tOFFICIAL Libs disgusted by the Slandering of McCain's Military Service thread

[War-Spartans]

I hated the Swiftboaters, I hated W in South Carolina in 2000 doing it and I hate that my party and my Candidate are doing it now....The guy was a friggin POW for 5 years and he can't lift his arm because of it....Attack all his flaws but stay away from this issue please

[Nommad]

The republicans opened the war record can of worms last election. Once the genie is out of the bottle, it's difficult to stuff it back in.

However, since McCain is accepting money from the Swift Boaters, I'm not that offended.

[Final Countdown]

ugh, american politics is so dirty. veteran status used to be an honored and even untouchable issue. i can see this campaign getting dirtier by the day.

[dru]

Originally Posted by War-Spartans

I hated the Swiftboaters, I hated W in South Carolina in 2000 doing it and I hate that my party and my Candidate are doing it now....The guy was a friggin POW for 5 years and he can't lift his arm because of it....Attack all his flaws but stay away from this issue please

A link to whoever is "slandering his service" would be nice.

All I've heard so far is people pointing out that being a POW does not necessarily make someone a foreign policy expert, as McCain seems to claim it does.

[Enrico Palazzo]

Originally Posted by dru

A link to whoever is "slandering his service" would be nice.

All I've heard so far is people pointing out that being a POW does not necessarily make someone a foreign policy expert, as McCain seems to claim it does.

please don't point out the truth of these statements, dru.

Besides, a military man saying that being a POW doesn't necessarily make one a foreign policy expert is much, much worse than running commercials claiming a Vet is actually a coward, traitor, and faked his injuries.

[Tom Hagen]

Originally Posted by dru

A link to whoever is "slandering his service" would be nice.

All I've heard so far is people pointing out that being a POW does not necessarily make someone a foreign policy expert, as McCain seems to claim it does.

I don't think that is exactly what was said. I think it was (and I am paraphrasing) that "being a POW does not give one the necessary credentials to be Commander and Chief."

For the record I don't think McCain has ever claimed or insinuated that his experience makes him a "foreign policy expert." He is proud of it as he should be, and brings it up with some degree of frequency.....just as Obama brings up his "mixed race" with some degree of frequency.

[Enrico Palazzo]

Originally Posted by Tom Hagen

I don't think that is exactly what was said. I think it was (and I am paraphrasing) that "being a POW does not give one the necessary credentials to be Commander and Chief."

For the record I don't think McCain has ever claimed or insinuated that his experience makes him a "foreign policy expert." He is proud of it as he should be, and brings it up with some degree of frequency.....just as Obama brings up his "mixed race" with some degree of frequency.

the actual conversation:

SCHIEFFER: Well, you -- you went so far as to say that you thought John McCain was, quote -- and these are your words -- "untested and untried." And I must say, I had to read that twice, because you're talking about somebody who was a prisoner of war. He was a squadron commander of the largest squadron in the Navy. He's been on the Senate Armed Services Committee for lo these many years -- how can you say that John McCain is untested and untried, General?
CLARK: Because in the matters of national security policy-making, it's a matter of understanding risk. It's a matter of gauging your opponents, and it's a matter of being held accountable. John McCain's never done any of that in his official positions. I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands of millions of others in the Armed Forces as a prisoner of war. He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and he has traveled all over the world. But he hasn't held executive responsibility. That large squadron in the Air -- in the Navy that he commanded, it wasn't a wartime squadron. He hasn't been there and ordered the bombs to fall. He hasn't seen what it's like when diplomats come in and say, "I don't know whether we're going to be able to get this point through or not. Do you want to take the risk? What about your reputation? How do we handle it" --
SCHIEFFER: Well --
CLARK: -- "publicly?" He hasn't made those calls, Bob.
SCHIEFFER: Well -- well, General, maybe he --
CLARK: So --
SCHIEFFER: Could I just interrupt you? If --
CLARK: Sure.
SCHIEFFER: I have to say, Barack Obama has not had any of those experiences either, nor has he ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down. I mean --
CLARK: Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president.

[ninowesco]

we have to fight fire with fire

they will stop at nothing to win and if they do they will continue to destroy our country

it's our obligation that we fight to win at all costs, for the good of the country

I will be strong and attack his poor military record at every opportunity

[Tom Hagen]

I didn't do the "research" but I think my paraphrase summed up what everyone has been bitching about

"Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president."

[Dr. Strangelove]

Great article on Slate about this.... Democrats attack McCain's war record. McCain rejoices. - By Christopher Beam - Slate Magazine

On Sunday's Face the Nation, Obama supporter retired Gen. Wesley Clark, remarkably, went there: "I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president." (Full context here.) So did liberal blogger John Aravosis, writing that "[g]etting shot down, tortured, and then doing propaganda for the enemy is not command experience." On Monday, former Obama adviser Rand Beers argued that McCain's isolation as a POW limited his insight on national security issues.

As Obama and his surrogates should know, any chance McCain has to talk about his military service is a net positive for the Arizona senator, especially if it's in the context of an "attack." So far in the campaign, Obama has been hogging all the umbrage. He started a site to refute e-mail smears; he took offense when a Republican congressman referred to him as "that boy"; he cries foul every time someone uses his middle name. Now McCain gets to show that Obama's not the only one being attacked unfairly.

But the best part about McCain's defense? It doubles as offense.

McCain's camp has experience fielding potshots at his military career. Back in April, Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., essentially denounced McCain for being a fighter pilot: "What happened when they [the missiles] get to the ground? He doesn't know. You have to care about the lives of people. McCain never gets into those issues." McCain took public offense; Rockefeller apologized.

Obama's camp is in a bind. On the one hand, Clark's point—that being a prisoner of war has little bearing on one's ability to be commander in chief of the United States—is defensible. It would be political suicide, though, for Obama to say so. The best strategy would be a full-out denunciation of attacks on McCain's record—but only if his supporters actually cut it out.

[ninowesco]

it's a weakness for mccain

it shows that he rode in on his daddy's coattails and that even further links him to bush

[dru]

Originally Posted by Tom Hagen

I didn't do the "research" but I think my paraphrase summed up what everyone has been bitching about

"Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president."

If that's slandering his military service then the Swiftboaters should be in Guantanamo for what they said about Kerry. I'm sorry, but this is not even in the same ballpark.

It's obvious the republicans don't want to have an honest debate about McCain's military record, and how specifically that qualifies him to be president. To that end, they're just going to cry Swiftboat every time somebody says "POW" I guess. Politics.

[Tom Hagen]

Originally Posted by dru

If that's slandering his military service then the Swiftboaters should be in Guantanamo for what they said about Kerry. I'm sorry, but this is not even in the same ballpark.

It's obvious the republicans don't want to have an honest debate about McCain's military record, and how specifically that qualifies him to be president. To that end, they're just going to cry Swiftboat every time somebody says "POW" I guess. Politics.

Jebus dru.....chill the F out. I don't think Clark said anything wrong. I don't think it was an attack on his "war record". In fact he held up McCain as a hero. He just said being a hero (again paraphrasing if anyone else feels the urge to insert the exact wording used) doesn't give one the qualifications for president.

[GRR Spartan]

There is a significant difference in what Clark said about McCain's administrative and command experience and what the Swift Boat group spread about Kerry or what the GOP operatives said about Tammy Duckworth or what they said about Max Cleland.

The McCain camp and the GOP is trying very hard to equate the Clark remarks to Swift Boating because they loved the fight when no one hit back. Kerry should have responded with the same scorched earth style that the GOP operatives threw at him.

I have a hunch the McCain camp knows the Chicago based Obama campaign isn't going to sit back and hope it goes away.

I don't like the Swift Boat tactics but there is a reason the McCain campaign is accepting the help of the RNC who hired Karl Rove understudy Tim Griffin and it wasn't because he writes wonderful speeches.

Jonathan Martin's Blog: Griffin to advise RNC - Politico.com

[Polynikes]

Originally Posted by War-Spartans

I hated the Swiftboaters, I hated W in South Carolina in 2000 doing it and I hate that my party and my Candidate are doing it now....The guy was a friggin POW for 5 years and he can't lift his arm because of it....Attack all his flaws but stay away from this issue please

Good for you. We've had our differences in the past (and will again), but, I give you credit here.

I also was uncomfortable with anyone who wasn't there attacking kerry's service record. I didn't have any trouble, however, when they attacked the f...... for the things he said when he got back.

Second, clark is only the tip of the iceberg. There have been other obama surrogates who have made much worse comments.

Dr. Strangelove's article showed some of them. There are others.

As a matter of fact, check out some of the "insert bannable adjective" posters on this board.

[Natron the Spartan]

Originally Posted by Final Countdown

ugh, american politics is so dirty. veteran status used to be an honored and even untouchable issue. i can see this campaign getting dirtier by the day.

I agree.



What Republicans did to this guy was disgusting.

[Vlad_the_Impaler]

I agree 100% with W. Clark's comments. He responded to a question by Schiffer, and yes, getting shot down DOES NOT qualify one to be President.

As far as this race getting dirty, let it! Poll after poll has shown that, while the voters complain about dirty politics, THEY ALSO RESPOND TO DIRTY POLITICS. I just hope that Obama's camp stays on the offensive by throwing the mud first. It works.

[Cuchulainn]

Obama surrogates attack McCain's military experience.


A young Barack Obama in the 1960s.


John McCain after 7 years of Communist torture.

[Trevor Barnes]

Clark didn't attack McCain's military service. He questioned whether that military service qualified McCain to be President.