How much longer before the domestics offer a sedan that gets 52 mpg like the Honda Accord Diesel?

[FourSpartans]

Originally Posted by Big Ten Referee

so you're the sex offender that won the Mega Millions? Congrats.

Ha

I've accomplished neither.
But the day is young and the drawing is tonight......

[VanWilder]

Originally Posted by FourSpartans

Ha

I've accomplished neither.
But she is young and the drawing is tonight......

Fixed it for you

[The Banned User]

Originally Posted by AASpartan

So is the Taurus. Yet people still put that down too.

The new Taurus is

[Leonidas]

Originally Posted by znerd

I'm not a car expert, but have been checking out some diesel options. i believe it was Mercedez who developed the cleaner diesel technology which they have in their Bluetec line. They have an agreement with Audio, VW, and BMW where they have shared the technology. Mercedez has won a bunch of awards on this "green" technology. I know they have it in their E-Class and BMW is going to offer a 5-series diesel in the U.S. in 2009.

The Honda system is better...it doesn't require urea injection

[classof??]

Originally Posted by Shooter

Not true.

GM right now has a tremendous amount of R&D in Diesel technology --- look for a large amount of vehicles in the future to be turbocharged or twin turbo diesels.

Also the time frame of monty's example is way off. GM's converted 350 diesels was at least 3 to 4 years before Ford using them. The problems with GM's diesel were that the design of a gasoline engine could not handle the compression needed for a diesel and most engines failed (my parents car survived but what a POS that thing was). Problem with Fords diesel, sluggish and smokey. Europeans have been turbo charging diesels for years and they have almost never driven like the big 3s miserable attempts. Speaking of which even friends of mine that have been die hard diesel truck drivers for years are now bitching about the quality of the diesel engines the big 3 are putting in their trucks now.

[monty4msu]

Originally Posted by classof??

Also the time frame of monty's example is way off. GM's converted 350 diesels was at least 3 to 4 years before Ford using them. The problems with GM's diesel were that the design of a gasoline engine could not handle the compression needed for a diesel and most engines failed (my parents car survived but what a POS that thing was). Problem with Fords diesel, sluggish and smokey. Europeans have been turbo charging diesels for years and they have almost never driven like the big 3s miserable attempts. Speaking of which even friends of mine that have been die hard diesel truck drivers for years are now bitching about the quality of the diesel engines the big 3 are putting in their trucks now.

You are correct, my time frame was off. You correctly point out that GM converted the 350, and that was a joke. I knew several people who bought them, absolutely hated them, couldnt wait to get out of them. This simply points out the other thing that has been pointed out, perception is reality. The perception of the diesel by most of the general public is not good. In reality, the diesel powered car will be a niche vehicle and only appeal to a limited segment.

[GreenIsGood]

Originally Posted by Floyd Robertson

FWIW, I heard on ABC News last night that Americans drove 4.5 Billion (yes, with a B) fewer miles in April 2008 compared to April 2007, so people are taking notice.

So that breaks down to 150,000,000 miles a day or roughly 1/2 a mile per person per day.

[BrewSwillis]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

The Honda Accord Diesel will be offered as a 2009 in U.S., and they've been selling them in Europe...so it's not a demostration vehicle

You can't even read! This article gives no indication that a diesel will be offered in the US Honda Accord. It says that it will be offered in the redesigned 2009 Acura TSX. That car will cost significantly more then any Accord. They also state that the US version will have a different engine and emissions equipment then this . Bye bye 50MPG.

[iamweasel]

Originally Posted by classof??

Also the time frame of monty's example is way off. GM's converted 350 diesels was at least 3 to 4 years before Ford using them. The problems with GM's diesel were that the design of a gasoline engine could not handle the compression needed for a diesel and most engines failed (my parents car survived but what a POS that thing was). Problem with Fords diesel, sluggish and smokey. Europeans have been turbo charging diesels for years and they have almost never driven like the big 3s miserable attempts. Speaking of which even friends of mine that have been die hard diesel truck drivers for years are now bitching about the quality of the diesel engines the big 3 are putting in their trucks now.

The Sterling & Dodge trucks have the Cummins engine which is BY FAR the best truck diesel out there. It gets 10-15% better fuel economy over the Ford and over 20% better than the GM engine in commercial applications.

Sterling Trucks - Press Releases


GM uses the Isuzu-built Duramax engine which is horrendus on gas and has questionable quality.

Ford's 7.3L diesel was bulletproof but then came the 6.0L engine in 2004. That engine was a disaster (thanks to shotty construction by Navistar) and was a major POS. The new 6.4L engine that started with the 2008 trucks is better but sucks gas big time. Ford's best hope is in 2010 when the new Super Duty will have a Ford-built engine and not the piece of crap from Navistar/International.

[iamweasel]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

The Honda system is better...it doesn't require urea injection

Yeah, but the trade-off is you sacrifice about 5% fuel economy with a non-SCR system.

[Leonidas]

Originally Posted by BrewSwillis

You can't even read! This article gives no indication that a diesel will be offered in the US Honda Accord. It says that it will be offered in the redesigned 2009 Acura TSX. That car will cost significantly more then any Accord. They also state that the US version will have a different engine and emissions equipment then this . Bye bye 50MPG.

You can't read either

2009 Honda Accord Diesel and New Honda Hybrids for 2009 - Car News/Green Machines/Car Shopping/Hot Lists/Reviews/Car and Driver - Car And Driver

AUTOSAVANT: Honda Accord Diesel and New Hybrid Coming for 2009 Model Year

[The Anti - Bob]

Originally Posted by iamweasel

Yeah, but the trade-off is you sacrifice about 5% fuel economy with a non-SCR system.

With fuel that costs 20% more.

But it's a Honda and Leo just shot his load all over the keyboard.

Don't let facts get in the way of fanboy.

[BrewSwillis]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

You can't read either

2009 Honda Accord Diesel and New Honda Hybrids for 2009 - Car News/Green Machines/Car Shopping/Hot Lists/Reviews/Car and Driver - Car And Driver

AUTOSAVANT: Honda Accord Diesel and New Hybrid Coming for 2009 Model Year

Oh, I can read just fine. The article you posted makes no reference of a diesel Accord in the US, only a diesel Acura TSX. It's my fault for not searching the net for more information to support statements you made about a certain article you posted??

[Leonidas]

Originally Posted by The Anti - Bob

With fuel that costs 20% more.

But it's a Honda and Leo just shot his load all over the keyboard.

Don't let facts get in the way of fanboy.

Yeah cause getting only 52 mpg is such a 5% sacrifice

[dyoct]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

Yeah cause getting only 52 mpg is such a 5% sacrifice

Don't count chickens before they hatch. I ate crow after being disappointed in the diesel Jetta's official estimates. So much for that 60MPG some people/techies were blabbin' about.

Model 1 Vehicle Characteristics

Note, no 2009 Hondas rated yet.

Choose Make 1

[Leonidas]

Originally Posted by iamweasel

Yeah, but the trade-off is you sacrifice about 5% fuel economy with a non-SCR system.

53 mpg is a 5% sacrifice?

[iamweasel]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

53 mpg is a 5% sacrifice?

Well, yes, it is. If Honda put an SCR diesel in their Accord it would get 56MPG instead of 53MPH.

You were bragging about the fact it didn't need Urea. Urea will be like washer fluid where it is topped off when you get oil changes, etc. I'd prefer to have the 56MPG system even if it had urea since most likely I'll never have to screw with it anyway.

Of the heavy truck manufacturers only Navistar (who's quality reputation is so-so at best) is going the EGR/non-urea route. Freightliner, Sterling, Kenworth, Peterbilt, Mack, Volvo and Hino are all going SCR.

Does Navistar know something everyone else doesn't? Given their reputation I think not...

[BrewSwillis]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

53 mpg is a 5% sacrifice?

I'll put money down that the larger US Honda Accord diesel will not be rated at 53 MPG. It probably won't be over 50 MPG.

Don't get me wrong. Diesel is a very good option for getting better mileage. But you always turn things into an example of how the Big 3 are "falling behind". All Honda did was buy German diesels to put into their cars. All of the Big 3 already have diesels in their European vehicles. The ability to bring them here is based on meeting new, stricter US diesel emission standards, and if it makes sense from a business standpoint. Honda has money to waste, due to Japan's cheating government, and your undying support of foreign manufacturers. If you don't buy vehicles made in this country, and out government could give a rats ass about the Big 3, then they end up with no money for R&D.

[doc_spartan]

I'm curious as to why you think this is a non-Honda engine?

The article refers to a Bosch demo vehicle with some Bosch components...I think the engine is designed by Honda and built at their Swindon plant in the UK?

[Leonidas]

Originally Posted by iamweasel

Well, yes, it is. If Honda put an SCR diesel in their Accord it would get 56MPG instead of 53MPH.

You were bragging about the fact it didn't need Urea. Urea will be like washer fluid where it is topped off when you get oil changes, etc. I'd prefer to have the 56MPG system even if it had urea since most likely I'll never have to screw with it anyway.

Of the heavy truck manufacturers only Navistar (who's quality reputation