Lets stop talking about this supposed recession...

[danb]

Originally Posted by lars

As for hiring. I just hired a new employee in the last two weeks. And I am looking at acquiring another office which would more than double the size of my business. Things are not bad everywhere.

Remember GDP is still expanding. Which means business is GROWING. Although very very slowly. Yea a 1-2% decrease in GDP gets tons of news. But trillions and trillions of dollars of business is still done every year in this country. Recession happen and then they don't. This one will be over soon enough.

Since we've rejected liberal protectionism, the inevitable recessions we always face have been shorter and shallower, just like right thinking economists have been saying since the time of von Mises and Hayek.

[lars]

Originally Posted by danb

Since we've rejected liberal protectionism, the inevitable recessions we always face have been shorter and shallower, just like right thinking economists have been saying since the time of von Mises and Hayek.

True. In many ways the expansion of the international markets for US goods has made this recession and others much milder. Imagine how tough it would be right now if the US was an isolationist market. Most of the expansion in US business is coming from overseas at the moment.

[GRR Spartan]

Originally Posted by PRStoetzer

My office is hiring 2 or 3 new people

I'm personally going to be hiring 4 part timers in the next couple of weeks.

PR is a civil servant which means "his office" is putting more people at the government trough.

FDR had people building schools, roads and planting forests and that was called make work by the GOP. Todays newly hired office workers for government offices is called evidence of a growing economy.

Go figure.

[PRStoetzer]

Originally Posted by GRR Spartan

PR is a civil servant which means "his office" is putting more people at the government trough.

FDR had people building schools, roads and planting forests and that was called make work by the GOP. Todays newly hired office workers for government offices is called evidence of a growing economy.

Go figure.

You know...I wrote that post just to see your reaction to it.

[GRR Spartan]

Originally Posted by PRStoetzer

You know...I wrote that post just to see your reaction to it.

Nice try and Mitt won't be VP even though he very well could be running for re-election as the president if McCain would pick him.. I just don't have any confidence in McCain's health.

[danb]

Originally Posted by lars

True. In many ways the expansion of the international markets for US goods has made this recession and others much milder. Imagine how tough it would be right now if the US was an isolationist market. Most of the expansion in US business is coming from overseas at the moment.

Which is just what the economically-illiterate left would have us be.

[GRR Spartan]

Originally Posted by danb

Which is just what the economically-illiterate left would have us be.

Just when I think you can't get any dumber you come up with this gem.

Are you old enough to vote?

I am a commission only sales person who owns my own agency. If I don't sell, I don't eat.

What business do you own danb? How do you make your pay?

My guess is a job with a salary and company paid benefits. A faux conservative.

[lars]

Originally Posted by GRR Spartan

My guess is a job with a salary and company paid benefits. A faux conservative.

GRR how does having a job with a company and benefits make someone a faux conservative?

[John Deere]

Originally Posted by GRR Spartan

Nice try and Mitt won't be VP even though he very well could be running for re-election as the president if McCain would pick him.. I just don't have any confidence in McCain's health.

At this time, McCain is courting the religious right with an offer to name Huckabee as his running mate and by promising that he'll die before his term is over.

[WixomSpartan]

Originally Posted by Ignignokt

I can name a ton. Most of the companies in my area (Silicon Valley) are hiring.

My department is hiring 5 new people and it is so hard to get people that there is a $5000 internal referral bonus for successful hires in my position.

LIAR!!!!

[GRR Spartan]

A faux conservative is living on a company dole, accepting company paid insurance and other benefits while arguing the Marlboro Man/everyone is responsible for their own well being talking points.

A few out here like Lars and myself are on their own. Many more are collecting a salary check/vacation pay and health insurance calling for others to stand on their own.

[TurboSpartan]

Originally Posted by Last Post

because we really should be concentrating on the upcoming DEPRESSION.

Why is everyone skirting the pending doom of this economy? Gas prices through the roof, jobs going overseas and evaporating in the US, housing prices going into the toilet devastating people's equity, food prices going higher, etc. ,etc.

You look around and it's all bad news. The local gov'ts can't continue to function because the local houses are being foreclosed upon and taxes aren't being collected.

We're talking collosal devastaton and people are still debating about a recession?

Let's stop pretending and start realizing things suck and are going to get suckier.

Yeesh, people talk about schtick accounts... I think wells hall is a schtick board.

[lars]

Originally Posted by GRR Spartan

A faux conservative is living on a company dole, accepting company paid insurance and other benefits while arguing the Marlboro Man/everyone is responsible for their own well being talking points.

A few out here like Lars and myself are on their own. Many more are collecting a salary check/vacation pay and health insurance calling for others to stand on their own.

Wow. I don't see conservatives like that at all. In my view, conservatism is more about mind set than how you make a living. Everyone who works gets paid by someone. Some of us are business owners while others are employees. I don't believe you have to be a business owner to be conservative. However, I do think most business owners are conservative.

No.. conservatism is about wanting the govt to be fiscal responsible, and people to responsible for themselves (meaning earning a living and contributing something to society). It's also about spending federal funds more wisely rather than giving a hand out to every smuck that says they need more money (including businesses).

Conservatives also believe in a strong national defense, allowing business to run without over regulation, free trade and competition.

Finally, conservatism has a social/moral aspect. Many conservative include that as part of being conservative. But not all conservatives have this belief.

[Ignignokt]

Originally Posted by WixomSpartan

LIAR!!!!

Funny how you're the first person to even acknowledge my post. It almost seems like people ignore evidence that belies their assumptions.

As I said, they're hiring like crazy out here. I just changed companies, and both the company I left and the one I just moved to have a number of open positions just in software engineering (what I do). I got a 15% raise for my move.

I'll be the first to admit that the economy isn't great, but it seems this board is filled with pessimists who won't admit that there are opportunities. To pretend like there are no companies in the entire country that are hiring is absolutely delirious.

[GRR Spartan]

Lars nailed.

Conservatives, at least Reagan and post Reagan conservatives want the best of both worlds. Strong military (without paying for it/ See Bush2 and Reagan), let business run unfettered by laws/regulation but impose your moral beliefs on everyone through political means.

[lars]

Originally Posted by GRR Spartan

Lars nailed.

Conservatives, at least Reagan and post Reagan conservatives want the best of both worlds. Strong military (without paying for it/ See Bush2 and Reagan), let business run unfettered by laws/regulation but impose your moral beliefs on everyone through political means.

Sorry but those are not my words.

Conservatives want:

Strong military - Yes - and pay for it
Smaller govt - on social programs, handouts and pork
Less regulation - Not no regulation. Business are often taxed and regulated to death
Moral- Yes we dont need the govt to be legislating immoral policies (or at least controversial policies where 1/2 the population thinks its wrong). We want govt that is more neutral with some sense of right and wrong. The founding father believed this and we should too.

[GRR Spartan]

Founding Fathers? Once again your mythical Marlboro Man philosophy slides into the conversation.

You and I have no clue what the Founding Fathers would want. Many were slave owners (and dead before the Civil War broke out) so we really don't have a clue where they would have had loyalties. If you think you can base our now industrialized country populated by people from all over the world with elected office holders from dozens of different ethnic groups to what you think a small group of white guys from England living in an agrarian economy you must have a magic kingdom in your head.

[danb]

For anyone who is actually serious about learning more about conservatism, a good place to start is the Russell Kirk Center (link below.) I would also highly recommend his book entitled "A Conservative Mind."

The Kirk Center - Biography of Russell Kirk

I would caution that if one thinks conservatism can be reduced to a set of bullet points describing positions on issues, they will be highly disappointed. One can certainly draw conclusions about what those positions might be from an understanding of the philosophy, but it is more a way of thinking and attitude that one applies to personal and public life. It is the antithesis of ideology.

[ChicagoMark]

Originally Posted by danb

Since we've rejected liberal protectionism, the inevitable recessions we always face have been shorter and shallower, just like right thinking economists have been saying since the time of von Mises and Hayek.

von Mises and Hayek would be the most outstanding opponents of our current economic condition and both would be preparring for a depression. Our response to recessions since the 80's has been to lower interest rates and create massive amounts of money and credit. Two things both those great minds warned us about. One of von Mises' great contribution was demonstrating that a prolonged period of ever greater money and credit creation results in a "Crack-up Boom"; a boom phase where all is well until it falls apart in a collapse or "crack-up", which is what started in August of last year. This recession will be long and severe....and probably we be called a depression, even though there are no offical stats that define a depression.

Governments can reduce the rate of interest in the short run. They can issue additional paper money. They can open the way to credit expansion by the banks. They can thus create an artificial boom and the appearance of prosperity. But such a boom is bound to collapse soon or late and to bring about a depression.
- Ludvig von Mises
Omnipotent Government p. 251

"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit (debt) expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit (debt) expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."
- Ludwig von Mises

[ChicagoMark]

Originally Posted by lars

True. In many ways the expansion of the international markets for US goods has made this recession and others much milder. Imagine how tough it would be right now if the US was an isolationist market. Most of the expansion in US business is coming from overseas at the moment.

The expansion of international markets has resulted and continues to result in one of the great transfers of wealth FROM a country (the US) to other countires the world has ever seen. Our trade deficit / current account deficit has skyrocketed in the last 5 year and is now nearly $800 billion a year. This is wealth tranfer at a grand level and will be our undoing.



Don't get me wrong, I'm for free trade, but until their is a global monetary standard like gold international trade will always be corrupted by currency manipulation and central banks fiddling.

[ChicagoMark]

Originally Posted by danb

Which is just what the economically-illiterate left would have us be.

Let's be careful here, the Right is nearly as illiterate, if not more. The Right is just much more immoral about ecomonics. Instead of going to the people and telling them they have to raise taxes to fund current government expenses, the welfare state and two wars in Asia, they use debt to cover the cost which gets pushed on to a future generation. I consider the Right to be massive financial and economic cowards, and incredibley irresponsible with fiscal management.

If we want to expand govenment to extreme levels, let's have an honest and moral debate based on a Balanced Budget, which means are we willing to pay much higher taxes to fund it....no debt is allowed.