tOFFICIAL Libs disgusted by the Slandering of McCain's Military Service thread

[GRR Spartan]

Originally Posted by Ignignokt

You're right - I would be disgusted if libs were slanding McCain's service. It's good that they have not done so.

This year questioning a guy's administrative career in the military is slander.

Talk about a sliding scale.

[greenjoker]

Military career = fly a plane, have fun drinking and womanizing, crash plane, repeat a few times, get captured by enemy, spend time in prison writing a confession.

[AbbottHallAbsyntheDrinker]

How, exactly, do General Clark's remarks qualify as slander?

From Dictionary and Thesaurus - Merriam-Webster Online

Main Entry:

²slander

Function:

noun

Etymology:

Middle English sclaundre, slaundre, from Anglo-French esclandre, alteration of escandle, from Late Latin scandalum stumbling block, offense — more at scandal

Date:

14th century

1 : the utterance of false charges or misrepresentations which defame and damage another's reputation 2 : a false and defamatory oral statement about a person — compare libel

[WBill]

It isn't slander but a cheap shot. Can you imagine an opponent describing Kennedy's military service as consisting of having a PT boat shot out from under him.

[sarcyspice]

Originally Posted by Enrico Palazzo

the actual conversation:

SCHIEFFER: Well, you -- you went so far as to say that you thought John McCain was, quote -- and these are your words -- "untested and untried." And I must say, I had to read that twice, because you're talking about somebody who was a prisoner of war. He was a squadron commander of the largest squadron in the Navy. He's been on the Senate Armed Services Committee for lo these many years -- how can you say that John McCain is untested and untried, General?
CLARK: Because in the matters of national security policy-making, it's a matter of understanding risk. It's a matter of gauging your opponents, and it's a matter of being held accountable. John McCain's never done any of that in his official positions. I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands of millions of others in the Armed Forces as a prisoner of war. He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and he has traveled all over the world. But he hasn't held executive responsibility. That large squadron in the Air -- in the Navy that he commanded, it wasn't a wartime squadron. He hasn't been there and ordered the bombs to fall. He hasn't seen what it's like when diplomats come in and say, "I don't know whether we're going to be able to get this point through or not. Do you want to take the risk? What about your reputation? How do we handle it" --
SCHIEFFER: Well --
CLARK: -- "publicly?" He hasn't made those calls, Bob.
SCHIEFFER: Well -- well, General, maybe he --
CLARK: So --
SCHIEFFER: Could I just interrupt you? If --
CLARK: Sure.
SCHIEFFER: I have to say, Barack Obama has not had any of those experiences either, nor has he ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down. I mean --
CLARK: Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president.

Thank you for putting the entire transcript up....... it puts the whole thing into context..

I don't have a problem with what clark said there...

I see the republicans spin machine and fix noise are making a big deal of this, so I am glad that Clark hasn't taken back his comments....

may have taken him out of the VP conversation though which is a shame

[AbbottHallAbsyntheDrinker]

Originally Posted by WBill

It isn't slander but a cheap shot. Can you imagine an opponent describing Kennedy's military service as consisting of having a PT boat shot out from under him.

Of course I can. I can imagine smiling 2004 Republican convention delegates wearing band-aids with purple hearts painted on them, because it happened. This is American politics. What do you expect?

[GRR Spartan]

Its all about the McCain people keeping the campaign focused on minutiae.

They don't want to talk about Iraq, fuel prices or the economy, tax policy, his voting record or his lock step with Bush2 on major issues.

That's why the RNC hired Tim Griffin and McCain has enlisted the help of Swift Boater Col. George E. "Bud" Day who was very active in the anti-Kerry Swift Boat activities.

Swift Boat lives in 2008

Return of the Swift Boaters

[Dr. Strangelove]

Originally Posted by GRR Spartan

Its all about the McCain people keeping the campaign focused on minutiae.

They don't want to talk about Iraq, fuel prices or the economy, tax policy, his voting record or his lock step with Bush2 on major issues.

That's why the RNC hired Tim Griffin and McCain has enlisted the help of Swift Boater Col. George E. "Bud" Day who was very active in the anti-Kerry Swift Boat activities.

Swift Boat lives in 2008

Return of the Swift Boaters

It's not a Presidential campaign until the Dems decide who their boogeyman is. Looks like they're going to go with at least a partial sequel this year - Famous Dem Boogeymen of the Past:

2004: Karl Rove, Swift Boats, Ohio/Diebold
2000: Karl Rove, Florida/Harris/Jeb
1988: Lee Atwater, Willie Horton

[GRR Spartan]

minutiae minutiae minutiae minutiae minutiae minutiae minutiae minutiae minutiae minutiae

fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear

All we need to know is Swift Vets for Truth, Tim Griffin working for the RNC, the return of Col. "Bud" Day and this:
.

All the phony hand wringing about campaigning by McCain is just an act so enough folks will feel sorry for the old insincere guy. You don't welcome characters like Day to your campaign unless you are getting ready for the same kind of crap that has been thrown at Kerry, Cleland, Duckworth and even McCain himself in 2000.

[spacemaker2]

Originally Posted by Nommad

The republicans opened the war record can of worms last election. Once the genie is out of the bottle, it's difficult to stuff it back in.

However, since McCain is accepting money from the Swift Boaters, I'm not that offended.

It is not difficult and is an issue we need not to bring up. Keep to the economy. We will lose the election if it goes national security because of the way Obama is hiding from his upbringing instead of using it as a strength. His dad is his dad. It is what it is. Remember it is the economy stupid.

[Cuchulainn]

Originally Posted by Trevor Barnes

When did anybody say that McCain's military service solely disqualifies him to be president?

I respect McCain for his service to our country. One would think that being a POW and serving in the military would qualify him to have sound judgment on foreign affairs. That apparently isn't true based on how he's stood hand in hand with Bush on this Iraq fiasco since the beginning of the war. 100 more years in Iraq...

Remind me, wasn't McCain one of the first senators to call for Rumsfeld to be fired? How about his criticism of how the war was being run? He also called for the troop surge which has caused a dramatic reduction in casualties.

Yep, he has stood hand in hand with Bush the whole way.

[Polynikes]

Originally Posted by greenjoker

Military career = fly a plane, have fun drinking and womanizing, crash plane, repeat a few times, get captured by enemy, spend time in prison writing a confession.

Disgusting.

Take a peek at what really happened (especially in prison) then apologize immediately.

[Polynikes]

Originally Posted by Cuchulainn

Remind me, wasn't McCain one of the first senators to call for Rumsfeld to be fired? How about his criticism of how the war was being run? He also called for the troop surge which has caused a dramatic reduction in casualties.

Yep, he has stood hand in with Bush the whole way.

Yes. He's been the ranking member of the Senate Armed Service Committee.

What you are seeing here is the democrats know full well that they are going against a guy with a WEALTH of foreign policy experience.

Not to mention that he's extremely popular among the military (wesley clark an exception).

Against him, they are running a guy with no foreign policy experience.

That is why you see the surrogates like clark and rockefeller out making ridiculous comments.

[Polynikes]

Originally Posted by spacemaker2

It is not difficult and is an issue we need not to bring up. Keep to the economy. We will lose the election if it goes national security because of the way Obama is hiding from his upbringing instead of using it as a strength. His dad is his dad. It is what it is. Remember it is the economy stupid.

I partially agree. I don't think the democrats can win on the economy alone. You guys just don't have a clue how to fix the downturn.

But, I think it's one hell of a lot easier to make inroads into the economy than it is to try to go one on one with McCain regarding foreign policy.

You'll lose that every time.

obama has exactly zero credentials in that area. Both in his background and in his political career.

It's my opinion that he'll have to find someone with foreign policy experience as his VP. Bush had the same problem back in 2000. But, he, flew jets in the guard. He at least was around his father.

obama has no experience with the military at all and no mentor. Oh, unless you count Rev. wright, or bill ayers.

[greenjoker]

Originally Posted by WBill

It isn't slander but a cheap shot. Can you imagine an opponent describing Kennedy's military service as consisting of having a PT boat shot out from under him.

If Kennedy lost multiple ships the way that McCain crashed multiple planes then people might well have questioned his naval career.

[sarcyspice]

Originally Posted by Polynikes

Yes. He's been the ranking member of the Senate Armed Service Committee.

What you are seeing here is the democrats know full well that they are going against a guy with a WEALTH of foreign policy experience.

Not to mention that he's extremely popular among the military (wesley clark an exception).

Against him, they are running a guy with no foreign policy experience.

That is why you see the surrogates like clark and rockefeller out making ridiculous comments.

Originally Posted by Enrico Palazzo

the actual conversation:

SCHIEFFER: Well, you -- you went so far as to say that you thought John McCain was, quote -- and these are your words -- "untested and untried." And I must say, I had to read that twice, because you're talking about somebody who was a prisoner of war. He was a squadron commander of the largest squadron in the Navy. He's been on the Senate Armed Services Committee for lo these many years -- how can you say that John McCain is untested and untried, General?
CLARK: Because in the matters of national security policy-making, it's a matter of understanding risk. It's a matter of gauging your opponents, and it's a matter of being held accountable. John McCain's never done any of that in his official positions. I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands of millions of others in the Armed Forces as a prisoner of war. He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and he has traveled all over the world. But he hasn't held executive responsibility. That large squadron in the Air -- in the Navy that he commanded, it wasn't a wartime squadron. He hasn't been there and ordered the bombs to fall. He hasn't seen what it's like when diplomats come in and say, "I don't know whether we're going to be able to get this point through or not. Do you want to take the risk? What about your reputation? How do we handle it" --
SCHIEFFER: Well --
CLARK: -- "publicly?" He hasn't made those calls, Bob.
SCHIEFFER: Well -- well, General, maybe he --
CLARK: So --
SCHIEFFER: Could I just interrupt you? If --
CLARK: Sure.
SCHIEFFER: I have to say, Barack Obama has not had any of those experiences either, nor has he ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down. I mean --
CLARK: Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president.

okay... polynikes..

I put your post above the actual transcript

Can you point out the bit in the actual transcript that is factually incorrect please....

thanking you in advance for finding it... because for some reason I am having trouble

[Polynikes]

Originally Posted by sarcyspice

okay... polynikes..

I put your post above the actual transcript

Can you point out the bit in the actual transcript that is factually incorrect please....

thanking you in advance for finding it... because for some reason I am having trouble

No problem.

PolitiFact | McCain ran a Navy unit of 1,000 people

An executive job

Clark’s larger point is correct: McCain has accomplished a lot in his storied military and political career, but he has relatively little executive experience.

But still, Clark, who ran for president in 2004, was incorrect to say that McCain “hasn’t held executive responsibility.” His tenure at the RAG shows that McCain not only held an executive post in which he managed a staff of 1,000 and oversaw a fleet of 75 planes, but he earned positive reviews for his performance. When McCain departed, the unit was given its first-ever Meritorious Unit Citation.

So we find Clark’s claim to be False.

I'd appreciate it if YOU would read the whole article. Not just what I've quoted.

Thanks, and you are welcome.

[LA_Spartan]

Originally Posted by Polynikes

What you are seeing here is the democrats know full well that they are going against a guy with a WEALTH of foreign policy experience.

I think you are confusing military experience with foreign policy experience.

[Li'l Ze]

Originally Posted by dru

If that's slandering his military service then the Swiftboaters should be in Guantanamo for what they said about Kerry. I'm sorry, but this is not even in the same ballpark.

It's obvious the republicans don't want to have an honest debate about McCain's military record, and how specifically that qualifies him to be president. To that end, they're just going to cry Swiftboat every time somebody says "POW" I guess. Politics.

Totally agree, on a scale from 1-10, this is a 1. The swift-boating was a 10 - flat out lying about Kerry's war record. Kerry was and is a war hero.

I can only imagine what the jack-ass swift boaters would have done to "AWOL" Bush had he been a democrat.