All out war in Mexico - SpartanTailgate.com

bukdow · 06-23-2008, 12:49 PM

The drug cartels and the Mexican police/military are in an all out war. Interestingly, 90% of the drug cartels` weapons come from the US.

Dr. Strangelove · 06-23-2008, 12:55 PM

Well to be fair to the cartels it doesn't make much sense to return those drug running planes, boats and trucks home to Mexico empty. So they fill them up with weapons.

bukdow · 06-23-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove

Well to be fair to the cartels it doesn't make much sense to return those drug running planes, boats and trucks home to Mexico empty. So they fill them up with weapons.

What if there wasn`t a plethora of weapons to fill the planes, boats and trucks with?

Statepug · 06-23-2008, 01:04 PM

Which would you prefer in a gunfight with a rival druglord, cheap Chinese weapons or rock solid American weapons?

Dr. Strangelove · 06-23-2008, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bukdow

What if there wasn`t a plethora of weapons to fill the planes, boats and trucks with?

Then it wouldn't be America.

Besides with cash those guys are making they also buy a lot of military hardware on the black market.

irishmick79 · 06-23-2008, 01:09 PM

The situation south of the border is a goddamned disaster. You can build as big of a fence as you want, stick as many troops down there as you want, close down as many employers who hire illegals as you want, it won't make a lick of difference to slow down the flow of people coming into the country as long as the dynamic in northern Mexico stays the same.

When the cartels are outgunning the cops and can stand up to the friggin' military, when 5% of the entire mexican economy (some $35 billion) is laundered drug profits, when you already have 300 dead bodies due to drug violence in single border towns for this year alone already, all the enforcement we push on this side of the border won't solve anything. A big crackdown might temporarily slow down illegal immigration, but everybody knows we don't have the manpower or the resources to really sustain it, so people are just going to ride it out and hope they don't get picked up.

bukdow · 06-23-2008, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove

Then it wouldn't be America.

Besides with cash those guys are making they also buy a lot of military hardware on the black market.

Thank you for making my point.

Dr. Strangelove · 06-23-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bukdow

Thank you for making my point.

I'm not really sure what your point is on this one.

spartan80 · 06-23-2008, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove

Well to be fair to the cartels it doesn't make much sense to return those drug running planes, boats and trucks home to Mexico empty. So they fill them up with weapons.

More likely the weapons were paid for with our tax dollars to help the Mexicans fight "the war on drugs" and someone in the Mexican army & police sold them to the drug dealers instead.

Lochgelly · 06-23-2008, 01:47 PM

Fences make good neighbors...build it...make it strong and electrify it...

Don't give me any bs on how long the border is etc...heck we built the dang Panama Canal...we can build a decent fence.

I know it won't be perfect...but it will stop most people.

Negotiator · 06-23-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove

I'm not really sure what your point is on this one.

Neither am I.

irishmick79 · 06-23-2008, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lochgelly

Fences make good neighbors...build it...make it strong and electrify it...

Don't give me any bs on how long the border is etc...heck we built the dang Panama Canal...we can build a decent fence.

I know it won't be perfect...but it will stop most people.

The fence won't stop a damn thing. People will just tunnel under it.

bukdow · 06-23-2008, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove

I'm not really sure what your point is on this one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Negotiator

Neither am I.

The obvious point is that it is not Guatemale, El Salvador, Colombia or Venezuela that is supplying the drug cartels with 90% of its weaponry, but the US. This is directly attributable to the gun culture in the US. Which as you say, without it, it wouldn`t be America.

Its cute when moderators stick together, but it is sad when they exhibit their esprit de corps for the cause of being dense.

Negotiator · 06-23-2008, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bukdow

The obvious point is that it is not Guatemale, El Salvador, Colombia or Venezuela that is supplying the drug cartels with 90% of its weaponry, but the US. This is directly attributable to the gun culture in the US. Which as you say, without it, it wouldn`t be America.

Its cute when moderators stick together, but it is sad when they exhibit their esprit de corps for the cause of being dense.

Doesn't work for two reasons. The first is that I'm usually on the opposite of Strangelove for most issues, so there's no blindly sticking up for each other.

Second, drug rings will get weaponry. This is nothing new. As the situation stands, they get it from here. You've asserted a fact. In other words "what's the point of your point?"

Dr. Strangelove · 06-23-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bukdow

The obvious point is that it is not Guatemale, El Salvador, Colombia or Venezuela that is supplying the drug cartels with 90% of its weaponry, but the US. This is directly attributable to the gun culture in the US. Which as you say, without it, it wouldn`t be America.

Its cute when moderators stick together, but it is sad when they exhibit their esprit de corps for the cause of being dense.

This would be the point where me being a mod really sunk in.

HUT1HUT2 · 06-23-2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bukdow

The drug cartels and the Mexican police/military are in an all out war. Interestingly, 90% of the drug cartels` weapons come from the US.

Why is that surprising

The border is open and the U.S. is home to major weapons makers. It would be interesting if the weapons came from Cuba or Canada.

HUT1HUT2 · 06-23-2008, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bukdow

The obvious point is that it is not Guatemale, El Salvador, Colombia or Venezuela that is supplying the drug cartels with 90% of its weaponry, but the US. This is directly attributable to the gun culture in the US. Which as you say, without it, it wouldn`t be America.

Its cute when moderators stick together, but it is sad when they exhibit their esprit de corps for the cause of being dense.

Hans Klopek · 06-23-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishmick79

The situation south of the border is a goddamned disaster. You can build as big of a fence as you want, stick as many troops down there as you want, close down as many employers who hire illegals as you want, it won't make a lick of difference to slow down the flow of people coming into the country as long as the dynamic in northern Mexico stays the same.
When the cartels are outgunning the cops and can stand up to the friggin' military, when 5% of the entire mexican economy (some $35 billion) is laundered drug profits, when you already have 300 dead bodies due to drug violence in single border towns for this year alone already, all the enforcement we push on this side of the border won't solve anything. A big crackdown might temporarily slow down illegal immigration, but everybody knows we don't have the manpower or the resources to really sustain it, so people are just going to ride it out and hope they don't get picked up.

You really believe that if we had an 38th parallel - style deployment on the southern border, tens of thousands of troops with shoot to kill orders, electric fences, sensors, and armed choppers....we couldn't slow down a bunch of meat packers, drywall installers and pregnant women?

ninowesco · 06-23-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Klopek

You really believe that if we had an 38th parallel - style deployment on the southern border, tens of thousands of troops with shoot to kill orders, electric fences, sensors, and armed choppers....we couldn't slow down a bunch of meat packers, drywall installers and pregnant women?

why do we want to slow them down again?

HUT1HUT2 · 06-23-2008, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Klopek

You really believe that if we had an 38th parallel - style deployment on the southern border, tens of thousands of troops with shoot to kill orders, electric fences, sensors, and armed choppers....we couldn't slow down a bunch of meat packers, drywall installers and pregnant women?

The 38th parallel has worked pretty good.

Lochgelly · 06-23-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishmick79

The fence won't stop a damn thing. People will just tunnel under it.

What if you ditch witch it 6-10 feet underground too...sure they will still dig under it...but with motion sensors and the fact it will take some time to dig that far...we could intercept most of them before they got under...

Fact is...a fence won't stop everyone...but it will stop most of them...

As for the ones already here...reality is that there is NO WAY we can deport all 12.5 million of them...I kind of liked Bush's $5,000 amnesty deal...it could help pay for the fence.

irishmick79 · 06-23-2008, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Klopek

You really believe that if we had an 38th parallel - style deployment on the southern border, tens of thousands of troops with shoot to kill orders, electric fences, sensors, and armed choppers....we couldn't slow down a bunch of meat packers, drywall installers and pregnant women?

Sure, you'll slow illegal immigration down then - how the hell do you justify maintaining it? You simply can't. Not with so many other priorities on the military's plate right now. Nevermind the potential impact of such a decision on the economy. People will be screaming for your head within a month. You really underestimate how sophisticated the smuggling operations have gotten.

Hell, the North Koreans have even managed to tunnel under the parallel to a degree where they could have convoyed down an entire armored division if they had wanted to - they got caught, but still, the point remains that where there's a will, there will be a way.

danb · 06-23-2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishmick79

Sure, you'll slow illegal immigration down then - how the hell do you justify maintaining it? You simply can't. Not with so many other priorities on the military's plate right now. Nevermind the potential impact of such a decision on the economy. People will be screaming for your head within a month. You really underestimate how sophisticated the smuggling operations have gotten.

Hell, the North Koreans have even managed to tunnel under the parallel to a degree where they could have convoyed down an entire armored division if they had wanted to - they got caught, but still, the point remains that where there's a will, there will be a way.

Except in the case you cited where there was a will but turned out not to be a way. Just sayin' that example doesn't exactly support your point. In fact, it might do more support Hans.

bukdow · 06-23-2008, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Negotiator

Doesn't work for two reasons. The first is that I'm usually on the opposite of Strangelove for most issues, so there's no blindly sticking up for each other.

Second, drug rings will get weaponry. This is nothing new. As the situation stands, they get it from here. You've asserted a fact. In other words "what's the point of your point?"

Just another example of the US being a destabilizing presence in the world. From the leakage of its culture, to being the largest arms dealer in the world, the US continues to cause more disruption than all of the "axis of evil" countries combined.

The drug cartels would be hard-pressed to find such rich pickings for their weaponry needs than the US.