing to do with hypocrisy.
That is my point.
You just can't call a goverment a hypocrite. It's a collection of people that changes all the time. Find an individual and you are on to something.
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"I guess if a person never quit when the going got tough, they wouldn't have anything to regret for the rest of their life. Well, good luck to you Peter. I am sure this decision won't haunt you for the rest of your life."
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11-06-2007, 11:18 AM
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#58 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBSpartan
That doesn't make it hypocritcal though. Nobody is out there pretending to have something they don't possess.
Changes in policy are what you get in government all the time. It comes with different people being in charge all the time. It has nothing to do with hypocrisy.
That is my point.
You just can't call a goverment a hypocrite. It's a collection of people that changes all the time. Find an individual and you are on to something.
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Nobody called a government a hypocrite. This stance is hypocritical of America in general.
Bad when used against Americans
Good when used BY Americans
That is hypocritical, in a generalized sense.
Of course you have changes in policy and many of those changes are hypocritical in nature. Whether you have changes in administrations or not, these admins nonetheless represent the will of the people of America in general.
Your view is a cop out and suggests that America should never have to hold a consistent view on anything, ever.
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11-06-2007, 11:23 AM
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#59 (permalink)
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 #21 Otis Wiley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBSpartan
That doesn't make it hypocritcal though. Nobody is out there pretending to have something they don't possess.
Changes in policy are what you get in government all the time. It comes with different people being in charge all the time. It has nothing to do with hypocrisy.
That is my point.
You just can't call a goverment a hypocrite. It's a collection of people that changes all the time. Find an individual and you are on to something.
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You are seriously strange. The change in policy was dictated by this administration, by this country's elected leaders. By Cheney, by Bush and, under their policy directed pressure, by their minions Addington, Yoo, Gonzalez, and the rest ... that makes it US policy, fool.
The US has a long standing policy and national moral stance of being against torture ... as a nation, not as who happens to occupy leadership at a given time.
Last edited by Jack78; 11-06-2007 at 11:31 AM.
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11-06-2007, 11:23 AM
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#60 (permalink)
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#25 Blair White
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It's amazing how much damage Bush has done to our country's credibility and honor. The ramifications will be felt for generations. In seven years, he has managed to wipe out decades or even centuries worth of progress. 
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11-06-2007, 11:30 AM
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#61 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
even centuries worth of progress. |
I guess that means that Bush has wiped out the good will that Benjamin Franklin gave us in France?
Frenchman: Damn Bush. I'm going to take down my pictures of Benjamin Franklin in my foyer.
Frenchman: Yeah, Lafayette was sure stupid to help the Americans knowing that they would eventually beget Bush.
Frenchman: Our soldiers died in vain helping the Americans in the Revolutionary due to Bush's existence.
 Fletch certainly adds a new twist to the "It's All Bush's Fault".
__________________
In honour of the late William Buckley I pledge to respect my esteemed and inevitable political rivals, the Demms, in a civil and honourable manner.
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11-06-2007, 11:35 AM
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#62 (permalink)
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#25 Blair White
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HubbardHall85
I guess that means that Bush has wiped out the good will that Benjamin Franklin gave us in France?
Frenchman: Damn Bush. I'm going to take down my pictures of Benjamin Franklin in my foyer.
Frenchman: Yeah, Lafayette was sure stupid to help the Americans knowing that they would eventually beget Bush.
Frenchman: Our soldiers died in vain helping the Americans in the Revolutionary due to Bush's existence.
Fletch certainly adds a new twist to the "It's All Bush's Fault". |
It's pathetic that a few of you still defend the guy soley because he has an "R" next to his name on the ballot. He's an embarrassment to the word "Republican." Then again, so are you, so I guess it makes sense that you still support him.
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11-06-2007, 11:35 AM
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#63 (permalink)
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#43 Eric Gordon
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I'm a liberal and I am in favor of torture...well...kind of...anyway...
I hate to admit it in some ways but you can't generalize situations in this regard...
It is like the nuclear option...you hope you never have to use it but it is an option and should remain on the table...
Generally, torture should not be allowed against uniformed wearing soldiers in the field of combat.....I agree with that....
However, there are situations where it might be necessary...
Let's say we are talking about terrorists...and say those terrorists have a nuclear bomb....its set to go off somewhere in the US...we capture one of the terrorists who has information about the nuke terrorist plot....
There ya' go....if beating the crap out of him can save 5 million US lives...well....here is the whippin' stick....go at it...
Again...if its a military man in uniform and he has information on troop movements etc...but in a conventional war kind of way...we are bound by the Geneva Convention...we can't and should not torture...yes...that means that 10's or even 100's of American Soldiers could be at risk...still the answer is no...no torture....
But in those extreme terorrist situations...there needs to be flexibility...
Yeah I know...its is a sick world we live in...
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11-06-2007, 11:48 AM
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#64 (permalink)
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10,000+ posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lochgelly
I'm a liberal and I am in favor of torture...well...kind of...anyway...
I hate to admit it in some ways but you can't generalize situations in this regard...
It is like the nuclear option...you hope you never have to use it but it is an option and should remain on the table...
Generally, torture should not be allowed against uniformed wearing soldiers in the field of combat.....I agree with that....
However, there are situations where it might be necessary...
Let's say we are talking about terrorists...and say those terrorists have a nuclear bomb....its set to go off somewhere in the US...we capture one of the terrorists who has information about the nuke terrorist plot....
There ya' go....if beating the crap out of him can save 5 million US lives...well....here is the whippin' stick....go at it...
Again...if its a military man in uniform and he has information on troop movements etc...but in a conventional war kind of way...we are bound by the Geneva Convention...we can't and should not torture...yes...that means that 10's or even 100's of American Soldiers could be at risk...still the answer is no...no torture....
But in those extreme terorrist situations...there needs to be flexibility...
Yeah I know...its is a sick world we live in...
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Does torture even work? I mean, wouldn't the person say ANYTHING just to get the torture to stop? How can you rely on info from the tortured?
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11-06-2007, 11:49 AM
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#65 (permalink)
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Loch,
Great points. Why are such tactics used?
Go's opinion is that the military is full of a bunch of idiots who just like to get off on watching brown people suffer. Any opinon to the contrary, and we are called idiots as well.
Realistically, such practises are probably very rarely used. In the case of waterboarding, it was done 3 times and none since '03. So bringing it up now, clearly is only for political reasons.
Odds are, the tactic probably produces results and was chosen for a well thought out reason.
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11-06-2007, 11:52 AM
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#66 (permalink)
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10,000+ posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Other Mike
Go's opinion is that the military is full of a bunch of idiots who just like to get off on watching brown people suffer. Any opinon to the contrary, and we are called idiots as well.
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link please Please don't put words in my mouth, I've never stated anything CLOSE to what you claim.
and is it even the military who uses these tactics? wouldn't it be more likely to be the CIA
Quote:
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Realistically, such practises are probably very rarely used. In the case of waterboarding, it was done 3 times and none since '03. So bringing it up now, clearly is only for political reasons.
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and you know this, how?
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11-06-2007, 12:00 PM
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#67 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack78
You are seriously strange. The change in policy was dictated by this administration, by this country's elected leaders. By Cheney, by Bush and, under their policy directed pressure, by their minions Addington, Yoo, Gonzalez, and the rest ... that makes it US policy, fool.
The US has a long standing policy and national moral stance of being against torture ... as a nation, not as who happens to occupy leadership at a given time.
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Anytime a Lib starts calling names you have them. Not to mention you can count on them blaming Bush somehow.
Let's not forget that waterboarding was made illegal 40 years ago. (Not by Bush)
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"I guess if a person never quit when the going got tough, they wouldn't have anything to regret for the rest of their life. Well, good luck to you Peter. I am sure this decision won't haunt you for the rest of your life."
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11-06-2007, 12:04 PM
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#68 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_disc_golf
Does torture even work? I mean, wouldn't the person say ANYTHING just to get the torture to stop? How can you rely on info from the tortured?
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My guess is that it works or it wouldn't be an issue.
__________________
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"I guess if a person never quit when the going got tough, they wouldn't have anything to regret for the rest of their life. Well, good luck to you Peter. I am sure this decision won't haunt you for the rest of your life."
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11-06-2007, 12:09 PM
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#69 (permalink)
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10,000+ posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBSpartan
My guess is that it works or it wouldn't be an issue.
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You didn't answer the question. We may think it works, but plenty of evidence out there says it doesn't.
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11-06-2007, 12:10 PM
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#70 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBSpartan
Anytime a Lib starts calling names you have them. Not to mention you can count on them blaming Bush somehow.
Let's not forget that waterboarding was made illegal 40 years ago. (Not by Bush)
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You don't "have" anyone. Your post was problematic and you were told why, move on.
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11-06-2007, 12:41 PM
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#71 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_disc_golf
You didn't answer the question. We may think it works, but plenty of evidence out there says it doesn't.
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If that is the case then why did you ask?
Hell, I don't know if it works. I am not an expert in that kind of thing and I am guessing nobody else here is either.
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"I guess if a person never quit when the going got tough, they wouldn't have anything to regret for the rest of their life. Well, good luck to you Peter. I am sure this decision won't haunt you for the rest of your life."
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11-06-2007, 12:42 PM
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#72 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_disc_golf
You don't "have" anyone. Your post was problematic and you were told why, move on.
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No it wasn't. It was spot on.
Let me break it down.
Waterboard made illegal 40 years ago.
GWB's admin made it legal in 2003.
Two different parties, with two different thoughts.
NOT hypocritical.
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"I guess if a person never quit when the going got tough, they wouldn't have anything to regret for the rest of their life. Well, good luck to you Peter. I am sure this decision won't haunt you for the rest of your life."
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11-06-2007, 12:43 PM
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#73 (permalink)
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10,000+ posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBSpartan
If that is the case then why did you ask?
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to start a conversation?
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