What do you conservatives think of this MI ballot proposal?

[VP Sarah Palin]

Turned in nearly 500k signatures...

The grab bag of reforms would:
• Slash the Senate from 38 to 28 members, the House from 110 to 82 members, the Supreme Court from seven to five justices and the state appeals court from 28 to 21 judges; add 10 judges to lower courts.
• Cut state government from 20 to 18 departments.
• Set up a nine-member commission for legislative redistricting, four from each party with a nonpartisan leader. Now, the party in power controls the process.
• Allow anyone to vote absentee. Now, you have to be sick, elderly or otherwise unable to get to the polls.
• Allow people to vote in primaries without declaring a party affiliation.
• Strengthen a ban against voting by illegal immigrants.
• Cut the salaries of lawmakers, the governor, lieutenant governor, attorney general and secretary of state 25 percent, and Supreme Court justices and judges 15 percent.
• Limit retirement benefits for all state elected officials to no more than what retired state employees get.
• Require legislators, the governor, lieutenant governor, attorney general, secretary of state and justices and judges each year to report their incomes and assets, as well as those of their spouses.
• Ban lawmakers and top government officials from lobbying for two years after they leave office.

The reform proposal, which has been under the political radar and caught most elected officials by surprise, will face strong opposition from the likes of the Michigan Republican Party, Michigan Chamber of Commerce and many lawmakers, some of whom could lose their jobs under the far-reaching plan. It has the support of organized labor and the Michigan Democratic Party, which sources say were instrumental in its drafting.

[Final Countdown]

not conservative, but i like it. seems like its too far-reaching to be approved. its all over the place.

[sprtnbrn]

Liberal here and would've never signed that garbage (certainly won't vote for it). Some of the individual measures are fine. The proposal in total is a disaster. Let's look at each measure in general:

1. I have no problem with cutting the size of the state Senate. I have a major problem with cutting the size of the state house. It will get more costly to campaign. Constituent service issues will take longer (unless you add staff to each state rep's office). The Supreme Court cut sounds like whining by the Dems that we can't have a majority in the court. The State appeals court cut is a disaster waiting to happen.

2. Sounds fine but I'd like more details.

3. Sounds fine but I'm extremely skeptical of where they're going to find this "non-partisan" leader considering even the judges are nominated by the political parties.

4. Basically that already exists. I've voted absentee plenty of times without being sick or elderly. All you have to do is say that won't have a chance to vote on election day at your polling place The way the proposal is worded is another disaster waiting to happen (hello, voter fraud).

5. No. No. No. The whole point of the primary system is that the party gets to nominate their respective candidates for November. Ticket-splitting shouldn't be allowed. Otherwise, it isn't necessarily the choice of the party.

6. Sounds good.

7. Wait a minute, you're making the legislators' districts larger and giving them less money? That is beyond insane.

8. Sounds fine.

9. Trust me. That wouldn't be a good idea.

10. So the lobbyists can't hire someone who might be qualified immediately if they desire?

I hate the system but this will make things worse.

5.

[LoneWolfSparty®]

Keep the pay cuts, throw the rest of that proposal out.

[Statepug]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfSparty®

Keep the pay cuts, throw the rest of that proposal out.

Keep the retirement benefits parts to match what state employees get now. No way in hell should a legislator get a lifetime of benefits for two terms in office.

[LoneWolfSparty®]

Originally Posted by Statepug

Keep the retirement benefits parts to match what state employees get now. No way in hell should a legislator get a lifetime of benefits for two terms in office.

Agreed.

[PRStoetzer]

My take:

This is way too large of a ballot proposal. If you want to rewrite the Constitution of 1963, there is a process for convening a constitutional convention.

[sprtnbrn]

Originally Posted by PRStoetzer

My take:

This is way too large of a ballot proposal. If you want to rewrite the Constitution of 1963, there is a process for convening a constitutional convention.

The sickening part is that the voters in Michigan might just be dumb enough to vote for that garbage proposal. They'll see the pay cuts and not even realize the longterm consequences of this sucker.

[AvgMSUJoe]

Originally Posted by PRStoetzer

My take:

This is way too large of a ballot proposal. If you want to rewrite the Constitution of 1963, there is a process for convening a constitutional convention.

Yeah, Put it in front of the people...

That's how crazy **** gets done in MI. The pols would never reform by themselves.

[LA_Spartan]

The grab bag of reforms would:
• Slash the Senate from 38 to 28 members, the House from 110 to 82 members, the Supreme Court from seven to five justices and the state appeals court from 28 to 21 judges; add 10 judges to lower courts.

This part is a good start. Go to a unicameral legislature. U.S. Senate gives small states equal representation. Mich. Senate is simply a smaller version of the House.

However, we do need more circuit court Judges.

• Set up a nine-member commission for legislative redistricting, four from each party with a nonpartisan leader. Now, the party in power controls the process.

Not a bad idea, although it will probably still end up in the courts.

Allow people to vote in primaries without declaring a party affiliation.

Wouldn't this force the Dems to violate DNC rules (again)?

• Strengthen a ban against voting by illegal immigrants.

WTF is this doing in here?

• Cut the salaries of lawmakers, the governor, lieutenant governor, attorney general and secretary of state 25 percent, and Supreme Court justices and judges 15 percent.

Governor $172K
AG/SOS $125K
SC Judge $164K
Circuit Judge $135K
House/Senate $80K

These folks are not overpaid. You want quality elected officials, you have to give them a decent salary. Most can make far more in the private sector.

Require legislators, the governor, lieutenant governor, attorney general, secretary of state and justices and judges each year to report their incomes and assets, as well as those of their spouses.

Maybe just the Governor, AG, SOS and SC.

[TheDoctorIsIn]

It pushes several good ideas too far and adds a bunch of wacky ones. They'd have been better focusing on just one or two big concerns and save the rest for another election, or a different proposal.

[jeffswitzer30]

i like most of it. I would line item veto a couple though.

[Statepug]

Just have a constitutional convention to rewrite all that these people want rewritten. It would accomplish much of the same, but with a (hopefully) saner approach.

[Cuchulainn]

Originally Posted by TheDoctorIsIn

It pushes several good ideas too far and adds a bunch of wacky ones. They'd have been better focusing on just one or two big concerns and save the rest for another election, or a different proposal.

I agree. Also the cutting the number of senators and representitives must be done carefully.

If the cuts were to happen districts would have to be reformed. This could be done in a way to give advantage to one party over another. (similar to what the republicans did in Texas).

[DeHannen]

Eliminate the Senate all together.

Keep the salaries alone, the reduction in salaries is nothing but symbolic.

I would ban law makers from lobbying for twenty years, make it a felony if they did.

I would eliminate ALL retirement benefits from legislative service. You want to match a 401k, well alright, but that's it. I don't want career politicians. I want storekeepers, shop owners, hell even a soccer mom or two if it meant getting rid of these career politicians.

[GRR Spartan]

Even Granholm isn't jumping on board. She, like myself likes the idea of a constitutional convention,

I would like to see a unicameral legislature (fewer elections, political positions, staffs), elimination of term limits (will force people to work together knowing there is a possibility that the same people will be back next term and stop the wives following husband crap we see now).

Another twist is to make government pension benefits like health care require 20+ years rather than the current low threshold that gives legislators lifetime health insurance for them and their spouses after less than 10 years.

Fewer people should mean fewer judges.

No part time. All that does is open the door for more special interests to create make work jobs for particular legislators and foster even more lobbyist input.

[Nommad]

Everything sounds pretty good, but who would be the "non-partisan leader" of the redistricting? I also think you should declare a political party to vote in a primary.

[VP Sarah Palin]

PS - there's some hidden text I put in white under the OP (last night) for your added digestion. I wanted to see your responses before telling you about it though

[SD Spartan]

Originally Posted by #1

PS - there's some hidden text I put in white under the OP (last night) for your added digestion. I wanted to see your responses before telling you about it though

Holy crap....that hidden text thing is the only cool thing you have ever posted...now if we could only get some others to hide their comments..

oh yea, this is what is wrong with the Republican party. While some of the points are off base, much of this sounds pretty conservative...less govt, less spending. They should be jumping on board and editing out a few of the stupid points like reducing judges.

[Statepug]

Originally Posted by #1

PS - there's some hidden text I put in white under the OP (last night) for your added digestion. I wanted to see your responses before telling you about it though

Big win for the democrats if this goes through. They'll pretty much own the state of Michigan.

[WixomSpartan]

Originally Posted by PRStoetzer

My take:

This is way too large of a ballot proposal. If you want to rewrite the Constitution of 1963, there is a process for convening a constitutional convention.

Agreed. This proposal looks like an omnibus bill. A little bit of pork for everyone to get it passed...

[VP Sarah Palin]

Democrats' strategy to gain control of state uncovered | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press

[sprtnbrn]

Originally Posted by #1

Democrats' strategy to gain control of state uncovered | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press

I could care less who the bill benefits. It's a bill that has some terrible provisions. If it sees the ballot in November, I'll vote "No" without hesitating.