Government Spending Run Amuck.

[ChicagoMark]

This kind of fiscal irresponsibilty will be able to continue up to the point when it won't. That point when we will actually have to pay these debts with real wealth and not printed up Treasury notes is vastly approaching. Our "leaders" are anything but, and it doesn't matter which party they represent.

• A new housing law, signed last week, commits the government to backing some $300 billion in troubled mortgages.
• •A higher education bill adds $169 billion over the next five years.
• •The GI bill that extends education benefits to veterans or their family members will cost $62 billion over 10 years.
• •Congress boosted the statutory debt ceiling by $800 billion to $10.6 trillion. That's $4.8 trillion more than it was at the end of 2001.

Moreover, last week the White House Office of Management and Budget (OMB) projected the US budget deficit for the next fiscal year to be $482 billion, the largest deficit in US history in nominal terms.

U.S. spending obligations surge | csmonitor.com

[Servo]

Sounds good to us

Sincerely,
those that voted for Hillary, Obama, McCain, Romney, Rudy, Huckabee(and anyone else not named Ron) in the primaries

[Lochgelly]

And this is almost totally the Republicans fault...

Reagan doubled the National Deficit...but at least we got a payoff in the fall of the Iron Curtain...

Bush I also increased the deficit...and so did Clinton...but Clinton had the the budget turned around so there was a few years there where the deficit actually went down...

Then came the monster... Bush II more than doubled the deficit...now under Bush II each man women and child (if divided up pro rata) owes more than $30,000.00.

This spend like crazy while cutting taxes has almost ruined the country...and for what?

We had no "fall of the iron curtain" benefit from Bush II.

If after Bush II...if you still vote Republican...you are either a top 1 per cent-er (because they were the only group that has benefitted) or you are stupid.

The idea that the Democrats are the "tax and spend" party is an outright lie...
The Republicans are the "borrow the money from the Chinese and spend" party....and that is the undeniable truth.

All the Republicans on this Board should vote for Obama...you guys need to send a message to your party that you will not stand for turning your back on the long term policy of the Republicans...that is, being fiscally conservative.

Seriously, you should send letters to your party's Chairman...tell them you are voting for Obama and tell them they had better bring a true Goldwater fiscal conservative guy next time.

Republicans....your party has been hijacked....and I see nothing in McCain's rhetoric that indicates he will change Bush's policy of irresponsibility.

frankly, you owe it to both your kids and to your party....

fix your party

[SpartanStu]

Originally Posted by ChicagoMark

This kind of fiscal irresponsibilty will be able to continue up to the point when it won't. That point when we will actually have to pay these debts with real wealth and not printed up Treasury notes is vastly approaching. Our "leaders" are anything but, and it doesn't matter which party they represent.

• A new housing law, signed last week, commits the government to backing some $300 billion in troubled mortgages.
• •A higher education bill adds $169 billion over the next five years.
• •The GI bill that extends education benefits to veterans or their family members will cost $62 billion over 10 years.
• •Congress boosted the statutory debt ceiling by $800 billion to $10.6 trillion. That's $4.8 trillion more than it was at the end of 2001.

Moreover, last week the White House Office of Management and Budget (OMB) projected the US budget deficit for the next fiscal year to be $482 billion, the largest deficit in US history in nominal terms.

U.S. spending obligations surge | csmonitor.com

Its too easy to let all this happen.

Life today is so encompassing that what the government does is out of reach of comprehension.

Working 45-60hrs a week. Distracted by 5hrs or more a day of television. Keeping the books on water, electric, trash, internet, cable, cellphone, car payments, house payments, insurance, and credit cards. There are countless more obligations and distractions anchoring adults from keeping an eye on their government.

[DeHannen]

Originally Posted by Lochgelly

And this is almost totally the Republicans fault...

Reagan doubled the National Deficit...but at least we got a payoff in the fall of the Iron Curtain...

Bush I also increased the deficit...and so did Clinton...but Clinton had the the budget turned around so there was a few years there where the deficit actually went down...

Then came the monster... Bush II more than doubled the deficit...now under Bush II each man women and child (if divided up pro rata) owes more than $30,000.00.

This spend like crazy while cutting taxes has almost ruined the country...and for what?

We had no "fall of the iron curtain" benefit from Bush II.

If after Bush II...if you still vote Republican...you are either a top 1 per cent-er (because they were the only group that has benefitted) or you are stupid.

The idea that the Democrats are the "tax and spend" party is an outright lie...
The Republicans are the "borrow the money from the Chinese and spend" party....and that is the undeniable truth.

All the Republicans on this Board should vote for Obama...you guys need to send a message to your party that you will not stand for turning your back on the long term policy of the Republicans...that is, being fiscally conservative.

Seriously, you should send letters to your party's Chairman...tell them you are voting for Obama and tell them they had better bring a true Goldwater fiscal conservative guy next time.

Republicans....your party has been hijacked....and I see nothing in McCain's rhetoric that indicates he will change Bush's policy of irresponsibility.

frankly, you owe it to both your kids and to your party....

fix your party

But what is the alternative? Do you think the DEMS are going to stop spending if Obama is elected?

The whole mindset of the majority of American people is give me free education, give me free health care, give me free retirement.....the list goes on.

The top 1% already pay 40% of the taxes. The top 10% pays 75% of income taxes.

This country has to stop spending, period.

[ChicagoMark]

All this fiscal irresponsibility has brought us to this point: China now owns us and is dictating US fiscal policy from Beijing. Some of my favorite blogs are lit up like Christmas talking about this. The outrage has hit a new level among those who are aware and follow the decline of the US. Unfortunately, like SpartanStu mentioned, most don't care their sovereignty is being sold. They are just trying to live day to day. And the ones who have money and can fight, don't because all they care about is more money.

Isn't it nice to have a front row seat to the decline and fall of one of the world's greatest empires.

Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis: US Blackmailed By China?

FLASH: Now We Know - There WAS A Threat - The Market Ticker

[DeHannen]

Originally Posted by ChicagoMark

All this fiscal irresponsibility has brought us to this point: China now owns us and is dictating US fiscal policy from Beijing. Some of my favorite blogs are lit up like Christmas talking about this. The outrage has hit a new level among those who are aware and follow the decline of the US. Unfortunately, like SpartanStu mentioned, most don't care their sovereignty is being sold. They are just trying to live day to day. And the ones who have money and can fight, don't because all they care about is more money.

Isn't it nice to have a front row seat to the decline and fall of one of the world's greatest empires.

Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis: US Blackmailed By China?

FLASH: Now We Know - There WAS A Threat - The Market Ticker

So why has the US dollar found a bottom, gold is tanking, and commodities are acid?

[Lochgelly]

Originally Posted by DeHannen

But what is the alternative? Do you think the DEMS are going to stop spending if Obama is elected?

The whole mindset of the majority of American people is give me free education, give me free health care, give me free retirement.....the list goes on.

The top 1% already pay 40% of the taxes. The top 10% pays 75% of income taxes.

This country has to stop spending, period.

I hear you...and all I can say is that in the last three years of Clinton, there was a budget surplus.

Also, Bush II was WAY BEYOND COMPARE.....his deficits dwarfed all of the previous Presidents combined ....

think about that for a second....200 plus years to create a debt...then BAM!

double it in less than 8 years...

As for Obama...I do think he will do better than McCain...he probably won't balance the budget...but I do think he will have less of a deficit than McCain.

[DeHannen]

Originally Posted by Lochgelly

I hear you...and all I can say is that in the last three years of Clinton, there was a budget surplus.

Also, Bush II was WAY BEYOND COMPARE.....his deficits dwarfed all of the previous Presidents combined ....

think about that for a second....200 plus years to create a debt...then BAM!

double it in less than 8 years...

As for Obama...I do think he will do better than McCain...he probably won't balance the budget...but I do think he will have less of a deficit than McCain.

A Republican Pres and Congress continued the mess, a Dem Pres and Congress will make it worse. A lot worse. The talking point will be, "well we are going to raise taxes to cover these increases in spending." Then, when the actual TAX REVENUE starts to disappear, the deficits will go parabolic.

[ming]

Originally Posted by DeHannen

A Republican Pres and Congress continued the mess, a Dem Pres and Congress will make it worse. A lot worse. The talking point will be, "well we are going to raise taxes to cover these increases in spending." Then, when the actual TAX REVENUE starts to disappear, the deficits will go parabolic.

This has been debated ad nauseam before. But what evidence do you have that Democrats would make the deficit worse? We already have all the evidence we need that the GOP (with Dem assistance) has created this mess... and then doubled it.

I agree that the Democrats don't seem to be taking the national debt as seriously as they should and there is a good chance that they may continue down this same path if Obama is elected, but we know for certain that GOP leadership is fiscally irresponsible based on the last 30 years.

[ChicagoMark]

Originally Posted by DeHannen

So why has the US dollar found a bottom, gold is tanking, and commodities are acid?

All temporary. This could end up being the last ditch effort of a dying financial cartel to manipulate prices on a day when the FOMC chose to keep rates unchanged.

We are now at a fantastic buying point for precious metals. There may be some minor downside yet, but it is time to load the boat! I personally made a big buy in silver and a small buy in UNG (nat gas) and will be very well positioned for the coming financial/$USD collapse starting this fall.

People...you have 3 weeks to a month to prepare!

[danb]

Originally Posted by DeHannen

But what is the alternative? Do you think the DEMS are going to stop spending if Obama is elected?

The whole mindset of the majority of American people is give me free education, give me free health care, give me free retirement.....the list goes on.

The top 1% already pay 40% of the taxes. The top 10% pays 75% of income taxes.

This country has to stop spending, period.

The top 10% also pays about 3 times the tax rate as the bottom 10% too. The top 10% also represents less than half of the national AGI as well.

But it's not enough. It won't be enough even if redistribution equalizes incomes. At that point they will justify taking more of the claimed incomes from the evil rich and giving to their favored victim groups because the evil rich hide most of their billions from the government. So although it may look like they don't have as much money, they actually have more.

This will never end.

[DeHannen]

Originally Posted by ming

This has been debated ad nauseam before. But what evidence do you have that Democrats would make the deficit worse? We already have all the evidence we need that the GOP (with Dem assistance) has created this mess... and then doubled it.

I agree that the Democrats don't seem to be taking the national debt as seriously as they should and there is a good chance that they may continue down this same path if Obama is elected, but we know for certain that GOP leadership is fiscally irresponsible based on the last 30 years.

Ming, of the last thirty years, the DEMS controlled Congress and APPROPRIATIONS for 18 of those years. And in everyone of those years the deficit went higher than the previous year. The Republicans controlled Congress for twelve years. From '94 to 2000 they did an average job of keeping spending in check. You have to remember that the Treasury was filling its coffers from the capital gain taxes on the dot com BUBBLE. So spending was still increasing, but the tax revenues were outpacing the spending which allowed for the budget deficit to be reduced and actually eliminated at one point. All by a Republican Congress, Not DEM.

In 2001, some idiot in the WH known as "the architect" thought the Republicans could hold on to power by spending outlandishly. This doctrine was a complete failure.

Again, history shows that DEMS cannot restrain themselves from spending. Who do you think invented baseline budgeting: The DEMS.

[ming]

Originally Posted by DeHannen

Ming, of the last thirty years, the DEMS controlled Congress and APPROPRIATIONS for 18 of those years. And in everyone of those years the deficit went higher than the previous year. The Republicans controlled Congress for twelve years. From '94 to 2000 they did an average job of keeping spending in check. You have to remember that the Treasury was filling its coffers from the capital gain taxes on the dot com BUBBLE. So spending was still increasing, but the tax revenues were outpacing the spending which allowed for the budget deficit to be reduced and actually eliminated at one point. All by a Republican Congress, Not DEM.

In 2001, some idiot in the WH known as "the architect" thought the Republicans could hold on to power by spending outlandishly. This doctrine was a complete failure.

Again, history shows that DEMS cannot restrain themselves from spending. Who do you think invented baseline budgeting: The DEMS.

Authorized and appropriated by Congress based on the President's submitted budget. The President sets the tone of the budget and has veto power over any Congressional budget resolutions. When it comes to budget responsibility the President is #1.

Congress is a close #2 and was at the very least complicit but more accurately a strong force in overspending and under taxing which has led us to where we are now. There is plenty of blame to go around on both sides.

My point is regarding the MYTH of GOP fiscal responsibility that is continually perpetuated. There is no evidence to support this myth and Republicans, of all people, should be outraged at the behavior of their own party if they are intellectually honest about it.

[DeHannen]

Originally Posted by ming

Authorized and appropriated by Congress based on the President's submitted budget. The President sets the tone of the budget and has veto power over any Congressional budget resolutions. When it comes to budget responsibility the President is #1.

Congress is a close #2 and was at the very least complicit but more accurately a strong force in overspending and under taxing which has led us to where we are now. There is plenty of blame to go around on both sides.

My point is regarding the MYTH of GOP fiscal responsibility that is continually perpetuated. There is no evidence to support this myth and Republicans, of all people, should be outraged at the behavior of their own party if they are intellectually honest about it.

First your premise that the President controls the budget is inaccurate.
Second of all, if you are referring the the REPUB Congress from 2000-2006, ok. And yes I was livid that they were going along with the spending increases for the facts I previously stated.

When the R took control of Congress in '94 they were fiscally conservative. But when the Republicans tried to cut spending in 1998, Clinton shut down the government by refusing to sign the spending bill. Again, R trying to be more responsible than Clinton. Clinton won the popularity contest and the deficit started to rise again.

But more to your original point: The real myth is that somehow the DEMS are going to balance the budget once they gain control of Congress and the Presidency is laughable and in NO WAY based on ANY historical reference.

[Lochgelly]

Originally Posted by DeHannen

First your premise that the President controls the budget is inaccurate.
Second of all, if you are referring the the REPUB Congress from 2000-2006, ok. And yes I was livid that they were going along with the spending increases for the facts I previously stated.

When the R took control of Congress in '94 they were fiscally conservative. But when the Republicans tried to cut spending in 1998, Clinton shut down the government by refusing to sign the spending bill. Again, R trying to be more responsible than Clinton. Clinton won the popularity contest and the deficit started to rise again.

But more to your original point: The real myth is that somehow the DEMS are going to balance the budget once they gain control of Congress and the Presidency is laughable and in NO WAY based on ANY historical reference.

Your stuck in this notion of Goldwater Fiscal Conservatism....

Geesh dude...wake up !

That hasn't existed since Ford was President.

If there was a Ford-type "Goldwater Conservative" that was pro-environment...I'd vote Republican.

But it simply is not so...the Republicans cut taxes for the richest 1 percent and then borrowed the money from the Chinese....

[ChicagoMark]

Democrats Tax and Spend; Republicans Borrow and Spend. Pick your poison (though I believe tax and spend is less immoral because it doesn't push the burden on to a future generation who didn't have a vote.)

George Will said years ago that it doesn't matter which party is in charge, spending never changes. The only thing that changes is the partisan nature of the pork.

[SpartanStu]

Its time to stop pointing fingers across the isle here.

Raise your hand and admit both major parties are great at spending money that they shouldnt.

Now, ask youself what are our alternatives to not let this happen again...

They are all tough options.

Embrace an existing 3rd party.
Create a new 3rd party.
take the time to give an intervention to stupid Americans who dont realize our situation.

or

convince your neighbors to get their guns and revolt.

We are insane to keep doing what we have done, and expect a different result.

[DeHannen]

Originally Posted by SpartanStu

Its time to stop pointing fingers across the isle here.

Raise your hand and admit both major parties are great at spending money that they shouldnt.

Now, ask youself what are our alternatives to not let this happen again...

They are all tough options.

Embrace an existing 3rd party.
Create a new 3rd party.
take the time to give an intervention to stupid Americans who dont realize our situation.

or

convince your neighbors to get their guns and revolt.

We are insane to keep doing what we have done, and expect a different result.

If the US gets anywhere near where CMark thinks we are headed, the revolt will be in 2010.

[GRR Spartan]

Golly Mark, I have no problem with the spending for education or GI benefits. The current administration has had no problems throwing money defense contractors.

Had the free market folks actually thought about oversight 6-7 years ago we would not have seen a housing boom brought on by bad paper.

Time to raise taxes back to Clinton levels since the last 6-7 years of tax cutting have had a opposite effect of what the dreaded tax increases Clinton proposed brought. All that was higher employment and higher government revenues, lower deficits.

[Cym Jim]

Is it just me, or does the cliche "run amuck" (or run amok?) amuse anyone else?

It's also a pretty safe bet that whenever someone uses it, I can safely assume that I should stop listening.

Maybe it just reminds me of my father . . .