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Wells Hall Off-topic Board Politics, Religion, and Social Issues. This board is your pulpit to preach to the masses (like the Wells Hall preacher) about everything from politics to religion. Please be kind to your fellow Spartans. Post as if your family is in the other computer.

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Old 07-23-2008, 02:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Massive Taxpayer Bailout - Act Now!!

Our politicans are at it again. This time they are about to perpetrate one of the great frauds ever on the American taxpayer. From Henry Paulson (self-serving piece of total crap) on the right to Barney Frank (one of the true idiots in the House) on the left, we as taxpayers are about to take a serious hit to our wallets. A $300 billion rescue bill for Fannie/Freddie, housing, mortgage, Treasury, Fed, Wall St, Washington, rich investors and foreign governments. It has the following provisions:
  • raising the Federal debt ceiling to $10.6 trillion from the current $9.815 trillion.
  • make unlimited equity purchases in Fannie and Freddie.
  • “unspecified” increases in their lines of credit, from $2.25 billion each. (he spoke of $300 billion)
  • $3.9 billion to communities for the purchase of foreclosed properties. Officials have said it would aid lenders who now owned the vacated properties rather than struggling homeowners. (In the state of CA alone last month banks took back $10.2 billion so this is just a waste of money)
  • provides for the Federal Reserve to consult on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac finances
  • help an estimated 400,000 Americans with subprime home loans refinance into 30-year, fixed-rate mortgages backed by the government (a larger subprime dumping ground)
  • new, higher cap on the size of mortgages they may purchase. The new limit would be $625,000, or the median home price plus 15 percent, whichever is lower (artificially supports pricing making it longer for the market to clear)
  • States would be able to offer an additional $11 billion of mortgage-revenue bonds to refinance subprime loans
  • create a version of Europe’s market for covered bonds in the U.S. (sales of this same debt have fallen to a six-month low and prices have dropped 2.5 percent this year)
Lawmakers Agree on Outline of Big Housing Pact - WSJ.com

When will this nonsense end!!! Are we going to tolerate this from our elected representitives. Paulson now says the global economy depends on the US taxpayer. If the man had a shred of integrity, he would say that it is his power group that depends on it. The fact is that China, Russia, and India, which have never been allies of the Paulson group, are enjoying the fruits of strong economies, despite America, and they really don’t need the largesse of the US taxpayer. I feel like I am about to get raped.

A call to arms -- as a US taxpayer, call your federal representatives today and tell them that if any of them voted for the Paulson package, you wouldn't be voting for or financially supporting them ever again. To help understand more about the issue, follow the attached link.

The Market Ticker
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"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit (debt) expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit (debt) expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."

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Old 07-23-2008, 03:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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If ChicagoMark is against it then I am for it.
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Old 07-23-2008, 03:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm telling all of you who read this board and who have followed my posts on the real threat of a Great(er) Depression that this bill is a first big step toward that end. The history books on the Great Depression and other economic collapses around the word are replete with examples of how government policies exacerbated the problems.

As I have said, this housing and economic collaspe will last another 2-3 yrs. unless the governement gets involved. It will then last for 10.
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"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit (debt) expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit (debt) expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."

- Ludwig von Mises
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Old 07-23-2008, 03:04 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolfSparty® View Post
If ChicagoMark is against it then I am for it.
Then you are either a communist or a socialist. If you believed in free markets you would oppose this with every cell of your being. Peerhaps all the liberal bashing is a ploy.
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"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit (debt) expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit (debt) expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."

- Ludwig von Mises
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Old 07-23-2008, 03:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoMark View Post
Then you are either a communist or a socialist. If you believed in free markets you would oppose this with every cell of your being. Peerhaps all the liberal bashing is a ploy.
Yea, LWS is all for increased taxes.
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Old 07-23-2008, 03:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Yea, LWS is all for increased taxes.

No but he is quite ignorant
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Old 07-23-2008, 04:33 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoMark View Post
Then you are either a communist or a socialist. If you believed in free markets you would oppose this with every cell of your being. Peerhaps all the liberal bashing is a ploy.
LWS is even to the left of me on this. I still don't agree with your characterization of this as a move towards communism/socialism. But I don't support this bailout whatever you want to call it.
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When societies are changing quickly, the media and the people are naturally focused on big "P" politics - who gets the top appointments, what was said in the most recent speech. Meanwhile, safe from public scrutiny, far reaching pro-corporate policies are locked into place, dramatically restricting future possibilities for real change. - Naomi Klein
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Old 07-23-2008, 04:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoMark View Post
Our politicans are at it again. This time they are about to perpetrate one of the great frauds ever on the American taxpayer. A call to arms -- as a US taxpayer, call your federal representatives today and tell them that if any of them voted for the Paulson package, you wouldn't be voting for or financially supporting them ever again. To help understand more about the issue, follow the attached link.

The Market Ticker
Thanks Mark. Your a great American.

House Contacts:

Quote:
A


Abercrombie, Neil, Hawaii, 1st Ackerman, Gary, New York, 5th
Aderholt, Robert, Alabama, 4th Akin, Todd, Missouri, 2nd
Alexander, Rodney, Louisiana, 5th Allen, Tom, Maine, 1st
Altmire, Jason, Pennsylvania, 4th Andrews, Robert E., New Jersey, 1st
Arcuri, Michael A., New York, 24th
^ return to top
B


Baca, Joe, California, 43rd Bachmann, Michele, Minnesota, 6th
Bachus, Spencer, Alabama, 6th Baird, Brian, Washington, 3rd

Baldwin, Tammy, Wisconsin, 2nd
Barrett, J.Gresham, South Carolina, 3rd Barrow, John, Georgia, 12th
Bartlett, Roscoe, Maryland, 6th Barton, Joe, Texas, 6th
Bean, Melissa L., Illinois, 8th Becerra, Xavier, California, 31st
Berkley, Shelley, Nevada, 1st Berman, Howard, California, 28th
Berry, Marion, Arkansas, 1st Biggert, Judy, Illinois, 13th
Bilbray, Brian P., California, 50th Bilirakis, Gus M., Florida, 9th
Bishop, Rob, Utah, 1st Bishop Jr., Sanford D., Georgia, 2nd
Bishop, Timothy, New York, 1st Blackburn, Marsha, Tennessee, 7th
Blumenauer, Earl, Oregon, 3rd Blunt, Roy, Missouri, 7th
Boehner, John A., Ohio, 8th Bonner, Jo, Alabama, 1st
Bono, Mary, California, 45th Boozman, John, Arkansas, 3rd
Bordallo, Madeleine, Guam Boren, Dan, Oklahoma, 2nd
Boswell, Leonard, Iowa, 3rd Boucher, Rick, Virginia, 9th
Boustany Jr., Charles W., Louisiana, 7th Boyd, Allen, Florida, 2nd
Boyda, Nancy E., Kansas, 2nd Brady, Kevin, Texas, 8th
Brady, Robert, Pennsylvania, 1st Braley, Bruce L., Iowa, 1st
Broun, Paul C., Georgia, 10th Brown, Corrine, Florida, 3rd
Brown, Henry, South Carolina, 1st Brown-Waite, Virginia, Florida, 5th
Buchanan, Vern, Florida, 13th Burgess, Michael, Texas, 26th
Burton, Dan, Indiana, 5th Butterfield, G.K., North Carolina, 1st
Buyer, Steve, Indiana, 4th
^ return to top
C


Calvert, Ken, California, 44th Camp, Dave, Michigan, 4th
Campbell, John, California, 48th Cannon, Chris, Utah, 3rd
Cantor, Eric, Virginia, 7th Capito, Shelley Moore, West Virginia, 2nd
Capps, Lois, California, 23rd Capuano, Michael E., Massachusetts, 8th
Cardoza, Dennis, California, 18th Carnahan, Russ, Missouri, 3rd
Carney, Christopher P., Pennsylvania, 10th Carson, André, Indiana, 7th
Carter, John, Texas, 31st Castle, Michael N., Delaware, At Large
Castor, Kathy, Florida, 11th Cazayoux, Don, Louisiana, 6th
Chabot, Steve, Ohio, 1st Chandler, Ben, Kentucky, 6th
Childers, Travis, Mississippi, 1st Christian-Christensen, Donna M., U.S. Virgin Islands
Clarke, Yvette D., New York, 11th Clay Jr., William "Lacy", Missouri, 1st
Cleaver, Emanuel, Missouri, 5th Clyburn, James E., South Carolina, 6th
Coble, Howard, North Carolina, 6th Cohen, Steve, Tennessee, 9th
Cole, Tom, Oklahoma, 4th Conaway, K. Michael, Texas, 11th
Conyers Jr., John, Michigan, 14th Cooper, Jim, Tennessee, 5th
Costa, Jim, California, 20th Costello, Jerry, Illinois, 12th
Courtney, Joe, Connecticut, 2nd Cramer, Robert E. "Bud", Alabama, 5th
Crenshaw, Ander, Florida, 4th Crowley, Joseph, New York, 7th
Cubin, Barbara, Wyoming, At Large Cuellar, Henry, Texas, 28th
Culberson, John, Texas, 7th Cummings, Elijah, Maryland, 7th
^ return to top
D


Davis, Artur, Alabama, 7th Davis, Danny K., Illinois, 7th
Davis, David, Tennessee, 1st Davis, Geoff, Kentucky, 4th
Davis, Lincoln, Tennessee, 4th
Davis, Susan, California, 53rd Davis, Tom, Virginia, 11th
Deal, Nathan, Georgia, 9th DeFazio, Peter, Oregon, 4th
DeGette, Diana, Colorado, 1st Delahunt, William, Massachusetts, 10th
DeLauro, Rosa L., Connecticut, 3rd Dent, Charles W., Pennsylvania, 15th
Diaz-Balart, Lincoln, Florida, 21st Diaz-Balart, Mario, Florida, 25th
Dicks, Norman D., Washington, 6th Dingell, John, Michigan, 15th
Doggett, Lloyd, Texas, 25th Donnelly, Joe, Indiana, 2nd
Doolittle, John, California, 4th Doyle, Mike, Pennsylvania, 14th
Drake, Thelma D., Virginia, 2nd Dreier, David, California, 26th
Duncan Jr., John J., Tennessee, 2nd
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E


Edwards, Chet, Texas, 17th Edwards, Donna F., Maryland, 4th
Ehlers, Vernon J., Michigan, 3rd Ellison, Keith, Minnesota, 5th
Ellsworth, Brad, Indiana, 8th Emanuel, Rahm, Illinois, 5th
Emerson, Jo Ann, Missouri, 8th Engel, Eliot, New York, 17th
English, Phil, Pennsylvania, 3rd Eshoo, Anna G., California, 14th
Etheridge, Bob, North Carolina, 2nd Everett, Terry, Alabama, 2nd
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F


Faleomavaega, Eni F. H., American Samoa Fallin, Mary, Oklahoma, 5th
Farr, Sam, California, 17th Fattah, Chaka, Pennsylvania, 2nd
Feeney, Tom, Florida, 24th Ferguson, Michael, New Jersey, 7th
Filner, Bob, California, 51st Flake, Jeff , Arizona, 6th
Forbes, J. Randy, Virginia, 4th Fortenberry, Jeff, Nebraska, 1st
Fortuno, Luis G., Puerto Rico Fossella, Vito, New York, 13th
Foster, Bill, Illinois, 14th Foxx, Virginia, North Carolina, 5th
Frank, Barney, Massachusetts, 4th Franks, Trent, Arizona, 2nd
Frelinghuysen, Rodney, New Jersey, 11th
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G


Gallegly, Elton, California, 24th Garrett, Scott, New Jersey, 5th
Gerlach, Jim, Pennsylvania, 6th Giffords, Gabrielle, Arizona, 8th
Gilchrest, Wayne, Maryland, 1st Gillibrand, Kirsten E., New York, 20th
Gingrey, Phil, Georgia, 11th
Gohmert, Louie, Texas, 1st Gonzalez, Charlie A., Texas, 20th
Goode Jr., Virgil H., Virginia, 5th Goodlatte, Bob, Virginia, 6th
Gordon, Bart, Tennessee, 6th Granger, Kay, Texas, 12th
Graves, Sam, Missouri, 6th Green, Al, Texas, 9th
Green, Gene, Texas, 29th Grijalva, Raul, Arizona, 7th
Gutierrez, Luis, Illinois, 4th
^ return to top
H


Hall, John J., New York, 19th Hall, Ralph M., Texas, 4th
Hare, Phil, Illinois, 17th Harman, Jane, California, 36th
Hastings, Alcee L., Florida, 23rd
Hastings, Doc, Washington, 4th Hayes, Robin, North Carolina, 8th
Heller, Dean, Nevada, 2nd Hensarling, Jeb, Texas, 5th
Herger, Wally, California, 2nd Herseth Sandlin, Stephanie, South Dakota, At Large
Higgins, Brian, New York, 27th Hill, Baron, Indiana, 9th
Hinchey, Maurice, New York, 22nd Hinojosa, Rubén, Texas, 15th
Hirono, Mazie K., Hawaii, 2nd Hobson, David, Ohio, 7th
Hodes, Paul W., New Hampshire, 2nd Hoekstra, Pete, Michigan, 2nd
Holden, Tim, Pennsylvania, 17th Holt, Rush, New Jersey, 12th
Honda, Mike, California, 15th Hooley, Darlene, Oregon, 5th
Hoyer, Steny H., Maryland, 5th Hulshof, Kenny, Missouri, 9th
Hunter, Duncan, California, 52nd
^ return to top
I


Inglis, Bob, South Carolina, 4th Inslee, Jay, Washington, 1st
Israel, Steve, New York, 2nd Issa, Darrell, California, 49th
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J


Jackson Jr., Jesse L., Illinois, 2nd Jackson Lee, Sheila, Texas, 18th
Jefferson, William J., Louisiana, 2nd
Johnson, Eddie Bernice, Texas, 30th Johnson, Henry C. "Hank" Jr., Georgia, 4th
Johnson, Sam, Texas, 3rd Johnson, Timothy V., Illinois, 15th
Jones, Stephanie Tubbs, Ohio, 11th Jones, Walter B., North Carolina, 3rd
Jordan, Jim, Ohio, 4th
^ return to top
K


Kagen, Steve, Wisconsin, 8th Kanjorski, Paul E., Pennsylvania, 11th
Kaptur, Marcy, Ohio, 9th Keller, Ric, Florida, 8th
Kennedy, Patrick, Rhode Island, 1st Kildee, Dale, Michigan, 5th
Kilpatrick, Carolyn, Michigan, 13th Kind, Ron, Wisconsin, 3rd
King, Pete, New York, 3rd King, Steve, Iowa, 5th
Kingston, Jack, Georgia, 1st Kirk, Mark, Illinois, 10th
Klein, Ron , Florida, 22nd Kline, John, Minnesota, 2nd
Knollenberg, Joseph , Michigan, 9th Kucinich, Dennis J., Ohio, 10th
Kuhl Jr., John R. "Randy", New York, 29th
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L


LaHood, Ray, Illinois, 18th Lamborn, Doug, Colorado, 5th
Lampson, Nick, Texas, 22nd Langevin, Jim, Rhode Island, 2nd
Larsen, Rick, Washington, 2nd
Larson, John B., Connecticut, 1st Latham, Tom, Iowa, 4th
LaTourette, Steven C., Ohio, 14th Latta, Robert E., Ohio, 5th
Lee, Barbara, California, 9th
Levin, Sander, Michigan, 12th Lewis, Jerry, California, 41st
Lewis, John, Georgia, 5th Lewis, Ron, Kentucky, 2nd
Linder, John, Georgia, 7th Lipinski, Daniel, Illinois, 3rd
LoBiondo, Frank, New Jersey, 2nd Loebsack, David, Iowa, 2nd
Lofgren, Zoe, California, 16th Lowey, Nita, New York, 18th
Lucas, Frank, Oklahoma, 3rd Lungren, Daniel E., California, 3rd
Lynch, Stephen F., Massachusetts, 9th
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M


Mack, Connie, Florida, 14th Mahoney, Tim, Florida, 16th
Maloney, Carolyn, New York, 14th Manzullo, Donald, Illinois, 16th
Marchant, Kenny, Texas, 24th Markey, Ed, Massachusetts, 7th
Marshall, Jim, Georgia, 8th Matheson, Jim, Utah, 2nd
Matsui, Doris O., California, 5th McCarthy, Carolyn, New York, 4th
McCarthy, Kevin, California, 22nd McCaul, Michael T., Texas, 10th
McCollum, Betty, Minnesota, 4th McCotter, Thaddeus, Michigan, 11th
McCrery, Jim, Louisiana, 4th McDermott, Jim, Washington, 7th
McGovern, James, Massachusetts, 3rd McHenry, Patrick T., North Carolina, 10th
McHugh, John M., New York, 23rd McIntyre, Mike, North Carolina, 7th
McKeon, Buck, California, 25th McMorris Rodgers, Cathy, Washington, 5th
McNerney, Jerry, California, 11th McNulty, Michael R., New York, 21st
Meek, Kendrick, Florida, 17th Meeks, Gregory W., New York, 6th
Melancon, Charlie, Louisiana, 3rd Mica, John, Florida, 7th
Michaud, Michael, Maine, 2nd Miller, Brad, North Carolina, 13th
Miller, Candice, Michigan, 10th Miller, Gary, California, 42nd
Miller, George, California, 7th Miller, Jeff, Florida, 1st
Mitchell, Harry E., Arizona, 5th Mollohan, Alan B., West Virginia, 1st
Moore, Dennis, Kansas, 3rd Moore, Gwen, Wisconsin, 4th
Moran, Jerry, Kansas, 1st Moran, Jim, Virginia, 8th
Murphy, Christopher S., Connecticut, 5th Murphy, Patrick J., Pennsylvania, 8th
Murphy, Tim, Pennsylvania, 18th Murtha, John, Pennsylvania, 12th
Musgrave, Marilyn, Colorado, 4th Myrick, Sue, North Carolina, 9th
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N


Nadler, Jerrold, New York, 8th Napolitano, Grace, California, 38th
Neal, Richard E., Massachusetts, 2nd Neugebauer, Randy, Texas, 19th
Norton, Eleanor Holmes, District of Columbia Nunes, Devin, California, 21st
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O


Oberstar, James L., Minnesota, 8th Obey, David R., Wisconsin, 7th
Olver, John, Massachusetts, 1st Ortiz, Solomon P., Texas, 27th
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P


Pallone Jr., Frank, New Jersey, 6th Pascrell Jr., Bill, New Jersey, 8th
Pastor, Ed , Arizona, 4th Paul, Ron, Texas, 14th
Payne, Donald M., New Jersey, 10th Pearce, Steve, New Mexico, 2nd
Pelosi, Nancy, California, 8th Pence, Mike, Indiana, 6th
Perlmutter, Ed, Colorado, 7th Peterson, Collin C., Minnesota, 7th
Peterson, John E., Pennsylvania, 5th Petri, Thomas, Wisconsin, 6th
Pickering, Charles W. "Chip", Mississippi, 3rd Pitts, Joseph R., Pennsylvania, 16th
Platts, Todd, Pennsylvania, 19th Poe, Ted, Texas, 2nd
Pomeroy, Earl, North Dakota, At Large Porter, Jon, Nevada, 3rd
Price, David, North Carolina, 4th Price, Tom, Georgia, 6th
Pryce, Deborah, Ohio, 15th Putnam, Adam, Florida, 12th
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R


Radanovich, George P., California, 19th Rahall, Nick, West Virginia, 3rd
Ramstad, Jim, Minnesota, 3rd Rangel, Charles B., New York, 15th
Regula, Ralph, Ohio, 16th Rehberg, Dennis, Montana, At Large
Reichert, David G., Washington, 8th Renzi, Rick, Arizona, 1st
Richardson, Laura, California, 37th
Reyes, Silvestre, Texas, 16th Reynolds, Thomas M., New York, 26th
Rodriguez, Ciro, Texas, 23rd Rogers, Harold, Kentucky, 5th
Rogers, Mike, Alabama, 3rd Rogers, Mike, Michigan, 8th