What's the definition of a flip-flop?

Negotiator · 07-17-2008, 01:06 PM

It can't just be the act of changing one's mind on a stance. So help a mod out, where does changing one's mind on something end and flip-flopping begin?

MichState04 · 07-17-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Negotiator

It can't just be the act of changing one's mind on a stance. So help a mod out, where does changing one's mind on something end and flip-flopping begin?

My definition of a flip-flopper is one who changes his opinion over and over again depending on who they are talking to.

Changing their mind because of learning new developments or good reasonis not a big deal and not a flip-flop.

Bob Sakimano · 07-17-2008, 01:30 PM

here is the way the mainstream media defines it:

democrat tweaks his position - flip flop

republican tweaks his position - his ideas have evolved

Polynikes · 07-17-2008, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Negotiator

It can't just be the act of changing one's mind on a stance. So help a mod out, where does changing one's mind on something end and flip-flopping begin?

iran is not a grave threat. Two days later to an Israeli group, iran is a grave threat.

As Mich04 stated, it's changing your stance based on who you talk to.

Or, finishing up a primary, realizing that you can't win with just the far left, then voting for the recent FISA provisions.

Bob Sakimano · 07-17-2008, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polynikes

iran is not a grave threat. Two days later to an Israeli group, iran is a grave threat.

As Mich04 stated, it's changing your stance based on who you talk to.

Or, finishing up a primary, realizing that you can't win with just the far left, then voting for the recent FISA provisions.

I would assume that you think that McCain's (the former POW in Vietnam) positions have "evolved"..

greenjoker · 07-17-2008, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Sakimano

here is the way the mainstream media defines it:

democrat tweaks his position - flip flop

republican tweaks his position - his ideas have evolved

Republicans are focused and unmovable - Dems are shifty and changeable.

Polynikes · 07-17-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenjoker

Republicans are focused and unmovable - Dems are shifty and changeable.

Wait a sec, didn't bob just run his hole about McCain's evolving positions?

Wouldn't you say something like changing his stance on offshore drilling is "moveable?"

I liked the shifty comment. Reminds me of guys with beady eyes, nasal voices, and having no true convictions.

Polynikes · 07-17-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Sakimano

I would assume that you think that McCain's (the former POW in Vietnam) positions have "evolved"..

Yep, and I'm glad for it. However, he really is evolving. For instance, offshore drilling and illegal immigration.

He's said that he has heard the American people loud and clear on those issues.

What's obama's excuse for his recent flip-flops?

Here is a great summary of the difference: WHY THE RACE IS TIED at DickMorris.com

Quote:

Obama has carried flip-flopping to new heights. In the space of a month and a half, this candidate - who we don’t really yet know very well - reversed or sharply modified his positions on at least eight key issues:

• After vowing to eschew private fundraising and take public financing, he has now refused public money.

• Once he threatened to filibuster a bill to protect telephone companies from liability for their cooperation with national security wiretaps; now he has voted for the legislation.

• Turning his back on a lifetime of support for gun control, he now recognizes a Second Amendment right to bear arms in the wake of the Supreme Court decision.

• Formerly, he told the Israeli lobby that he favored an undivided Jerusalem. Now he says he didn’t mean it.

• From a 100 percent pro-choice position, he now has migrated to expressing doubts about allowing partial-birth abortions.

• For the first time, he now speaks highly of using church-based institutions to deliver public services to the poor.

• Having based his entire campaign on withdrawal from Iraq, he now pledges to consult with the military first.

• During the primary, he backed merit pay for teachers - but before the union a few weeks ago, he opposed it.

• After specifically saying in the primaries that he disagreed with Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton’s (D-N.Y.) proposal to impose Social Security taxes on income over $200,000 and wanted to tax all income, he has now adopted the Clinton position.

Obama’s breathtaking flips and flops are materially different from McCain’s. While McCain had opposed offshore oil drilling and now supports it, the facts have obviously changed. Obama’s shifts have nothing to do with altered circumstances, just a change in the political calendar.

Bob Sakimano · 07-17-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polynikes

Yep, and I'm glad for it. However, he really is evolving. For instance, offshore drilling and illegal immigration.

so no flip-flopping for McCain - just "evolving" -

He's said that he has heard the American people loud and clear on those issues.

Quote:

What's obama's excuse for his recent flip-flops?

Here is a great summary of the difference: WHY THE RACE IS TIED at DickMorris.com

yeah - and Dick Morris - the Fox News Contributer - is a real independent source of information...

Green Cheesiest™ · 07-17-2008, 02:28 PM

A flip flop is really just a sandal....but it can be a lifetime of foot enjoyment if taken care of properly....

Bob Sakimano · 07-17-2008, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Cheesiest™

A flip flop is really just a sandal....but it can be a lifetime of foot enjoyment if taken care of properly....

CHEESE IS IN THE HOUSE!!

Polynikes · 07-17-2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Sakimano

so no flip-flopping for McCain - just "evolving" -

He's said that he has heard the American people loud and clear on those issues.

yeah - and Dick Morris - the Fox News Contributer - is a real independent source of information...

I wonder what White House occupant he was campaign manager for? I believe it was 1996? HMMMMM.

I wonder who was rumored to have the most sway over said occupant of anyone in 1995?
HMMMMMMM

I wonder whose phone calls he was listening in on with his prostitute friend? HMMMMMM.

I love catching you lefties in your immature tactic of attacking the messenger.

It's best when said messenger has a wide range of political connections including to one of your past favorites.

P.S. He is a brillant and that article was right on. (In case you actually wanted to discuss the issues).